TTC 10 months + Part 17.

[MuddyWellyNelly]

For all the lovely 10+ers, and anyone else lurking, who has been trying for long enough to start worrying. This is a great place to rest until the elusive BFP shows up.

Hi rabbit.

1. My drugs were free with my NHS round.
2. I haven't taken menopur, but did take cetrotide on my natural modified cycle. The injection itself stings but I had no side effects from the drug (and you know I react to most things!).
3. I've had 4 scans each time whilst stimming.

You are on your way! Woo hoo!

at free drugs. I get mine half price but one dose of the enatone cost me €90. Drugs prices are outrageous.

But your cycles are much cheaper than private cycles here. CRGH is over 7k, without any of the additional testing we have discussed today.

True, still a lot of money when you get a bfn though. I think I worked out that it would still be cheaper for me to have my three subsidized cycles than one NHS and a private. I think that's one of the toughest things, that money is a consideration. We will probably have to stop after three because of money. We cant keep spending when the outcome is so uncertain. It's a gamble.

Cos lovely, you have been in my thoughts. I'm so sorry you are in this position and please do wail all you like. Clearly something fell into place this time, are there any embies in the freezer? This happens so often in the uber fertile world but when you've waited so long it feels as if it must be something more than bad luck (to me) but that's undoubtedly what it is but I'm not sure if that's comfort right now. What I'm saying in my garbled fashion is that I can totally understand why you would want to keep going but the pull of wanting to stop and make it all go away. I think it is such a good sign that things have changed. I so want this to happen for you

Joy. Can you just take your questions with you and force them to listen while Roy stands over the door so they can't leave?! They owe you every question in the world you might want to ask. Nhs policies vary a lot. I couldn't have had iui and then ivf until things changed this year, maybe look up your pct guidelines? Or forget to mention it... I've been thinking of you too.

Lemon how's it going? I think I would have terror every time I went to the loo. This time last year on my most exciting mega long cp cycle, by 17dpo I was actually shaking each time I went to the toilet. I might have to invest in black toilet roll!

Nelly have you had any more chats with your friend?

Dulcet, gps are notorious for giving you dodgy interpretations. Ours wrote H off as infertile on the basis of one iffy sample. Since then we've been told that it wasn't that bad and the latest sample was excellent. Her serious chat with us that conception wouldn't be possible caused a lot of unnecessary tears and upset. I do hope she didn't actually use those words? Did you get a number? My cons wanted prog to be more than 30.

Euro I'm glad you have a new plan. If only ivf was just a little pill. That made you feel nice.

Buzzy, stay here and let us know how you are. Having grads on here is really important to me

Critter, gin, sar, pout, mad, sea, den, rum, hello hello.

Wave to sea and rum

Thanks den and euro but poop to stingy injections. Menopur is made from the wee of post menopausal ladies. Eewww. Maybe I should drink my own wee

Also my progesterone suppositories are an odd name I don't recognise. Front door or back is next decision. As someone who is prone to both ibs and cystitis it's just too much of an exciting choice. But again, I need to get that far first..

Rabbit - she did use those words. Mediocre was the one that was most surprising to hear! Felt a bit sorry for my poor eggs, being judged in that way. I didn't get a number (can see euro asked this too). I might phone tomorrow and see if the receptionist can read me the actual stats. Phone call came after 7pm and took me by surprise really so I couldn't think of the questions on the spot.

Mrsd - not sure where you are based but completely agree that money being one of the toughest things if you get to that stage. Such large amounts but for something you want more than anything. A friend has eggs in the freezer following a successful round of IVF and still has to decide every year whether to pay to keep them there. I just think that's such a difficult thing to do. Let alone everything that goes with the treatment!

Menopur is made from the wee of post menopausal ladies

This needs a google from me! Science, huh? Crazy!

Dulcet do have another test if it is on the low side as you might not quite have got the seven days after ov. Also progesterone is nothing to do with egg quality or quantity as far as I know. My progesterone is fine but as you know the eggs are not. I think not ovulating is one of the more straightforward fertility ishoos. But mediocre indeed. Shame on her!

Yes. It's not called Menopur for no reason. Took me a bit by surprise. Who are these women?! Maybe it's just a compound modelled on wee is it just for hopeless cases? Most people seem to do gonal f? I'm trying not to google it as that's the protocol I'm on so there's no point evaluating it

Thanks for the advice rabbit. She didn't mention going for another test, maybe that's something else I should ask. I need another phonecall!

See now I am wondering who these women are and is this there job?! Do you get paid to supply their wee?? I think they should!

Sorry, have to correct my grammar. "is this their job?" is what I meant. And "do they get paid to supply their wee?"

Evening lovely ladies. Suddenly the thread got vey busy!

Dulcet, my advice would be to actually go and see your GP for the results if you can, and get a copy of all of them. The reason being, when I had mine done, over the phone he told me everything was ok, one was a little bit high but nothing out of the ordinary. We therefore didn't really push for the second SA etc, and by the time I saw an NHS consultant 11 months later, I found out my FSH was 11 (11 months previously). If I had seen that in writing (GP never told me which hormone and I never thought to ask), well who knows if that time would have made the difference to my IVF outcome.

MrsD and Cos thank you both for your views, and particularly for the reasons behind them. It's very interesting to read, and gives me so much food for thought. I think at the moment I'm leaning more towards yes than no, but we are a long way from a decision.

Rabbit, I think menopur is cheaper as you have to mix it don't you? My drugs came in a ready to use pen. I don't think one is better than another, but (thinking longer term) I've heard of people respond better to one than another. In both directions. So one to keep in mind as a back up plan. Which you won't need .

Joy I am so sad for you, and agree with others that you have had shoddy treatment. Definitely get your questions answered. Make them earn that bloody money. One thing though that you might not want to hear: in Scotland, and I don't know where else, private attempts count against NHS goes. So I would have been entitled to 2 goes on NHS but now I'm not entitled to any. And because of the HFEA documents you have to sign, they know about your private attempts. My consultant said only going abroad keeps it a secret. Sorry to bear bad news - but of course the rule about private cancelling NHS might not apply in your area.

Who asked about the scratch? I had it this cycle. It was pretty bloody sore, but only briefly. And of course having no ET slightly made this futile. I would do it again if I could though.

Rabbit, I had my first scan on day 5 of Stimms, and then every 2 or 3 days after.

Cos I hope you are doing ok. I can't imagine what you are going through. I hope at least you are spared too much physical pain. Thinking of you.

Loads of other stuff I wanted to say. Oh yes, Euro £7k is a lot! My cycles were £4k including drugs.

Right have totally forgotten all the other bits. Hello to Rum Sea Absy Ten Lemon, all the differs and everyone else I've forgotten. :)

Aloha all.

joy fingers crossed you're still eligible for the NHS funding! I'm sure if going private would have affected your eligibility they'd have told you. They made sure to spell that out for me where I am (which is a place with VERY stingy funding ).

euro I'd give my right arm to have my husband take the lead in some of this decision making. I know it's mostly being done to me, but I haven't even got started yet and I have decision fatigue. I'm just going along with whatever they tell me cause I'm apathetic and can't be arsed. (Or cause I have faith in them, to reframe it - PMA all the way!)

Gosh, sea tough call. If it were me I'd go for the NHS cycle cause I'm an impatient bastard and who knows how long again you might have to sit on their waiting list if you decline it now? But then again, I completely see the benefit of getting optimally sorted before having treatment. Hmm. And I was also completely put off DA by the previous deaths - after the last Christmas special I swore off the show. But I'm glad to be watching again, it seems to be on form! If a bit too keen on the Eastenders type bachannal, to paraphrase cos. Last night's ep was upsetting, brace yourself, joy.

Cos I think you're totally allowed to be freaked out. Well done you at even being at work, I'm sure I'd be a total mess. And I hope the grimness is over and done with as quickly and smoothly as possible.

Haha at backchat from Kayla buzz. I'm pretty sure that's what my cat gives me most of the time when she's mewling away at me.

Mediocre and disappointing, bloody hell, dulcet! What a bedside manner! I'd wait to see what an actual fertility doc says, I think it's a pretty specialised area of medicine that not many GPs are particularly hot on. And I say this as someone who is generally sympathetic to GPs. (Though not yours, I must say!)

Good to see you out of the cellar of doom rabbit. And hurrah, IVF-a-go-go for you! My drugs will apparently be free on my NHS round. And I thank those post-menopausal ladies who donate their wee to us infertiles in my prayers every night.

Hmm, I went and looked up the studies on endometrial scratches after MrsD brought it up again, and I think I'm convinced by the data. I might have to add that to my cycle along with embryo glue. And delay starting by another month, provided that blasted cyst has disappeared. Anyway, I'll raise it with my clinic, I think, so thanks! Anything that helps...

Suddenly the are too many people to respond to individually gaaah!! You turn your back on the thread for a day and totally lose track.

cos you have been very much in my thoughts and I am so sorry that you have to face this next bit. I'm pleased to hear that you and MrC are talking things through. You will inevitably have very mixed emotions just now but open communication is more important than ever. Take care of yourself xx

joy try not to panic about funding. Go in and talk it through with the GP. Scottish healthcare is devolved so hopefully nelly's and my experience will be different to yours. I do wonder if your clinic is so used to dealing with older women that their protocols aren't designed to work with women like yourself who are fit and producing quite a few eggs. I so wish that you didn't have to do any of this.

rabbit welcome aboard the AC train! I was in maximum dose of menopur 300iu and it worked for me so I have faith that it will work for you too. It takes a few tries to get used to mixing up the powders but you get the hang of it quickly. I have everything crossed for you that this goes well.

euro glad your consultation went well and that MrEuro seems positive about it. My clinic was very "hospitally" but the nurses were lovely and that was the important thing for me. It did feel rather clinical in the waiting room but individually the care was good.

nelly I have been reading your developments with interest and I do hope that you can find a way that suits everyone. I would be drawn to anonymity but the security of knowing that you are buying into a good gene pool would be hard to pass up. I'm really pleased that you may have found a very positive way forward.

All is fine in the mad household. Big waves to the oodles of people I have missed. I have been reading and thinking of you all xx

Just popping in quickly... I am thinking of you all lots, particularly cos at the mo.

I wanted to wish rabbits lots of good luck. I wasn't on menopur (old lady wee you say?!), but did use cetrotide. Make sure you ice the area after the jab - the few times I didn't, I ended up with a sore itchy lump!

Lots of luffs to all.

rabbit my clinic was going to prescribe me menopur but as I had a fridgeful of Gonal-F left over from my NHS round, they decided to use that instead.

nelly my natural cycles were around 3k each (as I didn't need to buy the expensive drugs). The new clinic is a LOT more expensive. You do get more for your money though - not only the drugs (as we would be doing a stimulated rather than natural cycle) but they do a lot of monitoring the cycle before the one where you have EC with stuff like a mock transfer. So you can see where the money goes even if I'm not sure that all of it is a good investment (as I have had all completely straightforward IUIs and transfers, apart from the one where I was still all swollen from the EC bleed).

Euro can I ask about CRGH what was their take on what medications you should take, did they listen to your concerns about downregging? Ie did you feel they listen to what you thought or were they advising what you should do? Will they go for a limited amount of medications or the usual amount? Do they go in for the whole immune side of things or not? Just wondering about possibilities for the future.

Has anyone ever heard of someone taking progesterone support during natural cycles?

Hi cos.

I didn't really get into the drugs with them - we focussed more on what had happened with past cycles and other testing we could do.

We did discuss the ishooos I had with downregging and being knocked out and they said they can do a short protocol with cetrotide, or a long protocol but without extended downregging (the dr said some clinics want your oestrogen to hit rock bottom, but there is no advantage in that and they can start stimming you a couple of days into your downreg bleed). They also said they can do the light sedation I had for my 3rd egg collection so I am awake for EC and don't have the problems I have had with coming round. So they did listen and seemed willing to work with me rather than just put me on a conveyor belt.

They do do immune stuff, but they warn that it hasn't been tested in double blind trials, etc, but there is some suggestion that it can help. They made clear it was an option but they were not pushing it.

How are you doing?

Thanks that's interesting. I'm torn between thinking in terms of trying the same thing again as it got close, or going somewhere new and getting yet another appointment. I'd be interested in more testing though I think before more treatment. Is there anywhere other than argc I wonder who do the tests you mention plus the full Chicago immune tests?

I'm ok. Have got light bleeding and pains so far similar to normal af. I'm glad it's at least started. Emotionally I don't feel too bad today. I could do with a holiday!

Sorry meant yet another opinion not appointment. Crickey if going to appointments put us off we'd never get anywhere!!

Euro that's interesting that CRGH now do immunes. That wasn't the case 1 year ago. Glad to hear they are open to listening to your concerns.

Cos. I hope the pain and bleeding is bearable. You are v brave and I hope this process is as painless as possible for you. I think Zita West and Dr Gorgy do Chicago immunes.

Rum I'm v intrigued about DA now. I may give it another go.

Dulcet. Your GP sound like a horrid person. I too have had bad experiences with them re fertility testing. He did FSH etc on the wrong day and then told me I was in terrible situation when it was not the case.

Joy how are you today?

Rabbit I think paying for drugs is dependent on where you live? Where I'm you have to pay for drugs even if you do an Nhs cycle. They made that v clear and that was the case when I did IUI too. How are you feeling about the upcoming treatment?

Buzz I'm happy you are still on the thread. It's so nice to have grads still on the thread.

Waves to nelly, mad, Absy and all other 10 plussers

Well, I've just had the Hycosy test. I do NOT want to go through that ever again. Fecking hell it hurt.

apparently though, no issues with my fallopian tubes (blockages etc.), so DH will go and have another sperm analysis, I have to get my progesterone tested again and then we'll see. The doctor suggested that we start thinking of IVF.

Thanks lovely people for the kind welcomes. Sorry I've not been back til now. Not had much to report really as just trundling along waiting to do the day 21s. Do have one question though. I'm using those cheap internet opks this cycle to try and pinpoint whats going on and get the bloods drawn on approx the right day. Should I wait 7 days post strong positive on the opk or should I add another day or two for insurance?

Dulcet sorry to hear about your insensitive GP. I'd be tempted to get the actual values too and another interpretation. As I said on other fred, maybe you had the test a day or two early or late which would give low values too?

Absy, no, no idea why my cycles are erratic, though first 4-5 after coming off microgynon were clockwork then it all went a bit haywire! I think I have been stressing rather a lot in last few months about all the cervical stuff, work and house move too, which won't have helped. I am keen to try and level things out a bit though, so perhaps I need to take a look at my diet and see if that helps? I need to take some vits too I think, but so many available I don't know where to start!

x-posted Absy, sorry to hear it hurt! Hope you are ok now. Hoping they will do mine while I'm out for the cervical op! Glad there were no issues highlighted for you.