TTC 10 months + Part 17.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

For all the lovely 10+ers, and anyone else lurking, who has been trying for long enough to start worrying. This is a great place to rest until the elusive BFP shows up.

It is very quiet on here, I hope that's a sign everyone is in a good place. Or palace

rabbit when do you start with the first injection?

nelly you are very lucky to have such a wonderful friend. It's great that you have this as an option and it sounds like a good idea to explore the feasibility of it.

joy it's so frustrating that money dictates the next option. I do think ivf abroad can be a really good idea especially because it means you're forced to leave the everyday stresses of work behind and just focus on the ivf.

Sorry not to catch up with everyone else but I have to get to work. I had my scan this morning, an abdominal one which surprised me. I suspect it was because I told him I was still bleeding, I guess you avoid the mess if you can. He seemed to be able to see clearly enough. Uterus looked fine, and no cysts on the ovaries so I'm downeregged enough and start stimming tomorrow. I'm on something called Pergoveris which is a mix of LH and FSH so probably from old women's pee too. I have a scan booked for next Friday. It's a bit annoying that my usual dr will be on holiday then so I have to see someone else but I don't suppose it matters. Shocked at the cost of the drug, surely old women's pee isn't in short supply. We should start a business.

I know this is a how long is a piece of string question but if I start stimming tomorrow when do you think ec might be? After 2 weeks downregging, how many days stimming do you think there might be? I'm trying to work out if I should book a few days off work.

The palace has so many rooms we've lost each other .

Hard to say MrsD. Say 12 days? I dunno, I've had 8, 10 and 16, and that's without DR. I guess your best idea will be to see at the first scan. This last cycle I went for a sickie. Kept my work ahead of schedule so that nothing was needing done immediately. Depends on your job as to whether that's feasible though!

mrsden I think it would be really hard to book time off work now. I just found my LP chart but I guess there is a lot of variation from cycle to cycle. I down regged for a total of 22 days which includes an overlap with stimming for 6 of those days, 8 more days of stimming alone, the trigger, the 'day off then EC. As a point of contrast for SP I was only on stims for 7 days. I seem to remember my Dr gave me a very confident sounding timetable when I started LP which totally out, his expectation was a faster cycle, although in my case it was the down regging that took the time.

Mrsd, just my 10p, I was DRing for about ten days, then stimmed on top of it for 13 days. It really dependance on your response and the effect from the DRing. I stim v fast on SO cycles as my own hormones hurry things along, never more than 8 or so days! But DRing changes all that! It also depends on your stimming dose, lower might mean longer..,

Still hiding, here! It's 7 weeks tomorrow, scan in 7 sleeps...

Try to read but am away hence the rest of my silence!

I quite like this palace is it an upgrade from the tent ?

Day 2 here and sitting in Dr waiting room having begged an appointment from the receptionist. She "squeezed me in" because I told her I'd been going through this for three years. (Only exaggerated by a few months but it worked)
OH thinks I'm down at the allotment. So I'm not sure how I'm going to tell him about this. He's now more convinced than ever that he just wants to let nature take its course. Though I thought he looked a little sad after we watched Dispicable Me last night. I may be imagining it but know he would love to have a daughter and there's some very cute father/daughter moments in it.

Coco, has he explained why he's so against it? Does he know how realistic your chances are without ivf?

Doll, any sign of baby doll? You must be getting bored of being asked that!

Lemons, great news you're still hanging in there!

So I don't think I can predict when ec is going to be then. I'm going to have to call in sick which I feel very guilty about but I can't book holiday at short notice and it looks like I won't know for certain until a few days before. I hope I will be ok with just taking the one day off. This is the stressful part for me, trying to fit it in around work and not let people down. I don't think I'd be able to cope with a clinic like yours joy

lemon 7 sleeps! Excited for you. This one's going to be the one, I feel it!

mrsd it's great that you are well on your way. Booking time off work can be a nightmare. The rest of the world seem to assume you can turn up to an appointment at a drop if a hat and seem confused by the concept of you working everyday (or maybe it's just banks and doctors)

rabbit it's so lovely that you are in a more positive place (or palace ) and that things are starting already!

afm - a short and sweet visit to the nurse. The specialist's notes said "Day 2 hormone profile" the nurse didn't know what this meant, so ticked all the boxes on the list, so I'll get tested for fsh,lh,testosterone,progesterone and two others I didn't recognise and now can't remember.

Not sure what I'm expecting from it but feel good that I've done something at least. I think OH doesn't like seeing me upset and want to just relax, forget about ttc, shag and hope for the best. I understand where he's coming from but if there is something fundamentally wrong that'll prevent it from happening then I'd rather know, instead if wasting our time.

Sorry babbling on about me again. Love and hugs to all you diffed and non-diffed lovely ladies.

xpost den

Don't feel guilty about taking a day sick. You work hard and the bastards owe you this time off so take it!

The Drs haven't really helped with the situation. All tests have come back normal, apart from the day21 which didn't happen that month (68 day cycle so something went screwy). Specialist said 'cos I'd been preg twice before then it's possible and I may not ov every month but I do sometimes. So essentially told us to go away and come back after we'd tried longer. OH hadn't wanted to go to that appointment in the first place so now thinks I should just chill out and stop obsessing

Thanks euro for the explanation for period blood testing. Did you feel it was worthwhile? Would it be worth it for unexplained infertility do you think?
Not sure what I am more surprised abt... that police think McCanns did it or that they are discussing it on FB!?

Cos How you doing now? I really hope things go back to “normal” soon. Have you made any decisions about what next? It is probably all too soon...

Nelly at palace. It is so lovely that you have such a close friend who would do this for you. What does MrNelly think?

MrsD How did you feel on DR aside from mood swings? I think pulling a sickie as Nelly did might be the best bet if your work is not flexible. I always found people are v understanding about boiler problems when you need time off especially now that we are approaching winter.

Hi Doll, are you there yet?

Lemons fingers crossed… Not long till your scan. Pls update!

Coco, how long have you been ttc? Have you tried OPKs? Would it be worth trying to get a referral to cycle monitoring and see if you can get an AMH, AFC tests done? I’m sorry to hear your DH doesn’t want to go to appointments. For what it’s worth I think you are doing the right thing getting fundamental tests done first. He could well be right and you just need to keep DTD and that would be great.

Waves to joy

Rabbit did the drugs arrive? When do you start taking them?

Hi sea. We've been ttc for two and a half years. Got first BFP after a year and mc'd at approx 10wks. Then got second BFP this March and mc'd at approx 8wks.
I have done opk's, and actually got updiffed the first time I got a positive opk. My cycles were nuts when we first started ttc between 30 to 72 days but after mc's and cutting out coffee and alcohol (nearly all he time) they have been amazingly regular. Once I get the results back from the test today I may take your advice and try and get a monitored cycle.

Hi coco... I'm sorry to hear about your m/cs. I think you are doing the right thing re investigations. What did your docs say about your m/cs? Did they suggest progesterone might be an issue? Would you consider immune testing? I'm not saying you should but it might be worth looking into. I have to confess to being v immune biased these days only because it's the only thing they have found "wrong" with me. I know it's still controversial.

Hi sea, they didn't say much about the mc's, apart from saying it was a good sign that things were working and dismissed them as "bad luck/one of those things"and they wouldn't investigate further until I'd had three. No one has suggested progesterone or immunes yet. I'm keen to find out about both if these! What is involved in testing your immunes? When I was preg the first time they mentioned checking for antibodies that related to me having rhesus negative blood. Essentially if the baby had rhesus positive blood I might have made antibodies to kill off a second pregnancy that also had rhesus positive blood. But they tested for this after first mc and it came back all clear. Is that the same thing?

Hi coco. TBH I don't know much about m/c testings but i don't think the rhesus test is the same as the immunology for fertility as the latter is not really recognised by nhs docs in the main. I have only heard of 1 person who was referred for these tests on the nhs - on here I think?!. Immunes is quite controversial and the hefa are still against them for the treatment of infertility / miscarriages. Almost all of these tests are done privately and often quite expensive. I don't know where you are based but there are a number of clinics in London that offer them. I think the whole theory is your immune system goes into overdrive and either prevents your embryo from implanting or cause miscarriage because your immune system thinks embryo is something alien in the body and fights it off. Not v scientific explanation I know. When I saw my doc at the clinic he said most people have no idea they have an overactive immune system but certain signs maybe things like hayfever, eczema etc.

I don't know anything about progesterone as I have never actually been pregnant but a good friend who had 2 m/cs have been told this is her problem. I think they can give you injections once you are preg or you can have bottom bullets. Again, I don't know if they will offer this on the nhs or if it's a private thing only. Perhaps some of the other 10 plussers will know?

My suggest to you would be to go to fertility friends and check out their immunes board and look at their progesterone forums. You might be able to find answers there.

For immunes - I have also read bits of this book
www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Body-Baby-Friendly-Unexplained-Infertility/dp/0978507800

Hello lovely 10 plussers, just popping into the palace to say hi (autocorrect has just modified '10 plussers' into '10 plus serfs' so not sure what we're doing in the palace, unless squatting? On which topic K Middy can fuck off with her flat post baby belly. Mine was never even that flat before).

Oh dear, first sentence an I've already digressed. I just wanted to say hello really, and offer love and gin to everyone at whatever stage you are at. Cos and Joy I'm really sorry for recent outcomes. It's not fecking fair. Quiet congratulations for recently diffed ladies and fingers crossed for good news scans. And tail feather shakes for IVFers. Rabbit I'm especially glad you got your head around it and as a fellow spotter I'm quietly hopeful for you. I think you're at the same clinic I went to for my EC and ET, I have nothing but good things to say about them, I was super anxious about ET in particular but they were just lovely and I feel sure that the care they took to reassure me and take the procedure extra slowly and carefully helped contribute to our positive outcome. I'm glad you seem more positive at the moment, remember to take it one day at a time and you'll be fine.

Interested in the NCT talk. We did NCT in the end because we felt we needed to meet people in our situation and I'm glad we did as I would have been very isolated now otherwise. At the time it also helped me get my head around being diffed as I didn't feel it was real for a very long time. It did wind me up that the others used to moan about being preggo but they weren't alone in that, it's not the easiest experience even when longed for and I reckon if I hadn't been so bloody grateful I would've been the same. Of the 4 other couples on my course 3 were instadiffers but the other had gone through 4 mcs before the pregnancy that worked out. She and I used to catch each other's eye and smile when the whinging started. Now though I really value the support network and while they all know we had IVF, it makes no difference at all. Mini Art is the same as any other baby (though better and prettier, obviously ) and the IVF cycle feels a very long time ago.

We are doing well. Mini A is almost 10 weeks old and developing fast. Mr A and I still can't quite believe she's really here.

Love to all. I still lurk on this thread and think of you all often. Happy weekends all.

art mini art is beautiful and better than the instadiffers babies :)

sea the McCanns were suspects right from the start, 97% of crimes are committed by someone known to the victim, my old landlord was a homicide detective and was involved in getting the McCanns under investigation, their behaviour is very odd and yes it is rare for couples to stay together in these circumstances.

I had my immunes done on the NHS but it is rare, there are no medical trials as of yet but hopefully after Prof Q and B's paper this might change but I imagine that will take time.

coco its crap that you make you wait until 3 miscarriages, I received treatment after 2 due to advancing age, immune testing can cost around £800-1000 + depending on what they actually test for, there are about 6 places that I know of who do the testing, some of the tests could be done on the NHS like the rhesus, TSH etc

rabbit did your drucks arrive??

euro thinking of you as I know your EDD is coming up

mrsd sorry I can't help you with the stimming but my fingers are crossed for you

cos and joy thinking of you both

nelly I thought you had been hobnobbing with royalty, glad you have had a good chat with your friend :)

Lemon- big handhold. You are going to be just fine.

Mrsd - that's good you are starting stimming. Would agree that it's impossible to predict when EC will be.

Coco - sorry Mrcoco is not on board. I do think you need to get to the bottom of your long cycles as this must be a factor in difficulty conceiving.. How many weeks were you and when was the last miscarriage ? It does annoy me that they won't investigate until 3. I think in America they investigate after 2. I don't think it's good enough to tell you that at least everything is working. I know for some people it is just bad luck but for many I bet it's not.
But I would have thought your nhs should at least be doing a monitoring cycle for you to see what is going on. Also I printed out level 1 immunes list and went to my GP and said I wanted those done and low and behold they did most of them. This may be a good starting point before investigating level2 immunes which is basically the Chicago tests and costs about £900.
A lot of this is like banging your head against a brick wall. Finance helps if you want to skip the nhs and investigate more complex areas but it doesn't necessarily bring you answers either.

Nelly - been in a palace eh, lovely!

Art - so lovely to hear from you and so glad mini art is doing so well. Your story still provides me with a great source of hope that this can work. Interesting to hear your perspective and I hope the few horrible years you had of TTC is now but a distant memory.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Hi artemis! so lovely to hear from you.

Thank you all for your advice.
buzzy I was hoping at 38 I might have been able to get away with two but the specialist wasn't in any hurry.
Thanks for the link sar. Where did you find a list of level 1 immunes joy? My last mc was six months ago and I was approx 8wks.

Enough thread hogging from me. I really appreciate all your help.

coco I thought the age was 35 up, you shouldn't have to wait and see they should be helping you now, level one are things like your thyroid etc

Coco - I took this list in printed out.

1. Full blood count, liver function tests, Urea and Electrolytes
2. Thyroid function tests (both free T4 and TSH)
3. Immunoglobulin panel (IgG, IgA and IgM)
4. Autoimmune antibodies (must include anti-nuclear antibodies, thyroid peroxidase and anti-mitochondrial antibodies)
5. Anticardiolipin antibodies (both IgC and IgM)
6. Thrombophilia (must include lupus anticoagualant, Factor V Leiden and Panthrombin gene mutation)

I have no idea what the above is all about and there were a few they couldn't do but when the results came back I was told all was normal and I asked for a print out for my file.

Buzz. - cant believe people suspect the parents! Perhaps I am not a good judge of character. Decided to ask my parents last night whether they would have left us like that and wandered a few minutes away for dinner and their response, "if we felt we were in a safe environment, absolutely we would have done.". note to self: if I ever have kids, find a babysitter other than my parents...!

Thanks joy I'll take that to Dr next visit

Hi all. Checking in and trying to catch up. Bare with me! I can't scrool that far back on stupid laptop. It hates me. waves to those posts that I am sure are there but I can't see!

Lemon - good to see you still around and hope you are more excited than nervous about the scan.

coco - I thought it was 6 mnths for over 35s so you have more than done your time. They should be giving you all the tests! Using joys list could help though, it helps to just go in with a plan I think. Not all GPs know about fertility like you think they should.

Den - absolutely do not feel bad about having a sick day. I do understand, I feel horrible guilt for everything! but this is so much more important that one day off work. And I bet there are people that take days off sick for much lesser reasons.

Art - Hi! Don't think I could have been around when you were but so nice to hear a success stories. Congrats on mini-Art!

AFM - AF started yesterday so another failed month. On with the clinic appointment. We will be using Complete Fertility in Southampton if anyone has had any experience with them? Not sure what to expect from an appointment at a fertility clinic. Just hoping for someone lovely and friendly!

Coco I did the same, took that list to the gp and they did them for me. It didn't show anything for me either, but worth getting whatever tests gp's will do I say. I'm sorry about your 2 mc's. Actually considering your irregular cycles to fall pg twice in 2 years by yourself is pretty good going, I can sort of see why your other half might be willing to wait and see - do you think deep down he's confident that it will happen for you without intervention and that's why he's willing to wait? How have your cycles been lately? I mostly want to fall pg, but also I massively want an 'answer' as to what is wrong, though I suppose I sort of have that.

Rabbit how are you lovely did the drucks arrive? Hope they didn't freak you out, it is an odd moment. Are you downregging first, or will you go straight to stimming? What stimming drugs will you be taking? I'm sorry about the A* announcement and the tears. It never gets any easier, and especially when you're not expecting it of someone. It makes me feel cheated somehow, in a double whammy of not having my own, and not being able to enjoy others either. Still you could well be joining her soon! I SO hope this round works for you, and think its great its at the same place Art went to, how reassuring.

MrsD that's great your starting stimming. What the others have said about EC is what I would say too. It is a nightmare combining with work, but I think you just have to be selfish and think that it's not often you would do that, you've probably done more than your share on other occasions, and some people would take loads of sick leave for this. I don't think we'll look back in the future and wish we were more conscientious about work (well that's what I tell myself!). You've done the hard downregging bit now so that's good.

Who else was starting ivf'ing, was it Ten? How's things going?

Joy I have to say I completely agree with you about the McCanns. I just think that after going through 5 years of ttc hell, and Ivf, then they finally get their dream family, I think they could be forgiven for thinking they'd had their share of shit times and life was good again, and now they've had all this. I don't believe for a second that they did it and now they're on crime watch still appealing for information? I do think they were completely un-security conscious and wonder if they'd had some expensive valuables on holiday with them whether they'd have thought a bit more about security. Joy I asked my parents the same question after it happened and they said they'd never have left us alone in a million years but that's them. Those poor twins, I just think its really sad and I hope they find her.

Buzzy it's lovely you still pop in, and you're right I do have a frostie left. It was a day 6 blasto and the worst out of the 9 embryos we have got to blasto stage. It's also at Eastbourne now where it would probably be cheapest to do an FET. So basically what I'm thinking at the moment is I'm happy to leave that one for my last ever go - it will be a low expectation (just because if 7 better quality ones didn't make it), low cost one that I think would be the best way to finish on. But while I do another fresh round I think knowing I have a frostie in the bank will help me, if that makes any sense. I'm thinking we'll do a fresh Ivf round in the new year some time but not sure where yet.

Art am so glad you're a success story. I missed out on the round of fb friend making, think I was in a funk at that point - I'd love to see a picture if you and anyone else wants to make fb friends with me? Not that I go on much, and i don't post anything much these days.

Sea when are your test results due? I am very interested in the whole immune theory, I have re-dug out my Beer book this last week and tried to make sense of it again.

Doll - go Doll go - thinking of you!

Nelly love the palace typo - I'm not sure i followed what you were saying about progesterone and your cycles and bleeding and what you thought might have been happening? I'm so glad you're still exploring options.

Lemon not long till your scan, I have everything crossed for you.

Mad hope you're having a lovely relaxing break.

Euro are you any closer to making a decision? Maybe just go with what you want to do rather than trying to decide what will logically give the best outcome?

Does anyone know much about prolactin levels? I was looking through some of my test results, and saw that I was tested for prolactin and my level was right at the top of the normal reference range. I've been googling and seen that high prolactin levels can be linked to low progesterone levels. This link says that mild high prolactin could cause lower progesterone and affect the readiness of the lining to be receptive to embryos. Anyone had any discussions about this with any doctors?
www.ivf1.com/prolactin-infertility/. And yes, I'm still busy clutching at straws and trying to distract myself from thoughts of what could have been etc!

Art, lovely to be friends with you on fb - I have to say, I know we take the mic out of people who go overboard with pictures of bumps and babies in fb, but crickey that is the lowest of low key new baby fb pages ever! I can see no bump pictures and only 2 baby photos! 2 very gorgeous photos though so I can see where there's quality, no need for quantity!! Beautiful.

Ps was trying to spot others of you from Art's friends list - like an odd game of guess who!