TTC 10+++ months part 18

[Mrsden]

This is the BFP thread.

Raydown, I had visions of our donor cuddling the baby and me having total jealous meltdown! I am sorry you feel so down about this, but I understand, and I know what you mean about finding life easier. I don't want to have to think about this much longer. I have new hobbles to buy, holidays to go on, we might even move abroad.

Euro I didn't know you still had some bleeding, I hope it means nothing but I'm not surprised you can't believe it. When my SiL found out she was pregnant with her second, on the first month of trying, she told us all the day she took the test. And that was it, perfect baby 8 months later. It's a different world.

So wish me luck, I'm about to phone our clinic and see what happens next.

Nelly – i’ll be following closely what you decide to do – the anon route or the other route. I was reading a lot about Serum in Greece who do DE and how carefully the main woman there chooses the matches for people but it is anonymous by law but who knows whether that will change. Yes I can imagine using your friend as the ED adds a huge layer of complexity but really you have a friend for life there. Such a lovely thing for her to have offered. Good luck with the phone call.

Free – i’m pleased you’re ok. it is real it but after so long, how can anyone believe it. hope next week’s scan comes round quickly.

Ray – i don’t believe it will happen for us but I think it was Ten who said that she had to believe it would happen one day and that’s what keeps her going. I kind of do that on and off. When I don’t think like that, I feel absolutely ghastly. I know Mrden’s motility and count is below normal but those numbers really don’t seem that bad compared to some but i guess none of it is within our hands and we are all relying on some miracle. But i know what you mean about getting more and more worked up about it over time and that is so exhausting. Personally, if I completely give up, I worry about never properly being happy again. If I have good, happy days, it never lasts and everything goes back to not having children. I have never in my life experienced such repetitive downers as I have done in the last 4 years.

Euro – sorry to hear that you are still on and off bleeding. That’s horrible.

raydown that's interesting. Mr euro's count was always around 10-12 million, although motility was fine (over 50%) but the drs always breezed over his results and went back to prodding and poking me! Mr ray's are not that much different and you have (I think) been told pretty much that ICSI is the only way.

Good luck nelly. The donor discussions add so much more to think about. It is definitely a different world for the instadiffers.

devon it's kind of permanently on rather than on and off! I know I haven't actually mc'd because there have been no clots, but who knows if everything is still going well in there. Someone needs to invent a wombcam for crazy nervous preggos.

cos I am so sad for you that you have experienced more utter crap on this shitty, shitty journey. I understand that you feel like taking a break but if you need to talk. I am thinking of you.

euro I am sorry that you have had blood still. When will the head fuckery end? When is your next scan?

Nelly It is great that you have decided to move on with DE. I'm not surprised that you didn't go down the friend route. I can understand totally that it would add a layer of complexity that wouldn't be helpful. I'm sorry that you had such an epic chat with MrNelly. It sounded like some of the "chats" me and MrP have had and it's a wonder he is still alive!!!

I am finding myself laughing at how many of us don't actually enjoy spending time with small people! It is a rarity for me these days to be in close quarters with children but I have to admit when I am I find it utterly tiring and largely boring. I do sometimes get the sweats when I look around my house and imagine having to child proof it or imagine kiddie filth on my white curtains or horrors on my scatter cushions disclaimer doggy gozzle is perfectly acceptable ! Its hard though because I do remember what a joy my nephew was as a child and how much I enjoyed (and still do) looking after him and the light he bought into my life. I think often about how I used to look at him and well up because I loved him so much. It is sad to think I will never experience that again.

Ray I am with you on the giving up hope thing. I fail to believe that after almost four years the miracle will happen for me but yet despite this I still get a bit pissed off when it doesn't happen each cycle and I am still almost incredulous. Having said that, thankfully the disappointment isn't the same as it used to be, it is more of a tut than a meltdown. ten we have a similar plan to you though it has evolved more into when the dogs are no longer with us kind of plan rather than when we have given up on kids plan. devon You hit the nail on the head when you said about the fear of not being truly happy. I worry constantly about that.

free Do let us know how your scan goes next week.

The weird thing is though, as my friends kids get older, I feel better again. There are some amazing "little" people amongst them, some of whom I love spending time with. But increasingly I'm getting my friends back as their kids grow up. They want to go out for dinner, drink wine, talk about interesting things, come and stay with us. Go on skiing holidays. Plan weekends away without ankle biters. So where once I thought childlessness would segregate us, now I see it is only temporary. Unless of course we eventually become the antisocial, exhausted, vom-covered hermits .

I haven't called yet. Pure distraction, nothing more. I will go and do it now.

On a related note by the way, I think we've decided we would do DET if we get to that stage. We now want our life disrupted once only, so we can get to the "easier" stage quicker. I am beginning to wonder how devoted we really are!

OFFS it closes early on a Tuesday.

OFFS. How annoying!

Handholds to all of you, men killing free and euro, I am keeping everything crossed for perfect development in there. I know how hard it is to believe! I am currently believing, aftera good anomaly scan yesterday. I hope it'll last, I am enjoying it.

To hope or not to hope! I think the strategy depends on state of stuff how many failed attempts etc and personality. For me not believing was and is self protection more than anything else. My counselling taught me to face my deep desire for a baby, altho difficult it gave me the strength desparation to continue. What I am trying to say is deal how you need to and lean on us!

I can completely understand your choice against the friend, nelly, however lovely the offer. Will be following you closely and willing those miracles to happen! Btw I concur w older kids being fun.

Just waves and hugs all round!

That was total count though euro. 0ver 15mil per ml is considered normal. Average is 20 -40 per ml. So, it's very, very low.

I mean 8mil in whole sample not per ml, sorry I didn't explain that well. cotton wool head this evening for me!

Nelly - It's a big step to move onto DE. I think it makes a lot of sense to go with an anon donor. As lovely an offer as your friend made, it must be v difficult to imagine your baby with your friend.

Euro - I am sorry you are still having to deal with on/off bleeding. It's a good sign that there are no clots. I am hopeful it's just more implantation bleeding. Nonetheless it must be so worrying and a headfuck you don't need after everything you have done to get here.

Ray - Have your docs given you and MrD a cause for the low sperm count? Is it treatable? Even with a low-ish count, there is no reason why ISCI can't resolve. You also have frosties (as I recall) so it's not the end of the road. The daily battle of dealing with this must be draining though.

Devon - Your post made me feel v sad. I am sorry every happy event is tinged by sadness of not being able to have children. Have you heard back from the NHS yet? Will you consider Serum? I know lots of FF ladies who have been there. It seems to be the next place after the Argy and I have read many success stories.

Pout - Funny how doggie mess on perfect furniture is fine but kids less so. Hope is a funny thing. I gave up hope of natural conception 3 yrs into TTC but there was always a little voice that told me that it could happen (ie you read/hear about it all the time - why not me etc.) Did you have your consultation with the new PCT hospital?

Free - I hope the men killing isn't too bad. Counting down the days until your scan next week with you.

AFM, I am in a pretty bad place. Not due to men killing for OTD on Sunday. I have started to feel really ill in the last couple days - I get up and the room is spinning around, severe bloating, nausea and just generally feel really really unwell. I can't find any position to get comfortable as the bloating goes from my lower belly all the way to the top - like I am stuffed to the brim. I struggled on and work till 8pm last night but have had to take the day off today as I feel so sick. Woke up in the middle of night to go to the loo and fell on the floor as I lost all sense of balance. MrS is worried about OHSS and I am secretly thinking the same (don't want to worry him). Have contacted the clinic but still waiting for someone to call back. I have also developed an insatiable appetite for tomato juice but before we get too excited that this is a preggo craving - I don't think you can have cravings this early. Right now I am just wondering when I will feel normal again. I think all the ivf meds, steroids etc. have broken my body.

Sea, it does sound like ohss. I think you should insist that the clinic see you today. Are you still drinking plenty of fluids?

Oh Sea I am sorry you are feeling horrible. I thought ohss was a risk up to a week after EC so you have passed that now, however worth getting checked just in case. Although the tomato juice craving is very suspicious. I did meet someone on test day this time last year and she was feeling horrendous and was dizzy etc. Bumped in to her a month later and she was still sick but was expecting twins. Some people can get symptoms really early especially with two and for some pregnancy really affects them. Plus all the drugs etc etc. I hope you feel better soon and I hope it is a positive sign rather than anything else.

Devon is right, it could be pregnancy symptoms. OHSS can develop later and is even more likely if there is a pregnancy so I think you should be seen just to have that ruled out. I hope you feel better soon.

10-12m was total count for mr euro too, ray. I could never understand why very little attention was paid to him.

sea that doesn't sound right. I hope the clinic calls you back soon.

I developed a very early desire for yoghurt and cheese. I'm lactose intolerant... I find I still want loads of them now. My stomach doesn't like me very much at the moment. I have some very impressive bloating. And was offered a seat on the tube last night . I was feeling a little dizzy so maybe I just looked pale though...

nelly I think it sounds sensible. I've been thinking lately that if this one works out, I think I will want to stop there. I can't face putting myself through all this again. I haven't spoken to mr euro about it yet though.

pout I have no more scans scheduled at the moment. Under normal circs, the next scan would be the 12 week NHS one in a month (which seems a very long way off). But we will probably do the Harmony test privately and I understand they usually do a quick viability scan first. If we go for that, that would hopefully be a couple of weeks off (which still seems like a very long wait!). I'm still bleeding, a little more heavily again today. It's worrying, but unless it gets red or really heavy I'm trying not to freak out about it. (Yeah right).

Afternoon lovelies!

I completely understand the "this and never again" feeling, euro. Although because we still have frosties we'll probably do more FET rounds, as I'd hate the thought of potential children lingering in the freezer and possibly being destroyed. But it is such a complete headfuck.

Loving the fact that dog slobber is a completely different and acceptable thing from child-slobber. How is the craft emperium poutster?

As to DET nelly, I think the choice depends on what's important to you and mrN. If it is having a child, after experiencing the pregnancy, it makes perfect sense to cut out the worry of fertilisation and everything. However, if you and mrN prefer a genetic link, than DE-IVF might be the way. It's all about what you're wanting from a child. For us it was very much raising a child and giving it the opportunity to be loved and develop, so we would not have gone down D-gametes, but would have gone for fostering and/or adoption. We're actually still considering it for a sibling but only after we finish the frosties, see above.

Sea have you got hold of the clinic yet? It does sound like OHSS and it's more likely if you're pregnant and without wanting to scare you, it's dangerous. If the clinic does not get back to you and you continue to feel this bad you need to get yourself checked out in hospital, you might need IV-fluids. With your number of eggs and a double transfer (and thus possibly twin-pregnancy) I think you're high risk. My clinic considers anything over 15 eggs a serious concern for OHSS and it gets worse with pregnancy hormones.

I don't think you OH's numbers are all that bad, ray. I know SB's dipped occasionally, and the time I got diffed and mc-ed, it was IUI with about 4 million swimmers (which is too low, but hey, it sort of worked). I am holding out hope for you still, I am frustrated about the rules and regulations, but letting more of them develop til day 5 might be all you need. Of my ten embryos 3 were discarded and 7 looked good enough to transfer/freeze. You can always promise to pick them up later, and instead flee back to the UK once your family is complete.

Think of you all! I am liking the name devonloch a lot, you make me think of different holidays every time I read it!

Sea - I hope you are

Sorry, sea I hope you are ok and are getting checked out.

Lemon- forgot to say how pleased I am that your scan was ok. Must be exciting! Realised this name is actually bad luck in the world of horse racing- perhaps should have chosen a racehorse that didn't fall a few feet before the finishing line!

Nelly - I was going to ask what DET was but now I know seeing lemon post above. I looked in to that at one point and quite liked the idea but Roy was anti. It is amazing the choices we can make now though.

Cos- thinking of you

I'm confused. Is DET donor embryo transfer or double embryo transfer? I read it as the latter, but I think drizz has understood the former.

sea I hope you have been checked out.

cos I hope you are holding up ok.

I also thought double embryo transfer because nelly said about only wanting to go through it once. nelly you're going to have to put us right!

I'm confused about the sperm count now. We have been told by 4 different doctors (two urologists, two fertility doctors) that DH's count is very low and would be highly unlikely for us to get pregnant without icsi. Perhaps it's the combination of poor motility (although he has had good motility on some samples) and poor morphology. Or maybe the counting is different. The 8 mil is the total in the sample and I've checked our results and the normal result should be greater than 39mil. Per ml it should be greater than 15 mil and DH scores 2.something each time. I can't understand why male factor hasn't been diagnosed for you euro. You didn't need ICSI though did you and you always had good fertilisation so there were clearly good swimmers in that petri dish.

ray they suggested ICSI on our first round as the count was particularly low then, but not on any of the others, and out of 10 eggs over 4 rounds only one didn't fertilise at all. Mr euro's count is both per mil and total count - he only ever produces around 1ml! I've always thought male factor was an issue, tbh, perhaps combined with a less than ideal environment on my part.

I think his numbers did improve a bit for the later rounds when I finally got him taking his vits and doing the "vvankalot protocol" (every other day) that some clinics recommend. But his official SAs were all pretty poor.

Thanks for your advice and concern ladies. Spoke to clinic in the morning and was told to up my water intake to 4 litres a day. Not easy when you want to vomit everytime you put something in your mouth. Anyway got worst in the afternoon and threw up a lot. Went to clinic for scan and ovaries are enlarged and fluid retention in pelvic area. Beginnings of ohss apparently. Was given iv drip and anti sickness. Now back home. still bloated and sickly.
Sorry for the selfish post. Will catch up with everyone soon.

Sorry! I meant Double....!

Didn't read all the way to end. Glad they saw you Sea but oh no! Hope you feel better soon and are carefully monitored. Big hugs x