TTC way longer than 10 months past & present

[joycep]

A group of lovely ladies who've seen it all

joy I read that article today too. V depressing. Also get what you're saying about single friends having a rough time. Sister critter is 37 and would love to meet Mr Right but it hasn't happened for her yet. She is thinking about doing IUI with a lovely gay friend if she hasn't met anyone in a year or so. Life is just bloody hard for a lot of people.

xpost ray at the nun in a habit. She is uber-glam (but always clowning about) so that is a funny image!

Lol at Sister Critter. Am now picturing Critter corrupting her glamorous nun sister. Ah, that is tough, at 37 I think would similarly bring those feelings of life passing by / not bring on track / wondering if there's something fundamentally wrong with you. Critter you do cope well with the unpredictable ovulation, I'm glad there's a cycle in the offing as a back up.

Ray I'm glad you sound sort of ok after that meeting, it must have been tough to hear that. I'm so glad he's a man with a plan though, and doing something different and a natural cycle at that sounds like a very good thing, I'm sure that correct diagnosis of what's going on is really important. Is this still from looking at day 2 though? If there's just one embie will they let it go on a bit further to see what it does? Interesting about the different advice about scratches and affect of the drugs on embryo quality.

Euro it's nice to hear about you in the thick of things. Are you managing to breastfeed or expressing and bottle feeding? (just being nosy) I hope you're managing to enjoy it too even while feeling wrecked!

Gin lovely to hear from you. Can't believe yours and Bunny's and Buzzy's are all getting so big!

Bunny you def didn't sound preachy. I find we make an effort to be healthier for a while but do a very good job of convincing each other we 'deserve' treats of alcohol (him) and sugar (me), and they creep back up again. Henrietta was lovely, I need to revisit her advice.

Joy, bless you for calling my journey turbulent, that made me feel better and less like a moany old whinny. That is interesting about Lauren Bacall. It's so odd isn't it, the whole thing. Where are you at now on your cycle, are you waiting to be scanned to check you've downregged ok? And fingers crossed no cysts? I think you must do an amazing job of keeping a brave face in front of your friends, they all seem to want to wax lyrical to you.

I still hadn't had my test result from the mc in feb on the 'products' so chased it up last week. I had a phonecall today from an admin lady to tell me she had the results in her hand. However as she wasn't medically trained she couldn't tell me what they were! Brilliant, thanks for the call. I'm having to wait for a doctor to call back. My fear Ray and Joy is that it's going to be a chromosome problem, and that's the real reason why all those embryos haven't got anywhere, unless there's bucket loads of progesterone overriding some selection process, so that it just fails a bit further on. Thanks for the clinic advice all. I might see what this test result says first and then have a think.

Oh Ray , I am sorry. I also putting it out there that perhaps there still is a numbers game for you because 9 doesn't sound that many to deduce they'll all be rubbish. We have had 28 useless ones and I am sure Gin mentioned once that the little ginster was a 20 something lucky embryo. I don't know, you have a fantastic amh and i am sure it is highly unlikely that there is an issue with you as well. I really feel quite strongly that this isn't over for you but I know too well how difficult to believe it is. So with this natural ivf are they just taking one egg from you with no stimulation at all?

Cos - for goodness sake why call you!! And also I was relieved that the results showed chromosome because it gave us a reason and they technically can happen to anyone. If it doesn't show chromosome, that could have been your septum causing problems. And moany whinny? Ha! That's my chief role on here.baggsed it already.

Critter - is your sister very worried about not having kids? I wonder whether people who desperately want kids but haven't met someone go through this strange grief process as well??

Did sister critter freeze her eggs? I think it's really tough being single when everyone around you is paired off and then there is the added anxiety of wanting children. I don't have many single friends, one of them did tell me recently that she has started to think she will never have children. Although I don't think it's too late for her to meet someone and have a baby. I know a few people who met someone in their late thirties and had a baby very soon after. They must be the lucky ones who can conceive easily at 40. I don't envy them really though because I do wonder how strong their relationships are.

This ttc stuff is exhausting, isn't it? I went to bed early last night and still feel so tired this morning. I think the appointment and all the talking about it really floors me. Joy, have you done a totally natural cycle icsi? Or was it just the mild? I do wonder if long might be the answer for you so that you can produce lots of eggs to go at. I'm so confused by it all because the focus has moved from shit sperm to shit eggs which I agree seems like too much of a coincidence. I'll be really interested to see what happens on this natural cycle. I won't be given any stimulation drugs, just the trigger and he said we'd do ec without GA and even without sedation, yikes. He assured me it's not painful when it's only one but I'm not convinced. I don't even know if we will get that far. I've never been convinced that I ovulate regularly. He did say that often with the natural cycle they get the timing wrong too and get to it too late. Because we aren't paying I suppose I've got nothing to lose.

Ray - I have never done a natural or mild cycle, it has always been full on drug assault to get maximum amount of eggs. The previous rounds were short protocol with full drugs which almost feel like half a cycle compared to this long protocol I am on at the moment. Blimey it is dragging.
What I am interested to know is what your clinic are expecting to find out with one egg? Of course that may very well be a lucky round but what would they be testing for? Surely you can't come to any kind of conclusion from one embryo?? Or are they expecting the lack of drugs to make a difference to quality which would be a very interesting find.

This will definitely be my last drug fuelled round. If we did have the money to do another round I would want to try mild stimulation to see if that made a difference but I suspect getting fewer eggs and fewer embryos just means less chance.

And omg at EC when awake. Euro is the one to talk to about that!!

Cos how bloody irritating. I hope the doctor calls you back soon. Maybe see what he or she recommends? What a long wait for test results - 6 months!

Ray she did freeze her eggs. But it's not a guarantee of a baby, as we all sadly know. There is a sweet spot age wise for finding a partner to have children with and sadly she is not in it anymore - most men she would be interested in are already paired up - but she understandably doesn't want to settle. I do think there is a grief. The ttc stuff isn't as in her face but it's constantly hovering, the fear of not having children.

It sounds like your doctor really cares about you and wants to find out what's going on. When is AF due? Do you chart still?

Joy when do you start stimms?

ray Goodness it is all systems go with you. It is interesting what your doctor was saying. It is all so overwhelming isn't it and exhausting to think of all the possible factors at play in all this. If you don't me asking nosey bag alert why are they doing this round for free, are they trying something a bit experimental?
EC without sedation sounds interesting! Will you be on your own?

joy Jeez, your friends are something else! A long answer phone message like that sounds like just what you needed
I haven't listened to that radio programme. I want to but at the same time kind of don't. I did post on the thread in chat that you mention and posted on ray. I felt compelled to say something on a thread that for once seems useful and informative rather than nasty and making out that barrens are some how weird. It was difficult keeping it brief though. There is so much I want to say. One thing that I have been meaning to ask to ladies is whether you feel awkward around other peoples children like their parents are thinking that you might steal them? Maybe it is just my weirdness!

critter it is lovely that you are so close to sister Critter crosses myself and genuflects It is sad that she too is facing the spectre of childlessness. I do sometimes wonder whether we are the first generation who were encouraged en masse to go to university and have careers and this is the result, a generation who have left it late to have families. Saying that, they reckon there is a baby boom so maybe I am talking out of my bum. Maybe I am just looking at my peers.

bunny and gin it is lovely to hear from you. I miss you both. It is lovely to hear how you are getting on with your mini ten plussers.
gin it is interesting what you said about the Strep B. I am confuddled by the lack of infection in the samples so read what you said with interest. Oddly, despite the fact it isn't a UTI apparently, those cystitis sachets and cranberry have made things much better and I can now sleep for longer than an hour at night! Weird. I am seething at the two cycle thing. I really am so sick of my luck.

fox thinking of you. Sending love.

ray I had natural cycle IVF and EC with no sedation (just some IV painkillers). It was really fine. I had the same for my last cycle, which was a mild stimulation one that produced 4 eggs (and many other possible follicles that he stuck the needle in to check) and by the end of the latter I was nearing the limit of my pain threshold, but that was a much longer process.

I agree with joy - 9 really isn't that many. I had 10 eggs, which ended up with 5 embies put back at day 2 or 3, over my 4 cycles, to get one that stuck.

critter that is a very good point. I have a lovely work colleague who is broody as hell, mid-30s, and single. I remember how hard it was when mr euro was in the picture but showing no signs of wanting to settle down, and I wasn't sure that I would ever get the chance to even try for children

pout I read that thread but I don't think I posted. It was good to see a fertility discussion on one of the main boards that didn't turn into the usual "they can just adopt/there shouldn't be IVF on the NHS" trite shyte.

cos I'm trying to get breastfeeding going (somewhat half-heartedly at this stage as she just doesn't seem that interested) but C much prefers the ease of the bottle, so I am expressing and bottle feeding. She's putting on weight, which is the main thing, and the good thing about the bottles is that we can monitor how much she is getting (it would be quite hard to entirely move away from that when her intake was so closely monitored in hospital).

Quick work post. Close friends scan picture. So delighted for her. So heartbroken for myself. Complicated emotions.

Quick one for Cos...hug. Very complicated emotion and it is normal to feel sad for yourself. it's just yet another reminder for you. I had to have a very good cry and get it out of my system when bf let me know even though I was delighted. It did help. X

Oh I am sorry cos. Those sorts of things just blindside you. One feels terrible for the bad feelings that they stir up. Personally I don't think she should show you scan pictures. Is there a way you can gently show a lack of interest? I don't know, I just feel we have to protect ourselves. There are plenty of other people who can coo over that sort of thing to our lovely pregnant friends. I find pregnancy announcements really hard too. But I feel really hopeful for you. I do feel that something is going to change in the next six months for you. I think you're on the cusp of something better.

pout my sis was telling me in some parts of London you get 3 rounds on the NHS. It is infuriating that there is this postcode lottery. Glad the UTI symptoms have gone away. By the way - you can get amazing UTI painkillers OTC here. If anyone wants them, let me know!

euro lovely to hear that wee C is chubbing up.

Back to the doctor tomorrow. Can't wait to get back on the conveyor belt, the holding pattern is just so miserable. ray and joy, looking forward to our three-woman tandem ride together.

How's everyone doing? fox sweet pea I am thinking of you lots.

Quick squeeze for cos. Were they being a bit insensitive showing you their pictures? Scan photos are particularly hard for me. I think you'd have to be made of steel not to get upset by them. Are they instaduffers? I'm always pleased for people but it breaks my heart too.

Oh cos I recognise that mixture of emotions. I hope you are ok.

Good luck for your conveyor belt journey, critter. I hope this is it for you.

Euro, I bet centime is changing every day, she looks totally adorable. How is your recovery from the CS going? I suspect you are tougher than me when it comes to pain, The dr assured me it isn't painful when there is only one follicle because it's so quick but he's a man so it's easy for him to say. Anyway, that's assuming we get that far so I'm not going to worry about ec when there are hurdles before that.

Critter, that convey belt better be ready for you. We will be with you every step of the way.

3 nhs rounds, where is this? We all need to move there. Pout, I'm not quite sure how we are getting this go for free. I wasn't going to argue though. Dh reckons they're going to use us to experiment on. I think it's rather more boring than that and is because of the complicated way the insurance pays, some things are covered totally, some things half and some things not at all. When they put it down as being diagnostic then it's covered. They are claiming that the genetic tests and trial of PICSI are being used to diagnose what the problem is. Although like joy, i don't actually see how it can do this.

The truth is that the odds of the natural cycle working are very, very slim and I think it wouldn't be very ethical for them to make us pay for it but I imagine many clinics would still try so I'm very grateful.

I'm coming down with something I think. If I was on a normals thread I'd ask if you thought I might be pregnant (I'm only on day 21 so not possible for symptoms so don't get excited) I've been feeling dizzy and travel sick and can't seem to get warm. I'm wearing new deodorant today and every time I get a whiff it makes me want to heave. Roll on Friday.

Thanks guys. I so wanted to share with people who understand. Like critter said it's just horrible not to be able to uncomplicatedly happy for others. I think the sharing of the picture came from a genuine place of wanting to include me, and it was expected. I'm so so pleased for her but its just the twist in the heart at the same time you know....and I can't help but compare to my own scan pictures of failing embryos.....Joy I think maybe you're right, I might put on a sad film and induce some tears to let it out.

Critter great for you to get going ahead hope appt goes ok.

Euro amazing news about the chubb and you sound pragmatic about the feeding, must be so reassuring to see it all going in! so glad the bf thing is not one of those heartache things.

Xpost, oh ray that sounds hopeful??

Quick marking place post. Home, old, and officially retired from trying to have my own genetic baby. Sort of.

Thinking of becoming a ski bum

Will catch up later but hurrah for moving forward and err Ray I'm quietly watching!

Welcome back nelly. Ski bum plans sound great! Not this winter though as you'll be updiffed. Whatever happens, you will be a mum and your baby will be biologically yours, even if you do DE.

ray hope you're feeling better and snuggled up with some box sets.

cos I am sorry about the knife in heart twistiness. Horrible feeling. How are you doing today?

Back from doctor and got ok to start gearing up for the next frozen transfer. Lining was thin, hormone levels were low, and I haven't ovulated. So I start taking oestrogen tablets tonight and tomorrow I'll get my calendar on when ET will be.

Do you get on ok with the oestrogen tablets critter? I found them a bit tough in that they just left me feeling odd. That's good news you're on the go though. Will you transfer just one again this time?

ray I feel fine with the oestrogen - I was fine on BCP too though, and downregging. I guess I'm not very sensitive emotionally to fake hormones.

I think we will only transfer one again, yes. If (big if) we are lucky enough to actually have a healthy baby this time, and we do another frozen transfer a year after that, I would like transfer two the next time round. I guess for the first 'second' baby/twibling, I just want to really be able to enjoy my time being a new mum to him or her. My first experience of parenthood was so crap and I just want to really get the most joy possible out of the next one. I hear that twin mums are more frazzled and the experience of their children's babyhood is more stressful. Having said that - if we transferred one and it split, I would be delighted.

But the advantage of twins would be fewer deliveries and therefore fewer c sections. Sorry if it's insensitive to talk about that stuff here. Actually like you I am not holding out a huge amount of hope for this round. Am just worried that I'll miscarry again as it's the same protocol, so I'm sort of gearing myself to expect the same result. I don't know.

The mc wasn't to do with the protocol though. I'm sure I read somewhere that one in five embryos aren't viable and end in mc. So, very sadly I think it was very bad luck that this happened on the first twibling transfer. I agree with you on the twin thing. I felt very nervous about having a double transfer and them both taking, although it turns out I didn't need to worry about that! A very close relative of mine gave birth prematurely to twin girls who only lived for 24 hours :( :( and another had twins but one suffered brain damage and died at a young age. this has made me very worried about the prospect of carrying twins, I know it's silly and probably not a hereditary thing but I can't help thinking that women in my family can't cope with two babies at once. I hope I haven't upset you by saying this. I really hate that what you've been through with losing James and all the ttc stuff we've all faced makes us think about things we shouldn't have to.

ray you are probably right, I guess I just felt like it was weird that I didn't ovulate at all on the FET. I took one set of drugs to build up the lining, then added progesterone, but my body didn't produce any 'top up' progesterone - I worry that it somehow knew that I'd 'tricked' it and therefore refused to continue to carry the baby. But you're right, that is somewhat crazy as a theory and it was probably just a duff embie.

You definitely haven't upset me about the twin thing. It is more risky, the risks are very real. My cousin's wife also lost one of her twin babies at birth (her other baby survived despite being a 24 +3 preemie). She is definitely still upset whenever they see twins. And poor sea also lost one of her twins.

The progesterone supplement would be more than enough to support a pregnancy. When I did the FET I didn't ovulate in that cycle, you don't on a medicated round. I had AF then on day two started with the oestrogen. When they scanned me mid cycle the lining was thick but my ovaries were quiet, with no follicle and dr said that's what they wanted to see because they didn't want me to grown an egg that cycle. So I wouldn't have been producing any progesterone of my own either.

As I'm currently in the middle of the newborn sleep deprivation fog, I have to say that I have no idea how anyone manages multiples. My bestie did it when she already had a 2 year old and I have a new found admiration for her. I hadn't appreciated how relentless even one would be; I just can't imagine doing this in duplicate. And the difficulties that she had with her twin pregnancy were what made me so against having DET.

critter it is far more likely to have a been a duff embie than anything else. There is no reason why the same protocol shouldn't work this time.

ray thanks for asking, my recovery is going well. I still feel a bit bruised around my scar but I have full movement and can cough and laugh without pain. The main ongoing problem is that I can't stand anything sitting close to it, which limits me to about 3 outfits (and I have zero energy for shopping). I am absolutely exhausted though, which I put down to a combination of newborn sleep deprivation, the stress of the last 6 weeks of my pregnancy and C's 3 week stay in NICU, and the surgery and accompanying blood loss. It's a lot to take all at once. I hope she becomes one of those magical sleeping babies soon. :)

I hope you feel better soon.