The Elderberry Pavlovas are tooling up and making plans to bust out of this joint! Evacuation by helicopter by end of September, no berry left behind!

[barkingtreefrog]

The smallprint –
Berries have a strict entrance criteria (TTC #1, over 30, TTC for 12+ months, NO instadiffers, must have a special pot and definitely no mention of baby dust or baby dancing).
Those not abiding by the rules may be escorted from the premises.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, lovely day (although I was at work) and the picnic and outdoor theatre in the evening which was just perfect. I have to say that, within the last couple of weeks I've managed to recapture the feeling of enjoying life, and not just waiting it out from the sidelines until I get pg. I still want it more than anything though, and I don't know about you guys but the heartbreak from longer term ttc has probably already changed me forever.

beaky a rainbows plan and acu sounds good. Both things make me feel like I have something to work with. Yoga also helps me.

rain I hear you on the obsessing over everything! Being unexplained is indeed mentally exhausting - it's the hope that kills you as they say! At the moment I am choosing to believe that there is nothing wrong with me but on dark days I find myself frantically googling everything and anything.

feather wishing you all the best for your scan next Tuesday.

kuma when do you kick off ivf again? feathers acu lady sounds great - and the results of studies about acu and ivf do suggest it helps, so fingers crossed this will work for you this time.

barking ffs on the continued bleeding. Hope you are managing to enjoy your holiday.

The end of the week is in sight. First free evening in over a week and I need to tidy the house before I can relax!

Hi all, sorry for not being around for a while. I think that I am finally starting to pull my head out from behind the duvet! I have had a quick look back but there is so much to catch up on I can't be specific (sorry bad berry will do better!), but congratulations to those who have confirmed bumps; I'll continue to send positive berry vibes your way. For those who are struggling a little I am also thinking about you .

So after 4 weeks off work and a week of drugs for anxiety nearly all of my friends have had their bumps become babies. I have one more friend left but I really do not begrudge her and have everything crossed for her.

I can honestly say that I did not think the whole IVF process would be so difficult. And so now I am faced with the decision of whether or not I would be utterly stupid to try our next cycle with this period which is due any day now. DH is keeping quiet on going for this cycle and I think that my friends would think that I'm nuts but this overwhelming desire to have a child is overtaking all self preservation and no one seems to understand this. Am I being utterly delusional?

Anyway enough about me, I promise to be a better berry. Hope you all manage to enjoy he sunshine whilst it is here!

Aww HB what a tough time you are having. and for you. Did you get any feedback about the last cycle? Do they know what, if anything they can do differently this time? I think if you are 100% ready to go for it, then yeah do, but you will know yourself whether you are ready or not. If you are not, although I know it's so hard to "miss" a cycle, it's only a month and in the end when you look back a month won't matter but your health does. Hugs x

Oh hb you are such a nice person. for you. You're not being delusional at all, you just want what seems to come so easily to the vast majority of people and you just really want it so feel like you could do it all again. beaky has said it really well and as she says a month is not that long in the scheme of things and if it takes that long to dust you and your husband down and feel ready then don't worry about it. Similarly if you're not ready for a while longer then that's find too. Must be so hard with all your friends having babies round you. You are a real trooper.

tiger glad you had a lovely birthday and glad you feel more in the thick of life, rather than a bystander. I can relate to that, a feeling of over planning or I won't do this or book this holiday in case I'm pregnant/ may become pregnant. It's actually really freeing when you shake all of that off. Which is how I felt after we booked our futtc holiday. I think it has changed me a bit but also I think we can decide how much power we are going to let it have over us. I think, when it was bad, it was starting to make me bitter, angry, a bit self destructive and envious of other people and I'm not like that. I think, on the other hand, it's also taught me to not over-plan, to be grateful for what I do have and to be more appreciative and ready. I think you learn but it's up to you if you want the negativity to be with you and be part of your story, if you always rehash it and think about it, it will be part of you but if you try to let go or take from it the positives then you have a chance of rewriting your story. ( my woo yoga teacher read something like this from a book called the secret or the second one!)

HB have you got any actual clinical advice as to the advisability of doing this now or deferring?

Tiger yes it changes us all, especially I would guess those who have been through it longest like some on here. But in a good way. I haven't been through half the shit some on here have, but I know there are now things I would never say and things I can empathise with that I wouldn't have before.

Tiger I think it does change us, you can't unknow what this is like and the stuff that goes with ttc long term if you know what I mean. But as RP says it is a change for the better as well, I know I had no empathy with people who had been through this or were struggling (quite embarrassed thinking of the IVF'ers I know and what I may have said!) but now I'll hopefully be a better friend. And when we do all get our babies we will be so grateful and hopefully super happy amazing parents!

Totally rp. I cringe at the questions I used to ask people re kids, the kind of stuff that I would never ask now and would hate to be asked! I think it's taught be to never say never and to not be so definite about things. At one point I said I'd never do Ivf, things change! And I think it's taught me to try to see the other side and not be so judgemental, if you know what I mean.

Hi hb I hope you are feeling better for the time off work. It really is tough to go through IVF and not get pregnant. It must be so hard seeing babies and bumps amongst all your friends, I know I have found it really hard at times. Perhaps just take the time out to feel really ready for the next cycle if you are uncertain whether or not to go ahead this month. Do whatever feels right for you.

Wise words bushy my dear. I think letting go of some of the negativity has really helped me, although I can't guarantee that I'll avoid dark days when af comes around. I'm reading a mindfulness book that comes with an 8 week mediation CD which I'm about to start. I already feel I have learnt a lot and I'm only a couple of chapters in to the book.

I agree that the whole experience really does help with empathy towards others. I would always happily ask people if they were planning children, and now I wouldn't dare ask as it feels so personal and intrusive. I just have to watch out that I don't assume every childless couple has a sad story, when in fact it is a positive choice they have made.

So, a classic berry questions (and apols in advance for tmi) but any one have any tips for improving CM? I don't seem to get any EWCM these days, despite having nice clear ovulation charts and I'm wondering if this is my missing link?!

I spent 54 quid in Holland and Barrett on the way home from work today, and that was with a load of things being half price! The supplement advice is from my acu lady and catching rainbows, so it feels reasonably legitimate, but at the same time, I feel like a bit of a pratt to be honest with you, taking a load of supplements! It did also include OH's wellman vits, but still, it's a hell of a lot.

Tiger, I think some cough medicines can help with the EWCM though not entirely sure which ones exactly. Failing that, have you tried using some sperm friendly lube like Preseed?

Sorry you're struggling a bit HB. I would give yourselves another month or so if that's possible, given how demanding IVF is. Also you responded well to treatment last time so you should take some positives from that.

Oh HB, sorry you've had such a tough time. If you feel ready for your next round of IVF go for it, better to seize the day than wait if you are going to regret waiting. But if you are not ready, a month won't make such a difference.

feather thanks for the details, hopefully this will help with my next IVF. According to the info sheet it should start off after the scan next week, but the info is assuming you are doing a cycle on long protocol, whereas I'm supposed to be on a natural cycle. I don't think they do the natural cycle the month they do the tests, so I would be looking at end of August, but I'm on holiday then, so I'm guessing September will be my time.

tiger what did you get in your Holland and Barratt haul? I've just started my vitamin regime today, so am taking DHEA, Co Enz Q10, Pregnacare, some extra folic acid and now I've thrown in some Evening Primrose too. I am sure I must rattle when I walk

I agree that after you've experienced a long TTC journey you are more mindful about the questions you ask people. I was never the type to ask people when they plan to have kids, but I certainly wouldn't ask anybody now, and I cringe when I hear anybody asking the question.

Sorry to drop in quickly, knackered and about to fall asleep. Just wanted to say, HB, I know where you're coming from. The intensity and stress I felt going through the IUI totally took me by surprise, and that's far shorter and less invasive than IVF. We're now waiting for our recurrent miscarriage appointment and tests so a ttc break has been forced on us, but even before we got that referral we I decided a break was required. It was the best decision ever. I feel more like my old self and far less stressed. I've had 5 weeks of bleeding (only very light today, surely that's it now?!) but have been feeling remarkably serene for the past couple of days. If you can cope with one month out, it might do you a world of good. Each to their own though, different things work for different people. Just wanted to let you know my experience, as I was wondering at the start whether we'd made the wrong choice and should have just jumped in for the next round asap.

Kuma what do dhea and coeq10 help with?

tiger I've heard grapefruit juice is good for ewcm but not tried it. Maybe I should too, I have used preseed when I've not had much in the past! And yes what did you get in h&b?

I also agree with Barking re the break, my last cycle dh decided was going to be a proper break for both of us and it definitely helped me focus on other things.

Beaky they both help with egg quality. DHEA is also often recommended for low ovarian reserve.

I thought you couldn't get dhea in this country kuma. I used to take co enzyme q 10 for egg quality. I did properly rattle at one point as was taking: folic acid, maca, co enzyme, royal jelly, vit c and zinc, vitamin d and evening primrose oil up to ovulation. I think it had got a bit obsessive near end so dropped the maca and evening primrose. I have low ovarian reserve so wanted to do everything in my power to improve the eggs I did have.

Now ECM, this used to be my speciality. I tried grapefruit juice. It's gross so use the pink one and it needs to be not from concentrate so I would buy the tropicana one and drink it after af cleared off , up until after ov. It did make a difference. You could mix it with lemonade to get rid of yucky taste. The cough medicine works too, you need one with a particular ingredient in it, I forget now what it is but it should come up with a quick google, think it was guafenisen or something like that. I used the tesco dry cough one, it's cheap and works. Other ways are via diet: bean sprouts, carrots, goji berries, kiwis, peppers and drink a shit load of water. Your body won't waste effort making it, if you're not hydrated.

I'm dying to know what you've got from hb too tiger what's the mindfulness book you are reading? I like the sound of that type of thing and would like to give it a try.

hb a break mid-clomid cycles did me a world of good last year. I think it's easy to underestimate the stress you're under when going through treatment and that your mind and body needs to replenish. Obviously, you know what's right for you though. It really is only a month and perhaps a month of drinking and eating what you like and having some fun would be a good thing? Hope you're ok.

tiger preseed is very good. Agree that long term ttc changes you. I know I'm certainly a different person to who
I was a few years ago. Not worse or better, just feels like the world's been tilted a little. It's really made me think before I speak and have more empathy for others. But the main thing is that it's taught me that comparing myself to others is pointless and poisonous. It's hard not to do it sometimes, but after so many bfps in such close rl proximity, I had to learn not to become bitter.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll get some grapefruit juice and up my water intake and see if that does anything. We have used pre-seed on occassion, but perhaps we'll try a cycle of using it every time. I It never used to be a problem but I don't think I have had any for the last three cycles....

bushy the book is called mindfulness: finding peace in a frantic world. I've only read a couple of chapters, but I added the meditation CD to my ipod last night ready to start the meditations. It asks you to commit to doing it for 8 weeks, so I am kicking it off today.

feather I think you are absolutely right about comparing yourself to others, I have really struggled with that, and feeling a failure in comparison to my friends. The worst thing is, I have dealt with it by avoiding a lot of them, when actually I need to deal with it by taking responsibility for my own happiness.

kuma is your vitamin regime recommended by your FC? It's hard to know what to go for, there are so many out there and conflicting advice everywhere!

The Holland and Barratt haul wasn't particularly interesting. His and Hers pregnacare conception vitamins, Co Enzyme Q10, extra magnesium and B6 to build on what is in the conception vitamins (based on advice from Catching Rainbows plan) and Omega 3/6/9 as recommended by my acupuncturist. I also chucked Royal Jelly in on a whim. Don't think I can keep this expense up on a monthly basis but will give it a couple of months and see what happens....

I'm very glad it's Friday, and a quiet weekend ahead just doing stuff locally and having friends over.

Hope everyone else is ok!

Morning ladies, won't name check and I'm still catching up on who is who. I'm half way through my Letrozole cycle and waiting to see when I'll ovulate if I do at all.

I think two pregnancies are due to be announced at work and I'm feeling hopelessly sad that I can't have a baby. Especially thinking about my 1st mc and how I'd be giving birth any day now if I hadn't lost my little baby.

Does it ever get easier? X

Ok so I have been a bad berry and not messaging everyone, I have kept up to date with all your news but after our IVF failed I needed a bit of time not posting. But I am back and have caught up on most peoples news - so apologies in advance for the long post whilst I catch up.

Our recent copter grads, bushy, rp, feather and win I have fingers crossed for those of you with 12w scans next week (I have been stalking the copter to follow your progress).

tiger a belated happy birthday and I hope you are not rattling too much with all those drugs. I have only ever taken the all in one prenatal tablets, am wondering if I should be on anything else. My FC only wanted assurance over folic acid so I have not tried anything else. Wouldn't know where to start in choosing supplements though.

HB I really feel for you having friends popping out babies when you have been through failed IVF like us. In that respect I have been lucky that all my friends seem to be done having their babies, they are all toddlers or older now. I wouldn't start again unless you both feel you can cope with it again. It is such a full on process that I don't think you can fully appreciate until you have been through it, and you need to both be ready. But only the 2 of you know, so take some time together to discuss. These men of ours keep everything to themselves.

kuma do you know when you will be starting your natural IVF cycle? I don't know much about that, many drugs involved? How long does it take?

beaky sorry to hear about your cysts, sometimes life really does mess with us. Bring on the FUFC!

batking hope your bleeding finally has stopped, glad to hear you are feeling more serene. When is your appointment at the recurrent mc place?

gill did your drugs arrive? Exciting times. Are you on long protocol? DO you have an estimated time for EC/ET?

rain I am also unexplained and felt a mixture of failure and relief when we started our IVF treatment. Failure because surely I should be able to do this, and they have found no issues as to why it is not happening, but relief that in a way the pressure was being taken off myself and DH, and put in the hands of the doctors. If you have any questions about IVF please ask.

kitten has your DH done his SA yet? I have the same issue with my DH last year, took him over 2 months to finally get around to it. I think they are just scared but don't know how to tell us.

cat a belated welcome to the berries. They are a fab bunch and not all as bad as me at posting!

seren so sorry to hear about your cancelled cycle. Do you have a review meeting booked in yet to see if they have any answers/information that might help next time?

happy it can't be long until your wedding? 2/3 weeks? Hope the planning is going well.

chloe how are you doing? Any further blood tests or are you waiting on a scan?

Hi to wild and nolly and anyone else I have missed

AFM, we have booked our FUTTC holiday, we will be off to a Sandals resort in St Lucia in 6 weeks time . It is lovely to have something positive to look forward to and then when we get back we will start another round of IVF. We have our review meeting on the 4th Aug so we will see what they say about our last cycle. We have just told both our Mum's about it, mine was very matter of fact, my MiL cried and offered us anything she could to help us financially or just as a shoulder to cry on.

I am also fed up of people telling me about stories they have heard where someone had failed IVF and then got pg the next month due to all the drugs having reset their system, even my reflexologist had one of those stories yesterday! At the moment we are doing our best to put ttc out of our heads and just enjoy sex.

Anyway, if you have read this far then you are an excellent berry. Hope all you teachers are enjoying a well deserved break, and everyone else it is almost the weekend x

Morning Berries. Great to see you back lumen. Still thinking of you. The holiday sounds amazing!! Hope everyone else is ok
DP and I are heading down to Dorset for the weekend then back to Somerset for the rest of our break. Planning to visit the fertility giant at Cerne Abbas at some point so I'll give him a pat for all of us! Left home much later than expected due to a crazy lady from our street knocking our door ranting and raving because a letter/cheque for us had arrived at her house so she'd phoned the police because we are " using her address". WTAF?? We live at no 88 and she's no 80 so easily done. Absolutely barking
lumen the wedding is 3 weeks Monday. Getting close now!
SIL gave birth to our niece yesterday which I'm thrilled about but not sure how I'm going to handle actually holding a newborn. Not had to do it since we started TTC. Still got until Tuesday to work up to it as we are away until then.
Hope everyone has a fantastic weekend and enjoys the gorgeous weather. Will check in later, signal permitting.

Bet the police loved that happy. Enjoy your time away and don't get too stressed over the next three weeks

Hey lumen good to have you back. A futtc holiday to St Lucia sounds amazing! Enjoy what life has to offer - there is so much to enjoy and thankful for, and back to feather's mantra - your turn will come. I really do believe it, for all of us.

3 weeks happy how exciting! Hope the final prep is going well. Perfect weekend to be in Dorset - we camped there last year and the weather was like this so it was great! The newborns are tough, I find I'm fine at the time but prone to a teary moment once back home. I do love a newborn cuddle, just want it to be mine!

I have been feeling very chirpy all week but I can feel the 2ww mentalness kicking in...the second week always sends me a bit bonkers. Am aiming for maximum distraction next week to get through it!

Oh wow lumen you will have an amaze balls time. St Lucia is amazing!! We went last year for our futtc holiday and it was worth every penny. Go and see the pitons, absolutely beautiful from the sea so do a boat ride. We went zip lining- totally recommend that and do the Friday night 'jump off', it's the st Lucian street party, it's a bit mental but great and drink a shit load of cocktails!! Rum baby!! We did tubing, which was hilarious. Which sandals are you at? We stayed at a smaller resort that I cannot recommend highly enough to anyone in need of a futtc holiday and absolute spoiling!

Aww just heard that someone I know and their dh have split up after ttc for years without success. Am gutted for them and just really shocked too. It's so sad.

Tiger you've been doing so well with the chirpyness! Don't let the 2ww drag you down! Easier said than done I know.

Lumen your holiday sounds like it will be lush! 6 weeks will fly here too. Good luck for your review meeting, hope it gives you some info to help for next time. I nearly had a tear when I read about your mils reaction there too, so sweet.

Happy that lady sounds mental!! Enjoy your break away though, and your 3 weeks will fly here! I wish I was getting married again (to the same guy thankfully!)

Hope everyone is enjoying their Friday nights!

tiger your birthday night sounds lovely. Lucky you and good old DP. I cannot believe the amount of vits and supplements on your list. I'm going to go off and Google some of those. I lost faith in the (basic) supplements I was taking as they made no discernible difference. However, I'm wildly impressed by the Berry knowledge and will be looking into some of the supplements suggested.

Just one word of warning to anyone taking thyroid medication check if any vitamins interfere with your medication and leave a few hours at least between taking medication and supplements

HB nice to see your little head poking out from under the duvet. I have no experience to be able to rightly advise you about what is the right thing to do. Mostly decisions are not 100 per cent good idea versus 100 per cent bad idea, there are always pluses and minuses to each choice. I'm sure you will find what's best for you.

lumen lucky you off on holiday! Sounds fab-u-lous. It sounds as if you had a supportive reaction from both your mums, which is a bonus.

seren really sorry to hear your news. Will you be getting any more details as to why that happened?

cat welcome to the Berries. You've had a long road, my lovely. Hopefully it will all be downhill from here!

Happy three weeks to your wedding! Are we getting any details wrt your dress? Please, please pretty please. (Begs on knees.)

Very interesting to hear everyone's reflections on the stresses and strains of IVF and especially when cycles fail. I totally dread having to go through that. I suspect that the reality of IVF is way, way more stressful than I've bargained for. I made an initial appointment with a clinic this week and promptly burst into tears once I'd hung up the phone. The receptionist was lovely, but the realness of what I was doing overwhelmed me.

Sorry if this is all a little woo, but my yoga teacher read this out at the end of class today, and I thought it was lovely and also somehow very relevant for us all:

It only takes a reminder to breathe,
a moment to be still, and just like that,
something in me settles, softens, makes
space for imperfection.
The harsh voice
of judgment drops to a whisper and I
remember again that life isn’t a relay
race;
that we will all cross the finish
line;
that waking up to life is what we
were born for.
As many times as I
forget, catch myself charging forward
without even knowing where I’m going,
that many times I can make the choice
to stop, to breathe, and be, and walk
slowly into the mystery.