Roll up! Roll up! Mount those uni cycles and shake those pom poms. The Elderberry Pavlovas are drumming away in the hope of a Christmas clusterdiff (Thread 24).

[happylass]

The smallprint –
Berries have a strict entrance criteria (TTC #1, over 30, TTC for 12+ months, NO instadiffers, must have a special pot and definitely no mention of baby dust or baby dancing).
Those not abiding by the rules may be escorted from the premises.

The roll of honour:

Gillster 40, TTC Feb 2012, IVF Feb 2014 resulting in 6 frozen one day embies. No transfer due to polyp. Failed FET cycle in September due to polyps. Starting 2nd FET cycle on 4 Nov.
Happylass 36, TTC since Aug 2012. Antibodies in DH's sperm. 1 unsuccessful cycle of ICSI September '14. Starting cycle 2 in January.
Smidge, 38, TTC since Jan 2013. Unexplained. IVF#1 Short protocol July 2014 yielded 1 blasto, BFN. IVF#2 in process - Long Protocol Oct/Nov 2014
Serenity 34 TTC Jan 2013, unexplained infertility, DH has textbook super sperm, 3 rounds unsuccessful clomid, 1 ICSI June 14 with complete fertilisation failure, next ICSI Nov 14.
Jelliebabe - 40, Threw the pills away 8 years ago. Unexplained but have a very low AMH, 1st IVF with clinic in Prague, 2 embryo's, chemical pregnancy. 2nd IVF in London branch of clinic - 1 embryo, BFN. Hoping to go back to Prague for Donor eggs in January
nolly, 32, TTC since Sep 2012, unexplained. 6 months clomid did sod all, next appointment 29th Oct, hoping to start private round ivd soon.
Pixie, 33, TTC June 12, DH has zero sperm count but managed to extract some under surgery, start downregging in a week, long protocol, ICSI Nov
Tigerdog 34, ttc 21 months. Unexplained after all tests and currently on waiting list for IVF.
Beaky 34 ttc since aug 2012. Unexplained with recurring cysts and adenomyosis. 1 failed IUI, IVF appointment in November and hoping to start first cycle in January.
Bushy 36, ttc since dec 2011, low amh, ovarian reserve, dh sperm had low count & motility but improved to 'normal' standard, IVF/Icsi in May bfp, then later missed miscarriage at 12 week scan. 2nd Ivf imminent but not sure if dates will work over Christmas.
HampshireBlues 36 TTC since August 2011, unexplained. 1st cycle of IVF chemical. Had a break over the summer. Cycle 2 planned for November
WildflowerMarmalade , 40, TTC 3 years, unexplained, underactive thyroid + immune issues. Sept IUI - BFN. Due to start IVF in Jan
lumen, 35, ttc since Nov 11 without a sniff of a bfp, unexplained, had only nhs funded IVF summer 2014, no implantation, trying self-funded IVF Nov 14, currently mid cycle
AnnieHoo 41, ttc July 2012. Unexplained. MMC Nov 2012, MMC May 2014. IVF Oct 2014 BFN. Waiting for FET.
Trill 41, TTC since March 2013. Endo with one completely blocked tube and one kinked with adhesions. Currently stimming.

And Gil's handy guide to the current IVFers....

Smidge - PUPO on 3 Nov
Pip - ET on 5 Nov
Lumen -EC on 5 Nov
Trill - day 5 of stims
Pixie - week of DR done
Seren - stimming yet?
Gillster- start DR on 4 Nov
Kuma - you starting soon???

Tiger. Sounds odd, and rude, but how old are you? Do you have time to just walk away from TTCing for a while.
Between IVF 2 and 3 I completely stopped TTCing. All I did was track the day ones of my periods. I just stopped thinking about it. It can become so all consuming that it can begin to cloud your judgement of everything. I left it 6 months between my last two IVF cycles and I think it really helped me to get my head together. I even stopped posting on the Berry threads.
I'm going to speak very bluntly here ladies, be warned. Facing the possibility of never having children is like grief. You grieve for the child that will not live. You grieve for the life you won't have. You grieve for the mother that you will never be. And like grief you never get over it, but you do learn to live with it. Right now Tiger you are in the depths of grief and you need to give yourself time to get out of it. Like grief it stops you seeing the world clearly and seeing all the things you do have.
Give yourself time. Have sex for fun and not because you have to. Spend time with your DH, take a weekend break if you can. Once you start on IVF it is a real roller coaster and you need to be mentally strong.

AFM. Still no bleeding.

I suggest reading this: m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28785054

And listening to the radio program: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04d4p0b

It is a very hard listen but so helpful.

Tiger sorry it was bfn for you. I really do agree with Happy in that you have absolutely done the right thing taking this amazing job. I know it seems as though it may be difficult to coordinate IVF with the commuting but when you get into the job you may find it will be fine. When you think about it, starting a new job is an anxious time anyway and you have the ttc on top of that too so it's bound to be stressing you out.
Also have you thought about changing FC? Maybe as Pip suggests a break will help? Sending hugs your way this morning.

Happy boo! How ridiculous to take two babies to a rugby match! What an unfortunate seat for you. for you! Maybe use Christmas/new year as your time filler, plan presents/activities/meals etc and that might help occupy your mind til our January clusterdiff begins! So far I've got me and dh doing some thing or activity constantly through to Christmas! I know what you mean though, waiting is so hard.

Pip over the moon for you that there's still no bleeding! Do you test tomorrow? I am crossing everything for you.

Oh poor Tiger . Have you tried the wonder cure-all known as Tiger's milk? It heals all, so I'm told.

I like what Pip has to say. Taking a break, if at all possible, can be invaluable in getting your head into a better place. Might your new job be just the right distraction for a while? Until you start IVF in the Spring.

Personally, I was dreading starting fertility treatment. All sorts of feelings were swilling around: worry about it not working, resentment at having to go through all this when it seems so easy for everyone else to have their baby, feeling very alone with it all (except for Berries obvs).

Once we had our consultation to start IUI, to my surprise, I felt so much better. It felt good to be doing something positive and taking charge in some way. It hit me how much the TTC failure had sapped my hope and enthusiasm for life. It had destroyed my confidence in being able to make things happen in other parts of my life.

I can't honestly say that I've solved the problem of how to keep up faith and hope in my own life even as such a big thing is going badly, TTC. But I have realised that getting pregnant is not and cannot be the only thing in my life. It's important to appreciate any tiny good thing, to try to balance yourself.

Pip is spot on when she says that this is about grief. It is a horribly complicated grief, an invisible grief which is not recognised by others and which unspools slowly, leaving you dangling between hope and dread each month. And what we fear most is one day having to give up that hope.

all round. We really deserve them

Good morning!

I'm sorry you're feeling down tiger . Did the yoga help? I try to think that I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be right now. It might not be a happy place and I might not want to be there but it's where I'm supposed to be. I'm not sure if that helps you at all. I don't always find it easy either.

How are you this morning lumen ? Are the cramps gone? Keep up the positive attitude!

Thanks jellie ! I think he's a handsome boy too! If I don't feed him when he wants fed he just goes out and gets his own dinner!

You still in the garage happy??

Excellent news pip ! Everything crossed for you! Really hoping you get your BFP tomorrow

AFM still really crampy, not so much like period pains now, more like colic pains. The (tmi alert!) brown gunk is still there too. Is this normal after ET??? Still have the headache and have no desire to leave the sofa! I definitely didn't expect to feel this crummy! I guess I'll call the clinic in the morning if I'm not feeling any better

Hmm, symptoms sound odd Trill, but I genuinely know nothing about this. Definitely call the clinic if no change by tomorrow and stay snuggled on the sofa for now. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about though. All the prodding and poking has left you tender, most likely.

I adore the photo of your cat btw. He looks gorgeous and so very relaxed. Just lovely.

Pipbin good news on your side ref spotting. FX tightly crossed for you. your testing tomorrow, aren't you?

Thanks ladies, you really are the best. I'm having a wobbly lip moment reading all your posts.

happy I'm sorry you feel down too. And wtf to kids at a rugby game?! The times in limbo are hard, I do try (if not always successfully) to enjoy the moment and not spend all my energy on coming up with the next plan, as I'd plan my life away if left to my own devices. trill I do like your mantra of being where you are supposed to be. It is a comforting thought. Hope you feel better today and enjoy snuggling on the sofa with that beautiful kitty of yours!

Pip you speak some wise words. I read the article and listened to the radio programme when it came out, it had me in tears at various points. I'm 34 so not old but not so young it doesn't matter. I am going to take three months out from ttc at the start of the year to focus on work and start picking up a life in London. It's the monthly disappointment that gets me. I've always been someone that people would describe as strong. I pick myself up and get on, and make a success of things but this is getting the better of me.

wild you are so right about the balance between hope and fear, it's a tightrope to constantly tread.

beaky you're right. Although I'm excited about the job I guess the change is stressful too.

Thanks for all the support ladies. I'm putting my new wellies (spotty ones!) and walking the dog, I shall have drink in a cosy pub by the fire and then dinner with the family. No more moping!

Hope you all have a lovely Sunday.

There is no holding you back Tiger you really are strong, you had a little wobble and now you've come back with a plan and a positive attitude. That's really inspiring, actually.

Sounds like a plan Tiger sitting by the fireside in the pub sounds good to me.
Honestly, taking a couple of months out is the best thing you can do. Try to forget what day of your cycle you are on and certainly stop using OPKs. I found that temping was dreadful as it meant the first thought I had every day was about TTCing. It's not a miracle cure, and I am sure as shit not one of those 'stop trying and it will happen' bastards.

I actually told DH about the Berries today. He was really happy that I had so much support. What do your DHs do for support though? I've got a couple of friends I can talk to about it but he doesn't really have anyone.
There should be a Berry-men corner.

Hello Berries! I waltzed in after so long and then waltzed back out again! Now I'm shimmying right back in as new of Bushy's BFP was reached my ears! Congratuations Bushy! Great news indeed.
There are a lot of new berries here (that probably aren't all that new anymore).
How are all you PUPO ones doing? Pip OTD date tomorrow? Fantastic that spotting is still at bay!
Tiger, having a mope is totally ok and expected. Maybe a short break would help you feel refreshed?
Pretty bad luck Happy that you got sat next to bloody little un's.
Pip- DH doesn't do anything for support from others. I think he buries his head in the sand a lot and throws himself into his career.
I'm waiting for AF to arrive and will then be having my endo scratch on the next cycle day 21 in preparation for IVF long protocol. I've got myself a little confused and am unsure as to whether I start the drugs that same day or wait for next AF? Apparently they do a 'scratch and teach' session on the endo scratch day so I guess I'll find out for sure then.

Hey Funky, welcome back. I'd imagine you'd start down regging pretty soon after the scratch to maximise its effectiveness.

Sorry you've been feeling down Tiger. I can't add anything to the great advice already provided but a little break from TTC sounds like a good plan.

AFM, AF arrived this morning -yay! This means that I can go ahead and have my blood test on Tues, so going to plan so far. We've just got back from visiting my new nephew who was born 3 days ago. It all went well and wasn't as painful as I thought it was going to be. I think I take pregnancy announcements much harder that actual births. My BIL and SIL have asked me and DH to be guardians so that was lovely. My SIL was asking about our next round of treatment but I just kept it really vague. I don't need anymore expectation on me.

Hope all you PUPO ladies are doing well. I keep singing Beyoncé "All the single ladies" and replacing single for PUPO!

Funky I know that on a regular long protocol you start on day 21, but I don't know about it with a scratch.
Gil I know what you mean. I struggle with pregnancy announcements much more that babies. I don't get bothered about a baby as they aren't my baby and I want my baby. But pregnancy is hard - why couldn't it be me?

Very anxious about my test tomorrow. Work aren't expecting me in so I'm not sure if I'll go or not.

Just want to pop in and wish you all the luck in the world for tomorrow morning pip, I will be checking stalking the thread tomorrow for your news

Great to see you back funky. Think we may be cycling at similar times. I'm going for a scratch on day 21 of my next cycle. Looking at my dates that will be around Boxing Day (which could potentially screw things up - anyone know if it has to be done on cd21? Can it be done a few days later??). I'm guessing that'll make me a bit behind you initially but as I'm short protocol I should then catch you up? I think Beaky and Wild will also be cycling around that time.
Gil I'm glad that everything is going to plan for you. Also pleased that all went well meeting your new nephew and it wasn't as difficult as you'd been anticipating.
Pip I can't tell you how much I'm hoping and praying for you at the moment. Literally everything I have is crossed. I totally understand the anxiety - I nearly dropped my Gü pot of pee when I tested after my cycle because I was shaking so much. Thinking of you and will be looking for news first thing x

Hello funky! Endo scratch sounds bit scary but great that things are lined up for you.

tiger you are sooo strong. Always a very positive and uplifting presence on here. I know you have geeed me up many a time when I've been on a downer ( there's been quite a few!!) I could have written exactly what you said. It's got the better of all of us so you are not alone at all. You're just having a wobble, which is perfectly normal and the pressures of the new job must be adding. I think you 've totally taken the right decision with the new job and I admire you even more for being so dynamic and taking it up. You are fab & obviously your new employers could see that. For selfish reasons I would hate you to leave us for a break as I love reading your posts. Maybe a pared back break would be good, as in if you are regularly doing ov sticks/temps then ditch them & like pip says note down your cycle day 1, continue to take ur vits but do everything else that you would normally, so have a drink, don't abstain during 2ww etc, just be your self and that's that.

pip my dh often asks how the berries are getting on. Dh doesn't talk to anyone really. I don't think men have the same need as we do.

trill how chilled is ur cat!!

wild spot on with your advice and you've reminded me to try some tiger's milk. You made me lol so much when catching up on the thread, love the nobody get pregnant til I'm back.

Had a good catch up with you guys, thank you for all of your lovely, lovely comments. Hope you don't mind if I stick round for a bit, I promise I won't go on about pg stuff!

Has great w/e in manchester, obv quite different being a dry one but great to see friends, do some brill shopping and saw john bishop who was v funny! On way back we stopped for nice Sunday lunch but good God berries, on the table next to us was a table of 2 couples, -maybe late 30's early 40's- & both, yes both,women were pregnant with bumps! 1 table up there was a new born baby, then on other table there was a young baby and kids-good lord, like berry bloody hell. There were scan pics being shown round and conversations about how unsuitable 3 door cars were.

Dh confessed how he's swinging between being really excited and then thinking he can't because of what happened before. He's asked me it was positive wasn't it, you are pg!! I did say we could get another pg test but he's fine with no period and one test.

Best of luck for tomorrow pip, all the Pupo ladies! all the Pupo ladies!!!

Wotcha Berries!
Another AWOL Berry returning to the fold, I hope you'll forgive my prolonged unannounced absence. It all just got a bit... tedious, if I'm being perfectly honest (ttc, not you guys!) and I just needed a total break from everything to do with it. Anyway, yesterday was my Unhappy Miscarriageday, and I got a ton of wonderful support from the Berries in t'other place and THEN I heard how bloomin' many PUPO ladies (all the PUPO ladies!) we have at the moment AND bushys wonder-diff and I decided it was time to come back and see what the hell else I've missed out on (and rub up against you all for some luck, obvs).

I've read back a fair bit but be patient with me while I regain my bearings with you all!
I'm afraid there's no news in my world, although we're at an open evening for our IVF unit on tues. Got all my questions at the ready!

Just for the benefit of our new Berries (and those of you who've forgotten who I am! ) here are my stats;
Rain, 33, Ttc since Mar 2012. MMC Nov 13 (Natural BFP), awaiting referral for IVF on Dec 30th.

Good luck for tomorrow pip! Everything crossed for you xx

Welcome back Rain! Glad you decided to return to the fold. Was your name Parsley before?? If not I'm really confused (easily done I'll admit!)
Looooove all the PUPO ladies. Definitely going in the next thread title!

Hello stranger!! Lovely to have you back. Sure yesterday must have been v difficult for you but well done for getting past it.

Calling chef tiger- I just tried to make ur milk and it was all a bit clumpy, think cus I mixed in the cinnamon, nutmeg and vanilla extract into cold milk, then tried to heat it. Was nice but cld u set us straight on the recipe again ( this time I'll save it)

Hey Funky sounds like you'll be starting soon! Exciting.

Pip tons of luck for tomorrow, I am really really hoping this is it for you.

Bushy sounds like you've had a fab weekend, but what a berry hell pub for your lunch! Stick around as long as you need too, I always love to hear how our diffed berries are getting on.

Lumen how are you doing? Did the cramps go?

Gill well done on managing the baby! I'm the same, I don't mind babies but I do get a bit frustrated at my lack of diffment when there is

Happy very productive! Is your FC open over Christmas then? I'm not sure whether I'll be able to start until January and I'll be long protocol too.

Oops! *when there is a preggo announcement.

Ock I've crossed posted and now cluster posted.

Yey welcome back Rain good to see you. I had my IVF info evening last week - interesting for sure.

bushy the key is to whisk the spices into the milk once you've put on the hob and it starts to get warm, and to whisk again as it hots up. It is the only way to stop clumping! Bit faffy but worth it. I also sneak in half a teaspoon of brown sugar if I need a sweet pick me up. Thank you for your kind words, glad you had a good weekend! I'm still so chuffed for you.

pip tight squeeze and lots of luck for tomorrow.

Wotcha rain! Welcome back. Hope the open evening goes well.

Am feeling much better after a lovely day. Highlight was sitting by the fire in a lovely pub whilst the hound sprawled at my feet. She doesn't relax easily we are so similar so seeing her snooze in the pub is a new step in her adjustment to the big bad world!

Just read 'in pursuit of motherhood' by Jessica Hepburn. 10 rounds of fertility treatment!? I thought it was insane to go that far before I read the book but now I understand why she couldn't give up when it felt like she was so close on so many occasions. It hits the nail on the head with some of the early bits that how ttc makes her feel, like ending her happy relationship with alcohol. Would have preferred a happy ending though.