TTC way longer than 10 months past & present

[joycep]

A group of lovely ladies who've seen it all

Still thinking of you fox if you are about and reading.

sar So lovely to hear that Mini Sar is such a little character. I have lost many hours watching a certain little engine when my nephew was little and the tune makes me all a bit sad now that he is a strapping teenager!

ray Oh no at worries over BV and PID. I guess since we are on the subject I can admit to some worries recently on that front too. I have been putting an uncharacteristic "unfreshness" down to the hot weather and the fact that I have put on loads of weight in the last couple of months (also thinking maybe perimenopause). I have to say though that I haven't been totally "right" in that department since my EC. Have you found a correlation too? I've also had waterworks ishoos since then, like I have a constant low level UTI. I have actually today dropped a urine sample in to the doctors because it's that troublesome lately.

joy I so hope that your cyst has dispersed itself. Cheeky cow of a nurse, over thinking things indeed! Maybe if she was waiting for a cyst to disappear before she could cycle she would be "over" thinking things too
I so hear you on what you are saying about all this being a rude awakening about how the world actually works. I used to believe in karma and what goes around comes around and that if you are a good person ultimately things will be okay...what guff. Now I think that you are either lucky or not and some people will just get shat on over and over again. You know the lovely quote that critter posted about struggle and how that makes beautiful people? That made me feel ashamed because since all this TTC stuff I have become the most self pitying, bitter, angry and intolerant person ever. I cut nobody any slack, I have cut people out of my life and re-evaluated all my relationships. I was in a carpark at the weekend and there was a grandmother with her grandson and it hit me that not only am I going to miss out on the love between a mother and child but also the love that a grandparent has with their grandchildren (I adored mine). I was struck that my life has and always will be pretty much loveless. It is hard to be happy and excited for others when you feel so disconnected to what feels like just about everybody else on the planet.

Lovely sweet pout - you are not self-pitying. What you have been through is dreadful. You are human! As we all are. I am just so sorry that you've had to go through this pain. It's completely crap and horrible. Sometimes there are days when we feel overwhelmed by it, and like our skin is so thin that it's almost raw, and sometimes we can manage to squeak through another day feeling ok.

joy yes yes on the bad luck thing. You can tell the nurse that overthinking things is normal when you've been through what you've been through, bloody cheek! When do you next get checked for the cyst?

sar mini sar sounds like such a cutie. I love that you're enjoying her so much! When I think what trauma you went through - my goodness.

MrC is away this week so I am home alone. cos I have started writing again, tentatively. It is hard! But my advisor on my course says I'm doing well. I loved your positivity thing. For me it is making the space I live in nice, cooking nice dinners for me and MrC and making time for my knitting projects and reading. And also, not socialising too much, especially not with people I feel I have a duty to see. That has helped me feel less stressed. Oh and swimming. Exercise always helps.

Pout –this is an ongoing relentless kind of grief. Not a grief that Critter is experiencing but still a suffering that is injuring our hearts. Full acceptance of the situation or having a baby seems to be the cure otherwise until we have reached one of those points, we are consumed by rather horrible emotions. But i bet if somebody was going through a terrible time, you would be there for them. I have found I am really interested and really care and empathise with people who have or had problems of any kinds. Perhaps I relate on some level or find it comforting that I’m not the only one with issues which sounds awful. I don’t want friends to have problems or struggles but I also don’t want to hear about the happy family things because it’s too painful. I can be incredibly intolerant of people who have had easy paths to babies and then go on about their kids or moan about a bit of nausea in pregnancy or sleepless nights or stretch marks (things which I’m sure I would do if I hadn’t have had problems). But we have so many emotions at work here. You can’t underestimate the power and pain of wanting a child and not being able to have one. It is common knowledge in the medical world that this is a major life crisis so we shouldn’t be ashamed of what we are feeling. The dream of building our own tight loving family unit is animalistic and innate and the thought that this won’t be possible I find very frightening.. I do worry that if this never happens, will i ever get over it or will i be bitter about it for life.
And Karma schama . Some people get horrendous hands. I read about a couple who lost all their 3 children in a recent plane crash. I just can’t understand how a family can be dealt that hand. I did read that and felt shame for what I was feeling.

That's the thing isn't it joy it seems almost phoney to be grieving for the loss of children that we don't have. I admit that when lovely, lovely critter posted and was so nice in the face of my self pitying last post I felt ashamed and embarrassed because critter has had the most awful hand dealt her. I hope it isn't inappropriate to say that. Bless you Critter for your amazing generosity of spirit, tremendous warmth and mind boggling strength.

I hear you too joy on the fear of this grief being open ended. I do wonder whether I will still be grieving when I am an old lady. I read all the threads about infertility and surviving it and the consensus seems to be that you do eventually get over it and adjust and fill your life with other things but I can't envisage that. I am wrestling with the battle between head and heart. My head knows that not only is the chance of having a baby pretty much gone but also that the ideal window for doing that has closed too. My heart and guts screech otherwise.

critter it is great that you are writing again. Are you finding that is is helping? I hear you on the nice dinners. Too many nice dinners in my case and unfortunately now a 3 week starvation diet of soup and cereal before MrP is on holiibobs and we can have nice food again. I am too fat for my "fat jeans" and they are, I am embarrassed to say, giving way at the inside legs where my thighs are sooooo humungus and rubbing together. The current quest is to loose enough weight to fit into my normal weight jeans before the fat jeans totally rip and the legs fall off Denim hotpants would so not be a good look for me at the mo!
Where do you swim? For some reason I imagine you swimming in some sea on an exotic beach!

Feeble post from an ill fox. I have loads I want to say and pout I send you a huge huge hug. You are gorgeous! I have had all sorts of news from my clinic and basically can go again very fast if I want to. My heart wants to but sadly my body just can't. The drug come down is bloody awful. My acu thinks that a combo of head bash, drugs and shock have made me have a horrible reaction. Sounds about right. My hot flushes are coming thick and fast and I've got nausea and gagging. Also I look a bit pregnant and have a lovely outbreak of face boils. It's all great for the self esteem. Will post more tomorrow as am in blatant breach of my no ttc internet house rules. Will name check then. Love you all.

And the grief thing I've been thinking about loads. H said on Monday he felt like he'd been dumped. It typifies the physical and emotional feelings for me pretty well.

Ladies, you've written so much today that I identify with. Fox it's not surprising that you're feeling ill. I hope you're being kind to yourself.

I definitely think that I've being going through a kind of grief. The waves when it hits some days can be overwhelming. Pout, I get the thing about being a grandparent. It sounds silly but I feel jealous of grandparents. I realize that if we don't have children then we will probably be lonely in later life. I don't know if I've written about this on here before but I have a lovely neighbour who is in her 80s now. I sometimes go in and sit with her for an hour or so to have a chat and take her cake. She told me her and her husband tried for children but it never happened. They got married in their twenties and I guess they were trying for many many years and it still never happened. Her husband died twenty years ago and she's been on her own ever since. She told me that she still gets upset about never having had children. When she told me that I got home and cried and cried because I realised that it's probably not true that you get over it eventually. She does have nieces and nephews, there are some photos up in her house of them and their children but i can see that she's a peripheral part of their lives.

Pout, I get the rage fairly often over the unfairness of it. I've thought some very uncharitable things. I get irrationally angry when I see shit parenting. I used to believe in karma, I don't anymore. Bad things happen to good people.

Joy, does your excited friend know about your situation? If she does then She's incredibly insensitive. I hate it when people say things about how great it is, or exciting. It upsets me and I want them to shut up. I've also joined the camp of thinking that if it's happened easily then how can you know how bloody amazing it is?

Critter, will mrcritter be away a long time? My dh is away too and I'm incredibly lonely without him. I think we've become a pair against the world and I only really like it when it's just the two of us hiding away. I can't socialize in the way I used to.

A post of total rumblings. Sorry, I'm tired x

Too tired to post properly but reading tonight and my heart is breaking just a little bit more for us all

Just a quick post from afar. I have been speed reading after alerted to fox's news from the other place. Unbelievable. Literally I cannot believe it. I am sending warm soothing hugs across to you. And to all the other wonderful, beautiful people on this thread, I love you all.

Tomorrow is the big day. Officially "stop trying" day. Although that said, it's not really as we will still do Greece and still have unprotected sex! But it's not nice that it arrived. It was meant to tempt fate and I'd be pregnant by now. Oh well. Not sure why I'm surprised. I'm happy though, I'm on holiday. This was a good plan.

I'm going to try not to think of MN too much but I'm checking the other place. Hello to newbies, please stay and don't be worried that we are all friends now, it's not a closed group I promise.

Fox – how are you today? any signs of improvement? I guess these drugs will take a long time to get out of your system.

Pout – i also hear you on the getting too fat thing. I can run to fat quite easily especially if i’m not particularly happy. My favourite jeans have split in the crotch area because of the rubbing. I haven’t even had them a year. exercise and healthy eating are so important but I also am lazy and it’s a constant battle to get my lazy backside moving. And then when I feel rubbish, I eat rubbish. Also I’m sorry to hear that you have issues since EC. I have been hanging out a little bit on the FF board for my clinic and I really am quite surprised by the issues ladies are getting with all the fiddling down there. There’s no doubt about it that all this stuff we have had are having done can cause problems. It does sound like you have a bacterial infection or something so perhaps a dose of antibiotics will get rid of it. I don’t know whether hormonal problems can cause sweatiness problems but i’ve noticed i seem to sweat a lot more these days and I have to keep spraying myself throughout the day. It’s very strange as i was never a sweaty person. And I don’t think it’s related to the hot weather.

Ray – that’s really sad about your neighbour and a worry that the sadness is still there but if she isn’t included in her sibling’s life or been involved with their kids upbringing, I can see how the sadness will remain. I remember my mum saying when i was about 18 that they should have done more with my aunt who never married or had kids. I only understand that now. My siblings will never have children and it is a great sadness that I’ll never be an aunt as well and that there’ll be no descendents for my parents. We are not involved in my BiL’s family life as his wife has a very close knit family and so we are very much on the peripheral. We aren’t invited to their children’s birthday parties any more. Not that we would go because it is too unbearable but still i think they should invite the uncle out of politeness. I wish they were kinder and more inclusive of Roy in to their family as those kids love him. There was a study done which did show that people who adopted kids were much happier than those who stayed childless. But this just isn’t for everyone. I will choose adoption over childlessness I think and I guess roy and i will need some serious discussions about this if the next round fails.
Oh and these friends know all about our struggles and perhaps that’s why i get irked when they tell us how excited they are. I know I am being unreasonable but we don’t need to know about the excitement, it’s a given. The WHO classifies infertility as a disease and you wouldn’t rub happy times in people’s faces who are suffering from something else so why this?

Nelly – i hope you are having a lovely time in far off lands.

This is an excellent article

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/06/i-know-the-pain-of-infertility-and-talking-about-it-helps?CMP=fb_gu

It's funny you mention the sweaty thing. I was never a sweaty person but the last few months I seem to sweat a lot. I put it down to age but now I'm wondering if it's a post ivf thing. What issues do the ladies have, joy? Pout, my bv is definitely related to ivf. It has happened after each round. I think it's the pessaries.

Ray - infections and strange AFs and one woman has got acute endo which apparently could have been caused by the drugs or a 3d scan. Not comforting.

Not able to post properly but wanted to say I am reading and sending love to you all. You are such an incredibly strong bunch of women and you will all get through this and be happy. I absolutely believe that with all my heart.

Joy you've written so eloquently about the heartache of all this. That article is very good too, I'm almost tempted to post it on my t'other place public page, but I probably won't. I know what you mean about the bad luck thing. I often catch myself thinking well I've waited very patiently so far so surely it's my turn soon! It doesn't work like that does it. Do you think it's a hangover from being brought up to wait patiently?! I always felt I was a lucky person, and this has taken that away from me, but it also made me reflect on the people who don't grow up feeling that, who feel unlucky and left out from day one of their lives. Which gives me the vague thought of wanting to do something to help but then I remember I'm in no fit state to help anyone else, it takes all my energies to hang on my my fingernails. And I'm completely taken aback that friends who know your history choose to use words like that. It's completely insensitive, I think that would have floored me. I'm glad the cyst may well have gone. Can you opt not to take that drug next time, try a different one?

I think I'm a bit like you Pout I have definitely let certain friendships slide out of the knowledge that they are very gushy people and it would just hurt too much to keep hearing about their happy families. I can cope with hearing of the practicalities, or the difficulties! You are definitely not a bad person for thinking those thoughts, we all do it. Don't be too hard on yourself. What's your current approach to the whole thing?

Oh Nelly, I'm sorry you did put get a quick ironidiff post anti-b's. I am well jell of your current location, and I hope that is seriously helping to smooth this week. Athens may still be the ticket.

Fox lovely, I'm thinking of you loads and willing the hormones to settle back down so you feel back towards your usual self soon. I hope they give you enough time to make the right choices for you.

AF came in full flow yesterday and it was all clotty and dark and not healthy looking, and I was in just one of the deep funks of I've got a mangled womb, and dodgy embryos, and it's never going to happen, the op hasn't changed anything, and I just want it all to stop. Logic doesn't come in to it sometimes does it, it's just giant tsunami of emotions which knocks you over. I was begging DH to let us stop and he just looked so crushed it made so sad.

Critter I have to thank you because I did read your post and it reminded me I hadn't exercised much in the last week, so did the tracy anderson dance thing and it definitely helped. Also I liked that you said that you choose not to socialise too much. I also do this but usually thinking that I 'ought' to be socialising more, it's nicer to think of it as a positive choice.

Ray how lovely are you popping round to your neighbour. You are so sweet and I bet she loves talking to you and eating cake. I think the thing about a life with kids and grand kids is that it gives life a certain momentum and busyness - my granny when she was old would still talk about 'what's next' because there was always a stage, or event, or happening for somebody to focus on. That's what I dread just a future of repetitive years, all the same, only punctuated by holidays.

So the 30 day challenge - well people what are you going to do? I'm trying to do through August learning a few German words everyday. Just a few, cause I keep going on holiday to where they speak this, and I don't speak a word, and I'd love to speak it. I have so far learnt how to order the bill, ask where people are from, and announce my name etc. Yesterday I was in such a foul mood I learnt the German words for st and f*g c**p

Today was a bad day. After a follicle tracking scan in the room I was last in for early pg scan before MC where I was told I might have ovulated or I might have a cyst I then came to work where one if my team asked me for 'five minutes'. She's pregnant, which is great for her of course. But timing of it today made it even harder to take. Feel a bit weak today, I guess we all get those sometimes.

Looking forward to reading that article joy, that's a morning job though.

So sorry the suffering continues fox, do you know how long it will take to get it out of your system?

What's the 30 day challenge then cosmo? Normally mine are exercise related. This month it's lunges - sane number of lunges as the date until you do 30 sets on 30th Aug. I like the learning thing better!

pout, I think we all understand how you feel in one way or another. When we still hadn't got anywhere before DH grandma died I was sad for the loss of her ever meeting our baby as well as losing her. We were all very close. It's something that affects a whole family in one way or another. It doesn't make you a bad person at all

Cos – i’m just so sorry, you have been at this longer than any of us and I’m not surprised after what you’ve been through and false hope and af arriving that you felt like that. Mrcos probably feels utterly helpless. I would have thought your af would look a bit strange after having a massive septum removed. Did they say it would It sounds like your period was late as well, is that unusual? Strange looking af’s doesn’t mean it will be like that on the next one, perhaps it’s trying to find a regularity. But still it’s bloody awful when things aren’t normal and you just feel like you are on some never ending treadmill. I think acu is quite good for clotty and dark periods as that is suggestive of blood stagnation but again this may have been a one off and will all sort itself out naturally. Totally agree that kids and grandkids gives life a momentum and busyness and there seems to be a lot of things to organise and look forward to . I guess it gives people a focus off of themselves as well. Oh and yes to gushy friends. Seriously we’ve had another email today and with no prompting about how their new baby is quote “amazing”. What German words would be good to respond to that?

Dulcet, I’m sorry that you had a bad day as well yesterday. I wish they could do proper scans which showed the difference between a follicle or a cyst. I can’t quite work out what the plan is with you are you being tracked so you can be down regged?

Ray – any news on the bv?

Fox – still thinking about you lovely.

So at my end my inkling was correct, the cyst has completely gone and the doc said good to go and I will start on the noristeterone tonight. Of course i moaned and whined and said that was what caused the cyst in the first place and they’re putting me on it again when I have a follicle growing. But no i have to take it apparently. So will see if this does the same thing again but mightily grateful that this has cleared up quickly with no surgery needed. It’s all in to awkward timings now though but screw it, this will have to take precedence. Will see in a couple of weeks time whether i’m ready to stimulate. Downregging take 2. . I just need to know what happens to our embryos in this round because if they go the same way as before, it’s game over.

I will catch up properly later. I've been reading but not posting for the past few days and have a lot I want to write. But for now, I just want to say...

She's home!

After more than three and a half years of waiting, endless poking and prodding, two rounds of IUI, 4 rounds of IVF, a very stressful final few weeks of pregnancy and a three week stint on NICU and SCBU, we finally have our baby home. :)

fox I hope that you are okay. It felt sad reading how Hare feels like he has been dumped. What a good analogy to sum up the empty yet somehow stingy hollowness and disbelief of it all. So sorry to read that you are feeling so poorly too. The drugs are hideous and it seems like you are reacting to them more than most. Ouch at hit to the head. Hope you feel better soon.

dulcet so sad that you are having a rubbish day. What pants and what terrible timing with your colleague. When will you know what is going on and whether you have a cyst or not?

cos I can relate to your thinking about having been so patient (and it having been so long) and how surely it must be your turn now. If I am totally honest I still live in hope of, and fantasise, about the ironidiff where I can wax lyrical about how we had all but given up, were hardly trying, only had sex once that month blah, blah... What shite. So sorry that you have got a yukky period. Mine are like that about one in every three these days (used to be every time), the rest being worryingly short and light and perimenopause like. Maybe your womb is clearing out some gunk and blood that remained from your op? I don't know about the whole clotty, dark, mucus thing. Mostly the tinternet says that it is nothing to worry about about but I can't help but visualise a tiny egg trying to implant in all that blergh.

What is the Tracy Anderson dance thing? I tried the Shred for a month and lost nothing weight wise and a negligible amount inch wise, the only thing I had to show for it was two crocked ankles! I want an exercise bike clothes airer but they are heinously expensive.
at your expanded German vocabulary

joy Hurrah for the disappeared cyst gives the snooty nurse the finger
rolls eyes at gushy e-mail from friend. Of course a new baby is amazing Does this friend know your troubles because if so that is monumentally thoughtless.
Commiserations on the weight gain and trashed jeans! I definitely have been comfort eating which is not like me. I just feel like food has become the highlight of my day and any willpower is totally gone. The soup diet is killing me though. I fecking hate soup anyway. Savoury drinks is a weird concept

How interesting about FF Joy and yes ray to the sweating post IVF. I was never a sweater, never smelled fruity, now I am the original sweaty Betty. Way TMI but are you finding that your crotch area sweats alot?
Your old lady friend sounds sweet ray how nice to go in with cake for a chat. I have to say that it isn't much comfort though on the getting over infertility front.

Waves at nelly and hoping that you are enjoying yourself

X-post Hurrah euro Welcome home Centime!

Hurrah indeed euro! Enjoy having your little girl home, I'm so delighted for you.

Joy, and yes to cyst disappearance. I hope you looked smugly at the nurse. It's all systems go again.

Cos, you've waited long enough. 7 years is an age. I'm sorry af is here, I don't think it's a sign of anything bad that it's not like usual ones. Mine vary a lot month to month.

joy ugh at emails. I bloody hate some people! Great news on the cyst going, that is fantastic. So you'll be good to start stimming in two weeks? We may be paw clutching together it seems as I am pretty sure I ovulated on Tuesday (30 days after my mc). Of course MrC and I didn't DTD on Monday or Tuesday before he left (although we did get in some weekend action) so I expect AF will roll around in a couple of weeks in time to start taking the oestrogen for another transfer.

dulcet sorry about the rough day. I find other people's pregnancy announcements hard (when they aren't ladies here or other people I know are struggling a lot). Hang in there.

euro SO thrilled Centime is home! Lovely news.

cos I totally think of not socialising as a positive choice. So often socialising is something I don't really want to do. I am lucky enough to have a very big circle of friends and kind people who care about me, but I don't always have the energy to go out for drinks, coffee etc. It can get exhausting. I prefer to be holed up at home! I could never do the Tracy Anderson dance thing because of the coordination required.

pout I swim at our local YMCA sports centre - it's actually really nice, a massive pool and very new. I tend to go late in the evening so I can get a lane to myself. It's really good for thinking time.

ray hope you're alright my love and not missing MrR too much.

fox sending you love and thoughts as always.

All ok here, sister Critter is visiting for the week, she arrives tonight - looking forward to seeing her. It is odd how my cycles have started up again post-pregnancy. I also do think it's because I'm a bit heavier. And I sometimes wonder whether moving abroad was one of the things that stopped them for all that time. Stress often manifests itself physically - especially in me - I get rashes and things.

That's great that your cycles seem to have kicked in. They do say that often happens after pregnancy, don't they? I do wonder if you might just get a surprise BFP one day :) mr ray is back home, we have a very nice weekend planned :)

Welcome home to baby euro! I remember you from a few threads I think, great you have your little one home at long last!

joy great news about the disappearing cyst but a pain if the thing that caused it is your next step. Fingers crossed it won't happen again.

cos I know everyone's cycles are different and need to judge it on what is normal for you but dark red clots are average for me. Hopefully it's not evidence of anything unhealthy. Someone mentioned acupuncture for regulating periods and I started that last month. Can't speak for the results yet but it does seem to be a popular choice for those sorts of problems, if there even is one!

pout I'm not a soup fan either, how long have you been doing the soup diet? Sounds hungry!

I am follicle tracking with clomid, not IVF. I go for a blood test next Friday to see if I ovulated on the clomid to help them understand the scan. If not they think it's a cyst and will have an appointment to see what happens next... Was a bit of a odd scan really - collapse follicle was another thing mentioned but I think that was about having ovulated and not as bad as it sounds. I need to ask more questions but I get so overwhelmed and feel really 'small' (can't think of a better word). Plus there's a lady with a stick up my bits, not easy for conversations!

joy If they have to say that it is 'amazing' then you can be sure its not, people who pretend parenting is all roses are quite delusional, there are days when you think life is perfect and others when it has you on your knees, although I know you would like to be in their position with a baby, I hope DRing goes well for you and no more cysts

dulcet Sorry about scan, I remember after my first miscarriage sitting in a shitty little room thinking I don't ever want to be in here again, sadly I was, how many follicles did they see, yes hard to chat when someone has a wand up your hoo har

Cos sorry about AF turning up :( agree with joy about Mr C feeling helpless

euro yay to centime being home, it can be quite surreal at first, almost like it isn't real

critter weight and stress can affect your periods, I like to swim to clear my mind

pout I hope you do get that ironidiff :) soup diet sounds vile, have you tried the 5:2 diet that helped me

ray I know when I was trying I used to wonder why some of my patients didn't have kids and wondered if they tried for years, obviously not option like IVF for them, only adoption, some patients - mainly women - would sometimes tell me of their struggles, I suppose they had to deal with it on their own as their was no mumsnet either, do you have a date in mind for your next round??

nelly hope you are having a fab time

foxy thinking of you