Yo yo!! Calling all Ladybros over 30 TTC #1. Join the Berries aboard the Charabanc of lurrrve. Bring real Champagne, from the actual Champagne region. No Colombian builders allowed.

[happylass]

The small print:

The Berries have strict entrance criteria: TTC #1 for 12 months+, over 30, NO instadiffers, must have a special pimping pot and absolutely no mention of baby dust/dancing. Not that we're fussy

Current passengers

WildflowerMarmalade 40 - TTC for three years. FET done in June with immune treatments - waiting for result... Six embryos in the freezer after two freeze all cycles.

Minx 35 in August - TTC 2 years. Stage 4 endometriosis, both tubes blocked, 1 buried ovary, IVF booking in appt in July, hoping to start IVF soon after

Smidge 39, TTC since Jan '13. Unexplained. IVF#1 Short protocol July '14 BFN, IVF#2 Nov'14 and IVF#3 Feb '15 both Long protocol BFNs. High NK cell immune treatment. Natural FET in June '15, awaiting result.

Happylass, 37, TTC since Aug 2012. 2 failed ICSI cycles and 1 failed FET. Hoping to start long awaited NHS cycles in late August provided pesky smear test is sorted by then.

Beaky 35, ttc coming up 3 yrs, 2x failed iui 1x long protocol ivf cancelled 1 BFN following IVF

Tigerdog, 34 (soon to be 35) TTC since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF#1 May 2015 resulted in a chemical pregnancy. Now transferring clinics in the hope of a second round of IVF on the NHS and considering an NK cells biopsy in July/August.

barkingtreefrog 36, ttc 3.5 years. clomid bfp summer 2013 then mc @7 weeks, iui bfp summer 2014 then mc @6 weeks. Factor V leiden thrombophilia diagnosed at the repeat mc clinic. IUI bfn Jan 2015, IVF bfn April/May 2015. Currently awaiting nk cells results before a FET possibly in August/September.

Lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 2011, unexplained, two IVF cycles in 2014, both bfns, waiting for lap&dye and results of numerous bloods, aiming for one last IVF cycle.

Kuma - 40. TTC 2.5 years. Low AMH high FSH - DH antisperm ABs. Failed IVF June 14 and March 15. Looking to change clinic and try another natural cycle in June 2015.

Lucieloos, 35, TTC 18 months, low AMH & sperm motility. 1st ICSI in Czech Republic in April BFN.

Rain, 33 ttc since March 2012. unexplained. mystery bfp oct 13, MMC Nov 13. NHS IVF starting in June

Ha Spare! Love the moustachio pic

mmm hula hoops. Can't remember the last time I had a hula hoop spare. I had another blast from the past the other day when I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about snakebite blacks. No idea why. I genuinely used to believe they were illegal. What a numpty.

Sorry you're feeling so down, tiger. All I can say is that there are troughs, but they do pass. With gin. Not very helpful when you're in the middle of one, but still. have you got holidays coming up?

beaky no idea. Anyone's guess. Awaiting paperwork. Be quite ironic if I got a FUFC this month as it would be not covered by mat leave. (hollow laugh - AS IF). Sounds like you had a bad reaction to your anaesthetic - what did the anaethestist say? they should be able to manage that (Mr nol is anaesthetist)

lucie that’s really helpful, thanks. I’m still waiting for my clinic to tell me what drugs and doses I’ll be on.

spare wow, loving the mustachioed baby , and like the sound of post EC hula hoops snacking.

tiger, oh no, hope that the gloom lifts soon.

beaky that sounds like a horrible experience. Maybe you could ask the clinic to speak to the anaesthetist in advance to see if they can use different drugs or lower the dose a little? And you can also have some anti-gloom .

nolly, snakebite and black…? Ah, the good ole days before alcopops were invented….

I don't think it's completely bonkers that you thought that about snakebite nolly - there was defintely some rule that pubs used to cite when they refused to mix the drink up, not sure if it was against the law as such. Takes me back to indie nights as a teen! Has cheered me up thinking about it!

Gazebo of gloom sounds perfect beaky. I see us looking like we're trying to enjoy a really crap BBQ in the pouring rain! Don't blame you for wanting to avoid being so ill after sedation - they must be able to manage it better!

Thanks sesame, I have cheered up a bit.

Now I've booked the biopsy I'm wondering if I'm mad to do it, and having second thoughts. My acu lady suggested it, but no medical professional has indicated that they think it a good idea. £360 seems like a lot of money to spend on something unproven...any thoughts?!

Oh the irony if you did Nolly! I hope you do. Your paperwork seems to be taking ages. When do you/have you started the new job? We used to have snakebite/diesel! I think it was really strong so some bars wouldn't serve it! I don't know if it was anasthetic but it was definitely the sedative I took which made me really woozy. I can't even take codeine without being sick.

Tiger and in our gloomy gazebo, sure we aren't cooking the BBQ in this weather! Re your biopsy, I don't see the harm in it and it acts in the same way as a scratch I've heard. Have you had any other immunes testing at all? Maybe the new clinic will give you some immune meds on an empirical basis. Can you cancel it if you change your mind after you've had your consultation next week?

Sesame are you getting told your dosage/meds at your baseline scan? The consultant did say I could try a different sedative but I really don't want to end up like that again.

Beaky could you try snakebite to knock yourself out before EC? You are brave to even consider having EC without sedation. The others are right that it is worth speaking to the anaesthetist to see if they can offer an alternative.

I love the idea of the gazebo of gloom - and Tiger's description of it as a really crap BBQ. Barbecue's are generally underwhelming in this country, to my mind.

Not sure what to say ref the NK cells biopsy Tiger. Maybe ask yourself what information you would want to have if you had to go for a private round? Would you want to have tests for NK cells before spending money on a private round - and would you go for the biopsy or for the full immunes Chicago testing (think it costs about £700). It might help you think through whether you would end up spending the money on th test at a later date. If you would then I reckon you just bite the bullet now. Knowledge is power and you might get info which will help make this coming round a success. In which case it will be money well spent. Hope I'm helping!

Lucie that is great news that your follicles are all nicely bunched together. It seems as if all your research could be paying off for this round. When is your next scan?

Great work on the moustachioed baby Spare.

I'm doing fine. I'm finally off most of the drugs. So glad to be done with all those injections.

Wild yes, snakebite first may work, or I might just end up vomiting again anyway glad to hear you are nearly off all of the drugs and that your doing well! Are you 12 weeks yet?

tiger great advice from wild there, I'd go with that. Hope you're feeling ok today, I'm still under our gloomy gazebo and disliking a lot of people today for some reason!

Minx any sign of af?

So just wanted to give the full update from our FC meeting yesterday.
I asked him about a billion questions and this is the summary in no particular order..! Sorry in advance for the mamouth post...

Should I have a scratch - No harm in having one, but there isn't much evidence that they help. A small study in Israel showed some benefit, but they haven't been able to replicate the findings in bigger studies. If I want one, I can have one.
Intralipids - not proven but no real risk so happy to do one a few days before EC and then just after a BFP
Embryo glue - Recommended. There is more evidence for this than any of the other empirical treatments
Prednisoline - Evidence that taking it during pregnancy is harmful and could lead to miscarriage, but a low dose for a few days around transfer is very low risk and could be helpful
Vitamins - yes to high dose antioxidents for both, including CoQ10. DHEA is unproven but some clinics like it. Folic acid as early as possible for me.
Edometrial window biopsy - Some women have a lining that is out of sync with OV, and the window in which it is receptive for implantation 'closes' too early and transfers don't work. There is a biopsy that can be done for £1200, and around 20% of women who have had 3 failed implantations will come back with an abnormal result. I can have it if I want, but having had one successful implantation previously suggests I'm not likely to have an abnormal result.
Dosage - Because I'm older than last time (thanks FC!) and heavier (double thanks!), they want to keep me on the same drugs and dose, and think I'll have a lower response. They want to target 6-12 eggs and will adjust the dosage if they need to. Should know more when the AMH result comes back today but 125 Gonal F plus cetrotide
Frozen vs Fresh - as long as my oestrogen levels don't get above 8000, they'll do a fresh transfer. They know there are proven risks with fresh transfers and high oestrogen, but there isn't much evidence about lower levels. There is currently a big study underway from the university of Aberdeen which will report back in 5 years on the differences from fresh vs frozen in terms of success rates and also health of the baby and mother.

ICSI - we should try PICSI, which is icsi in which part of the petri dish is coated in the same substance that eggs release as a signal to sperm to come and find them. This means that as well as just picking out the ones that look best, the lab can also pick the ones that have made an effort to swim towards the 'hot spot' as this indicates they will be more normal and have less DNA fragmentation.

So the plan: Go in on day 2 (which I think will be 24th August) for a baseline scan to check for antral count and make sure there aren't any cysts. If all is well, I can pick up the drugs and start. Gulp!

beaky I hope they can work out a better pain management solution for you - being sick for a week doesn't sound like it will be helpful at all. I've never had to be sedated/anesthetised for anything before, so can't offer any helpful advice!
I'm totally with you and tiger in the gazebo of gloom on the work front. I am in the awkward position at the moment of loving where I work but not really enjoying my job. Trouble is I'm not sure how much of that is just down to the fact that I am currently so pre-occupied with all this shit! I totally get what you're both saying about just wanting the simple domestic life.

spare I hope your consultation went well? I think I missed the origins of these moustache pics, but they are brilliant! Our clinic walls are festooned with baby photos, so on the assumption that's where yours are coming from I am imagining you surreptitiously taking photos in clinic corridors .

tiger I don't know much about NK theory. What are the indicators for it being a potential cause? Do you/your clinic agree that you meet some/all of them? It is a lot of money, but then like wild says, compared to the cost of a full private round maybe it is better to look at it now.

I tend to be a bit ostrichy about things like NK cells/hidden infections - I have a tendency towards assuming the worst and I know if I start reading up on some of these newer theories I'm going to end up convinced I have everything wrong with me!

sesame I am sure the scratch will be just as good as the last one, maybe you felt it less because you knew what to expect this time? When do you find out your drugs/doses?

nol snakebite black! Brings back memories of making inappropriate decisions at bars and puking over garden walls! I do like wilds idea of booze as an EC sedative tho! . When does the new job start?

Went for my baseline scan this morning, all looking fine - my ovaries are 'quiet' (I've never known them to be especially noisy). I'll be on 225iu of Menopur, back in one week to see how I'm responding.
Is it very common to have your dosage changed during treatment? Not sure what to expect from this point on - how quickly do you start getting side effects from stims (if you get them at all)? I feel so clueless compared to some of you lot!

xpost spare - So I'm assuming you're not going to go for the scratch this time as you're aiming to start in a couple of weeks? Hopefully you won't need to revisit that idea!
Never heard of PICSI, but sounds very sensible in theory, stands to reason you want the ones that know which way to go!

rain
I'm not planning on a scratch, because I want to get started asap.
If for any reason they find a cyst/something isn't right at the day 2 scan, and they decide to abandon the cycle, then I might have the biopsy, because it also doubles up as a scratch. Stupid amount of money though

Oo Spare that's really helpful, thank you! I am going to ask for embryo glue now too. I don't even know if my clinic do it as I meant to ask at my wtf appointment but got sidetracked. Interesting re picis too, I've seen that offered on the abroad private clinic sites but didn't really know what it was. That's great that you can start so early too. Will you be short/antagonist protocol? That is a lot of money for the biopsy like hopefully you won't need it at all.

Rain I know what you mean about being preoccupied. I think I would have moved on from current job by now if it wasn't for ttc too. So I am a bit resentful and bored! The moustachio baby pics came about because minx and I have a long long corridor to get into the FC which is just all pictures of babies. So Minx bravely started moustaching the babies and I think it should def be a berry thing. I was most definitely looking creepy/suspicious as hell taking my moustache pictures! My dh even offered to help to get some twinnies! Re your stims, everyone one is different and so it totally depends on your response as to whether you need your meds increased or not. I had mine increased due to a low response the first time but then the second I was on max gonal f anyway. From what I remember I started feeling more "all over the place" with stims, reasonably quickly after starting them but it wasn't too bad. Are you still getting headaches? Hopefully they will stop ASAP. Exciting times for Rain on the YBR!

spare that sounds like you really got the most out of your appointment and really good news that you can get going so soon! Are you taking any other anti-oxidants/vits in addition to CoQ10? And do you take standard dose Folic Acid or extra? Interesting position that your clinic takes about scratch – I chose to do it as I’ve read studies that say otherwise although my clinic still didn’t recommend as they just say I’m too old and have crap eggs. Btw IVF has also made me fatter…

beaky to add an extra tuppence on anaesthetic – when I went through EC I got given 2 drugs, one was the sedative, the other was the painkiller which was morphine based. If you say you that normal painkillers containing codeine (also morphine based) make you sick, this could be related and you may have had a reaction to the painkiller part rather than sedative. I think it’s important that the anaesthetist knows this beforehand, and you should ask for your clinic to take this into account.

tiger about spending extra money on supplementary treatments/investigations. I’m self-funding my cycles. There’s only a limited number of cycles I can put my body through or pay for. And I would like to ensure that each go has the maximum chance of success. I would therefore be prepared to spend a few hundred pounds on an additional treatment if I thought that might increase the chance of success. But this would only be if I can satisfy myself that there is a good scientific evidence for the intervention.

rain, congratulations on your quiet ovaries. When I started Menopur, it made me feel better as it made my DR headaches go away. As I got much nearer EC I got a lot of bloating and got a bit achy around my ovaries and couldn’t wear anything tight around my middle.

Hi wild how are the twinz? Have you had your 12 week scan?

Today, I feel like I need to go hide in tiger and beaky’s gloomy gazebo. I just spoke to clinic and I’m still no clearer on protocol or drugs. I won’t know till next week now and I have to keep taking the pills until then. I actually got quite upset when the nurse called me earlier. If I’m going to keep going, I really need to feel that I have some control over this cycle and that’s not happening right now.

Yay wild nice to see you and glad all is going well! Must feel good to get off all those Injections. My next scan is tomorrow morning and I'm really scared. It's normally this one where is all goes wrong so I'm expecting either half the follicles are not growing or have disappeared!

Spare that's an interesting consultation they you had. I was told that there is very little evidence that embryo glue makes any difference and the only evidence is from the actual manufacturer. I used it once but won't use it again.

Also my UK consultant told me there is a big study going on about fresh vs frozen at the moment and the results will be out around January but she expects that even the NHS will move to only frozen transfers before long as more and more evidence is showing it not only increases success rate but is actually better for the health of the baby too.

sesame
The clinic did 2 scratches on me before! He said there is no harm in it, and he was happy to do another one if I wanted to, but that he isn't convinced by the evidence enough to suggest I do one.

In terms of vitamins, I'm taking a pregnacare multivit, because I had some left over and they have high doses of Folic acid, plus 1000mg of vitamin c, an omega 3 with vitamin E capsule, 400mg of Co-10 and some selenium. DH is taking all that, but a male fertility one instead of pregnacare...
We read a few online articles before going to Holland and Barrett, and took the median doses that they all recommended, so hopefully we aren't too far off with any other them!

Hi spare, thanks for sharing your list, it sounds like I’m on the right track. I’ve never taken a pregnancy vit, but I do take Folic Acid, vit D, Zinc, Iron (cos of low levels in the past), and B complex, all arranged neatly in a muji pill case . I’ve just started myself on 600mg CoQ10 (including vit E) and Omega 3. I should have high vit C in my diet already, but some of my new tablets contain extra.

Good luck for tomorrow lucie, are you planning to fly to Czech for EC?

Yes providing my scan goes well tomorrow morning I'm booked to fly to Czech on Friday evening. I'm really looking forward to it and so hope that I can go!

Good luck tomorrow lucie! I think ref. what different clinics/consultants recommend or don't recommend for 'add ons' (can't think of an easier way to describe it!), the only thing we can really all agree on for sure is that very few of them agree with each other!! Our clinic are emphatic proponents of embryo glue and use it as standard but then they don't really think much of scratches but, like spares clinic, will do them if requested.

The fresh v frozen argument is interesting. I remember looking at a chart stuck to the wall at our clinic that showed their success rates by age group split by fresh/frozen and if I remember correctly it seemed to favour fresh slightly (for my age group anyway), but of course that's a very small subset of all IVF patients!
Obviously, in my case, fresh is going to be the winner and that's all I care about!

beaky that is hilarious! Our clinic has too many people wandering around, if I tried to sneak a moustache pic I think I'd be carted off! I might try and do a crafty one at some point if I feel brave enough, there was one fat little dark haired baby crying out for a Tom Selleck number!

sesame sorry you're still stuck waiting. I struggle with lack of control too, it's crappy having no influence over this bollocks.

Evening Ladybros! Just checking in quickly to let you know I'm still here and rooting for you all. Can't read back too far on my phone as the wifi isn't great here. Thinking of all those stabbing away at present.
Lucie all the very best for your trip to Prague.
Spare great to hear things are moving for you - looks like we'll be cycling around the same time (provided my bloody smear situation is sorted). Thanks for sharing the feedback from your appt - very interesting to hear a different opinion. My private FC used Embryo Glue but I'm not sure about the NHS.
Hope everyone else is doing ok and having a good week

In between reading 33 job applications this evening, I managed to research Selenium. I eat about 30g of nuts each day, so no need for supplementation and no chance of a deficiency. Although now I’m starting to worry about brazil nut toxicity…

With my geek hat on I can add that there is randomised control trial evidence that compounds containing hyaluronic acid – i.e. embryo glue – increase clinical pregnancy and live birth rates. My first clinic used it as standard. My current clinic think it’s pish but don’t mind charging me 250 quid if I still want to use it.

Waves to happy, hope you’re having fun!

Sesame I didn't even think of that! I just asked dh what I had and I was given sedatives, painkillers, anti sickness(!!) and antibiotics. I can't really remember much as I felt off my head. I'm definitely going to speak to them about it. Love that you've done so much work and still managed a ton of research! Sorry you are feeling so stressed at the mo, come in to the gloomy gazebo and have a hug. I hope you get the info on your new protocol ASAP. Also thanks for the additional info on embryo glue, I think I will ask about it.

Rain my clinic also have a higher fresh transfer success rate, and the way I look at fresh v frozen for me personally is because of my v.low egg numbers it isn't worth the risk of loosing the eggs in the freeze/unfreeze process. Also my clinic said no when I asked about it for those reasons. I would totally go for a frozen cycle if I could get to one though! Totally expecting a Tom Selleck baby moustache pic from you now!

Happy I hope you're enjoying an amazing holiday with plenty of cocktails and sun!

Lucie very best of luck for the scan tomorrow, let us know how you get on. I'll keep everything crossed for you.

Wishing you lots of luck for the scan today lucie!

I think it is getting quite jolly in our gazebo of gloom beaky now that there are a few of us here! Hope you're ok and work isn't too bad. I've got a few days off so at least can get away from it all for a few days. Same shit will still be here when I get back though. Come on in sesame, the lack of control is the worst. I hope the clinic give you some insight into the next steps soon.

I had my dosage changed rain. I started on 150 but my left side was a bit slow and my right ovary was high and they were concerned that it might be out of reach (which wasn't an issue at all in the end) so they upped me to 225 then to 300. Personally, I now think that was unecessary. Are you listening to the catching rainbows tracks? I liked downregging one about calming and quietening your ovaries - made me think of Christmas morning for some reason - y'know, the quiet before the excitement sort of thing?! I have everything tightly crossed for you.

Hmmm, good considerations about the biopsy. Problem is the evidence is limited, if NK cells are found to be raised then I think the outcome is a prescription for steroids, which some clinics would give anyway. I think I will discuss it with my FC next week and see what they say. rain I'm tempted by it because I never get ill, and have autoimmune disorders in immediate family. Plus I got pregnant after ivf and it didn't stick around. Not sure if that stacks up clinically but in some ways I just need to feel like I'm doing something!

Re vitamins, I (should but forget to) take zita west vitafem and I will also add the boost ones in the run up to IVF. I find mixing and matching a bit stressful so a combined tablet feels a bit easier. I've also added the zita omega and 200mg Coq10 as ubiquinol. I have experimented with other combos but to no avail. I have recently been taking vitex and another herb - ladies mantle - in drop form, and have seen a real improvement to my periods in my last two cycles - much less heavy and painful and fewer clots. It's all such a gamble though. Who knows what works?!

happy hope you're having an amazing holiday and you get the go ahead to start when you get back.

Thanks for the useful update spare and good that you can get started soon. Neither the scratch or glue was offered at my clinic.

Saw a friend last night who is struggling to conceive a second baby - two miscarriages and an ectopic. I really feel for them - first baby was an instadiff so the struggles are new for them. And was hit by another pg announcement. Sigh.

Well had the scan and confirmed that I definitely don't like that lady! There were 4 on each side on my first scan. She had a quick look today and says I can see one on the right and 2 on the left. I started panicking and said I can't believe this has happened again and they have disappeared. Dh says not to panic and asked her if she could have another look. So she has another look on the left can't see anything, pushes down on my stomach and said oh there's a few hiding behind your bowel so she found the 4 on the left. Went back on the right side and even I could see there were clearly 3 there. She couldn't see the 4th one though but I don't trust her judgement at all. When we came out dh said the reason he said not to panic was when she said she could only see one on the right he could clearly see 2 or 3 there. He doesn't think she measured them very well either and said he wouldn't be surprised if they are actually a couple of mm bigger than she has said. I was frantic when she said only 3 as we would have had to cancel again. I am happier with 7 but some of them are still quite small unless she hasn't measured them right as some are now smaller than day 7?! On day 7 I had...

L: 10,9,8,7
R: 10,10,10,6

And today I have..

L: 15,14,12,10
R: 15,9,8

So the left side all appear to be there and have grown but there's one missing from the right and the 9mm was probably a 10mm on day 7 so not sure what is going on there.

I emailed my Czech doctor who wanted to trigger me on Saturday but I feel like this is too soon and won't really give the smaller ones time to catch up enough. The 15mm aren't that big and I'm sure they would be ok for a few more days. We have agreed I will have another scan at in Czech on Saturday morning and then decide on trigger from there. So as it is I'm off to Czech tomorrow. I don't really have a great feeling about it all but it doesn't look like my body will produce a lot more so will have to go and see.

hi everyone, sorry I've been so quiet for the last week, but this 2nd round of clomid side effects, has really been kicking my arse ...very annoying, as I didn't have any side effects with the fisrt round. I've had really bad (near migrane) type headaches since last week, and hot flushes on and off, since I took this round of the tablets (at least I know what to expect during menopause now

so I've been trying to spend as little time as possible looking at laptop and phone screens, as it wasn't helping my head. thankfully I think I am over the worst of it now. but it means I am sooo behind on where everyone is.

lucie what a pain to have someone whose judgement you don't trust scanning you (I def. pick up a bit of an indifferent vibe from my fertility nurse..weird, given the profession they are in).

think I may join those of you in the gazebo of doom (given how I've been for the past week, not feeling very positive about anything at the moment

having scanned through some of the recent posts, I see a lot of talk about vitamins/supplements that people are on. just a general question to everyone....what supplements do you think I should be on given where I am in my fertility journey (or what are the options, so that I can decide). I am currently on the pregnacare conception tablets (dh is on the men's version of it). but thats it. can't stop thinking about the fact using clomid can affect ewcm, and wondering if any supplements would help that.

hope everyone else is okay, hopefully I'll catch up by the weekend.

lucie
That's great news, and glad they found those sneaky hiding follies. Keeping everything crossed for the little ones to catch up…

Berries, please help my fraying nerves… I phoned the GP yesterday to see if she had heard anything about our NHS funding transfer request, and she said she hadn't, but to call the CCG directly and ask them. I just did, and they said they have made a decision, and the letter will be posted out today, but they can't tell me over the phone, so I'll have to wait for the letter to arrive. How on EARTH can I wait?!
This is driving me a bit mad…

In other news, I've been feeling a bit weird for the last few days. A bit of googling makes me think I'm reacting to CQ-10, so I'm going to have to really cut the dose, or come off it. Has anyone else had this?