TTC 10+ months, Part 11

[buzzybee123]

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

Oh Gin. Massive hand hold. You know it was too early to test? They do blood tests on the earliest possible date they would get a result, so an HPT 4 days early would stand no chance of showing a positive even if you were pg. Hang in there. I know it's tough but try not to spot symptoms either of AF or pregnancy - as far as I can tell the symptoms are the bloody same either way but worrying about them won't make any difference to the outcome. Please throw these words back at me this time next week! I've had lots of abdominal cramping but tbh I can't tell whether it's womble or just my digestion complaining about the effects of the progesterone. The only way I am getting through the wait is to take one day at a time and specifically not let myself speculate about what might happen either way. I'm giving you a very gentle nudge with a foil wrapped chocolate fish. And you're not bringing me down - offloading is what this thread is all about.

I know what you mean about not wanting to do IVF again. I said the same thing while I was coming round from EC, it is a serious undertaking both physically and emotionally, but given that we've got an NHS cycle in the offing i probably will find myself doing it if it comes to that. At least I will know what to expect and know what I can and can't take on work wise.

Critter I'm glad your poetry morning was good and you met some lovely people who made you feel better. Good to know they are out there.

I'm turning into a right thread hog today . I'm sorry. I'm off to do what I'm supposed to be doing today and putting myself on an official MN ban for the rest of the day

Thanks artemis! You are right about symptoms being the same whatever the outcome and I think the progesterone must create symptoms all of its own. If I was having a pregnancy blood test, it'd be tomorrow, but I refuse to pay £50 to have another needle stuck in me, which is why otd is a bit later. Feels a bit like I'm prolonging the agony, but I'd rather get up and pee and then know, rather than spending the whole day waiting for the phone call.

Just viciously swept up some leaves in the garden and feel a bit better!

So I've lost my post twice. First I typed on the iPad without being logged in, then on the laptop and turned back a page without posting first. I'm distracted little Doll is being a lunatic and Ken is missing in action still. So he couldn't make the ET, I knew that but he also failed to give us a drive home to avoid the usual insane traffic, on foot, in the dark. My special ET treat It's a legit bad day for him but I'm a bit mad as I have a feeling that I will not be seeing him til late tonight as there is some evening thing too.

nelly well done, you are well on the way. Good for you. Artemis that is disappointing but the most important part is done and the best are already making themselves at home. gin sorry about the upsetting early test, it's easy done. Please can you ladies help me with what day PT is advised for a test (wee not blood) I ask because a 'heated discussion' broke out in the op room after my ET today on this issue with no clear resolution (FFS)

critter I'm glad you have a cunning plan. I know how important insurance is in the States. Errrr euro I was amazed at the cals on my chocolate, 'twas why I posted it. Hard to believe right? That's because it's bullshit, I was reading the kJ line. I'm a total knob. I will admit here that I have in the past been paid to basically calorie count so I'm more than a little

But Doll, do you have embies on board and how many???? Details needed!!!

Lol at the calories but grrr to Ken and surgery fighting.

Proper reply later x

Afternoon everyone.

That's fantastic news nelly. The others were right that it was way too early to be talking about giving up on this cycle. Will keep my fingers crossed for the next scan

Try to stay calm gin. I really don't think that you can tell from Af signs. Lots of my friends thought they were getting their periods but ended up pregnant instead. Given that I had every pregnancy symptom known to man in the first six months of trying and have never been pregnant goesto show that sometimes you just can't trust what your body's telling you.

mrsden I totally understand just being ready to get started! We realised today that it had been more than a year since our first fertility appointment. These things just drag on for what feels like an eternity.......

critter stories from people who have properly been through this always make me feel better - not random anecdotes of somebody's sister's cousin's best friend..... I'm happy they made you feel better too.

As for me, the clinic appointment was strangely reassuring for once. There wasn't really a lot of news but I asked about my left tube (where there was no hydrosalpinx visible on the scan) and he said even if it is blocked or scarred he will only remove the hydro because it is that that will affect ivf. Made me feel less panicky about waking up with no tubes and ivf as my only way of getting pregnant. He also said that the ivf waiting list is currently about 15 months but because they backdated us to march (when the first consultant said she'd put us on the list but apparently didn't) we could get to the top of the nhs list by May or June. That would give me enough time to recover from surgery and still get my first round in before the dreaded 35th birthday. Would be wonderful to get some nhs rounds and keep our savings for if we need a third or heaven forbid fourth attempt. And if the nhs rounds worked I might just get a new bathroom instead of paying for a baby

Oh and he said he'll put Ian referral for counselling but wanted to reassure me that things are moving and time is still on my side. He seemed a bit surprised that I wanted to go for counselling. Dh says that I come across as quite calm and in control when in the clinic in contrast to tearful and maudlin or hysterical at home

Wow that turned into an essay. Off to get some reports written. Have a lovely evening everyone!!

X-post doll and nelly. Asking about a test must mean that things went well. Does someone need to name one embie or two?

Wow So much to catch up on. Weekends are normally quiet on here.

Nelly ? wo what a scare and then what a relief. I am pretty cross by your nurse?s bedside manners the other day. The doom and gloom is unnecessarily worrying...surely she knows everyone grows at a different rate, a few days can make a huge difference as can different amount of drugs. Obviously you need to know the truth & we don?t expect sugar coating but also she needs to tell you the whole story. Anyway, nelly, one day at a time, things are certainly on the move down there.

Gin ? this is such a fecking stress. It?s absolutely no wonder you are an emotional wreck. And it?s just hell as there is nothing that can be said or done really to ease the waiting. Viciously sweeping up the leaves sounds like a good plan. Perhaps get the rolling pin out and hitting a pillow as well. I don?t blame you just waiting as opposed to paying £50 to find out. oh i just wish i could fastforward this waiting for you. Big hug.

Art ? i?m sorry that they couldn?t freeze your other embies but that does not suggest anything about the embies that are now in you. There is just no way that everyone who gets pregnant naturally or through ivf for that matter, produces these top grade embies. Interestingly when i was talking to this andrologist phd woman, she said that anything that is not perfect in a fertilised egg can actually be corrected by the sperm. Willing the mini arts to be bedding down now.

Doll ? so how many are on board? Def need answers.. also at Dr Rock comment whilst his head was between your legs!

All you ladies are AMAZING. Actually having kids will be a piece of cake after going through all this.

Rabbit ? big big hug. Although it may not be depression per se for all of us, i do believe we all have some deep sadness, grief, fear and tension going on. Also, i agree with others, i think you have to be ready for ivf. You have been through such a trauma with your ops, I don?t think you should even think about ivf for the time being. I don?t think you?ll need it either. I must say, before i started ttc , i always said, i would never do ivf. In my mind it was an absolute no no. I thought it was unnatural and i remember having a conversation with a friend and I said if i was unlucky to be that situation, i would just accept nature?s way. HUH! Talk about karma coming and biting me. i can?t believe how easily i have changed my mind. At least i have been taught a valuable lesson.

Critter ? i am sorry to hear about your job situation. it?s terribly unnerving. I had something similar recently and i found it very stressful. As long as you keep hold of that health insurance. Also, it?s great that your ivf is covered over there. Sorry about feeling blue. It?s not helpful when someone starts worrying that they haven?t conceived after 3 months and you have to comfort them. My friend was chatting to me about that recently and I sort of wanted to say, ?come back to speak to me in a year if it still hasn?t happened?.

Mrsd ? oh my goodness, you are cracking on with ivf next! Exciting times.

Cosmos ? surprise surprise i have that blood type book. I bought it in Jan along with some self test blood tests . It was a fun Saturday. I learnt I?m a rare blood type, AB- and then panicked as Roy is 0+ and thought , ah ha that?s why we can?t make babies because of the rhesus b neg thing going on. I find it fascinating that there may be a link between gluten and infertility in some people. Just by the success of what has happened with Princess ? diet obviously plays a huge role in our fertility. I?m so much better on a protein diet. I?ve always thought i have a build of a cave woman even if my blood type is modern.

Frannie ? wonderful news about the heartbeat. Please do keep us updated. Thrilled for you.

Sar ? i can?t believe the behaviour of your current place of work. What a total nightmare. I?m glad it is sorted and the big boss was nice.

Eek at Samantha Brick article. I identified partly with what she said but i wish it wasn?t her who wrote the article. She will get people?s backs up before people even start reading the article. having said that, i was surprised there were some nice comments in the top rated ones. I really don?t want to become that bitter envious woman who loses friends because i can?t breed. I do desperately try and make an effort with people...ok by ignoring them but i?m nice when i see them.

I had my monthly ?how are things going? chat with my mum today. ?you need to relax. It?s in your mind. You and Roy never go on holiday. So and so had 8 miscarriages. They say if you adopt, you will then get pregnant. I wouldn?t believe anything the doctors tell you about your ovarian reserve. Go and do hypnosis. Please don?t do ivf. Can?t you just freeze your eggs?. HAHAHAHAh oh Mum! Anti-ivf but then suggests i should freeze my eggs. She came out with all the classics this morning. Then my dad randomly told me that getting a puppy is one of the biggest things that makes people happy in this world...not kids. So I?m going to freeze my eggs, get a puppy , then adopt and then i may get pregnant.

Joy it's just such a brilliant line, the old 'it's really common that people adopt and then get pregnant' yep and you know what is even more common, that's the people who couldn't get pregnant, adopt and still can't get pregnant.

Point taken, I'm working on the ET report. Brace yourself ladies, another one to go in the 'you couldn't make it up could you' file.

so....the whole thing was a bit dogged by recent memories of the "challenging environment" and by the fact I had no information on numbers of embies, knew I would get no 'office time' to discuss bare chuff and discussing the possible interpretations of the most recent Lancet article, not the greatest combo and knowing that they like their big numbers. Now, with only four eggs this is likely not relevant, but you have to be prepared, right?

Nurse took me to same crowded room to undress. Great no info and no knickers. Sit and wait. Wonder about my embies. Feel alone. Wait some more. Notice stubble on legs. Wonder about embies. Watch a bit of an Arabic soap. Admire end of summer tan on legs. Feel a bit sick. Wonder about embies. Wonder if anyone knows who I am.

Nurse appears and tells me my doctor is sick and it will be another doctor. Nurse disappears. Wonder how this is going to get worse. Another nurse appears and says it will now be a different doctor, not the one they said before. Get led to Ops Room and climb on the slab. Crap at a loose end today Doctor tells me to lie down I in turn ask for embie info

Doll I am agog waiting to here and Joy I just snorted at your last para .

Just home, more shite shovelling to do then will come back in, make a protein filled green and blacks hot chocolate (really???) and catch up. Unless MrN insists we do wedding stuff.

Bloody hell Doll you don't do things by halves. 2 is awesome but I am speechless at the process .

Huge huge well done on the 2 though

I'm not done...

This was a bit like a overly long smear. Lying flat. There was a screen but the doctor didn't tell me what was happening when. I couldn't see anything. He took a phone call during the procedure. I like to think this was before the embies were on the scene but I can't say for sure. I was not amazed by the science and was taken out to lie unconvinced that they were really in there or if they were they really mine for an hour.

so 'twas a bit rubbish and sad in a way. My own doctor would have helped as we have got to know each other a bit, he would have let me know what was going on and I would have had more confidence. It's all done now though and even at this point I know I could do it again. I know the ropes now, don't I?

Mrs Den - sorry you have had to re-think your freindship group - but all sensible. It's a bit like when you realise that you are drifting from your primary school / high school / uni freinds. All natural.

Cosmos - thank you for the blood group advice. And how interesting about the inflamed cervix. How did he know? Was it inflamed to look at or due to swabs? And what did he think the implication might be? Do you feel like your cervix is sore? Sorry for the cervix obsessed questions. .

Art - glad you have some time away from prodding and poking. Oooo never thought of the fanny cam as being up other chuffs . Bloody hell, they had better make sure that dam thing is well covered up. Is there no end to the weirdness of it all. And you are not a thread hogger - offloading is the name of the game!

Rabbit - Sorry about the tooth ache - it's a bastard!!! I know exactly what you mean about wondering if this is what depression feels like. I keep saying to Chum - "do you think I am depressed, shall I go to the GP" As someone who (prior to TTC shite) didn't struggle with mental health / emotions I'm not sure I am able to identify depression very well. But what I do know is I have ongoing sadness, regular tears and little hope for the future. I know a gp quesionnaire would indicate this is depression but for our situation I somehow allow myself to see it as part of the jounrey. Maybe we don't get the help we should. But then again I get up every morning, manage to put on a good performance at work and have a busy social life and full weekends. So I don't know how that fits in. I think it might be a unique type of depression that we long term TTC's have maybe. I don't know. Somehow I keep muddling though. Regarding the IVF thing, it is 100% fine to announce you are not having this treatment. You have come to this decision based on the very unique set of circumstances that have made up your life and recent medical fertility experiences. You reserve every right to change your mind.....or not. But right now you are NOT having IVF and I am 100% behind you in that decision. I too feel strongly that i won't adopt (can't even explain why) and I am very unlikely to have my fallopain tubes removed.....even if that is the one thing that would help me get a baby. I too reserve the right to change my mind . And maybe thats what other people on the outside of this don't understand (i.e. my Dr's) that although we want a baby really really really bad, we can't simply do anything and everything there is regardless, in the hope it might get us one. We are complex beings and this siutation is not as simple as conception problems + any treatment at all = baby.

Nellie - I bloody knew it. Those follies are peeping out and growing. They can keep growing with lots of chocolate milkshake and shouting and you have so much hope. I am so pleased for you. Big big hugs.

Art - big big hugs and deep breath. You have ticked many many boxes on your IVF journey, so the indicators are good. I agree with Nelly 100% - the womb is better than the petri dish - so the 2 inside have the advantage. And so what if those 2 inside were graded as average. Average is exactly what makes most of the world go around. Average means the most likely, most usual and nothing to indicate a problem. I have everthing crossed for you and still see so much hope.

Critter - aw hun. That is difficult about work and insurance. How soon were you planning IVF? Can you pay to extend your insurance if worst came to the worst? Sorry you felt the blues but I think the poetry coffee morning lady was send to remind you of what can be. This little gem was sent to keep you going. What a lovely lady. Aww -I want to come. I hope you feel a bit better. Will it be a regular thing?

Gin - I am right here handing you a decaff coffee and thick slice of stollen cake (a personal favourite of mine). I am so sorry for the BFN, and of course you won't know for sure unless AF does arrive. There is still hope but I know it isn't helpful to keep dangling and you need to have your curreent feelings validated. Try and distract yourself (laughts at self for dishing out advise can not take). Can you go to the cinema tonight? Can you plan something nice for tomorrow? Keep coming on here and offloading. The last part of the TWW is torture I know. But you are NOT on your own. xx

Madness - wow what a brill outcome from the appointment. I like a sensible approach to surgery. Removing only the hydo is a good compromise and may leave a fairly in tact tube available for future use. I have good feelings for you and the reduced waiting list is great news!!! You have given me hope for my consultation tomorrow.

Joy - oh gosh, oh dear. I'm sorry for the latest parental offerings. Puppies, frozen eggs, hypn, holidays . I don't know what to suggest, they are not ready to listen are they. I'm sorry, it must add to the stress.

doll - o my word. What the hell???!!! But horray for 2 embryos. I am thrilled for you.

Well I am still a misery and teary - yawn, yawn. But tomorrow I have a pre-op appointment followed by a consultant appointment. So will be going to 2 different hospitals. I am going to ask the consultant "what do you expect to find inside based on what we know so far". I was thinking this would help me prepare. Thanks for all the support reagrding big boss and little boss and new job. My colleagues are talking about my leaving do . It has dawned on me that I actually am leaving. I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew. This is a direct result of follwing my own crap advice - "do something to progress or value yourslef which is not TTC realted" Hollow laughs. Don't ever follow my advice ladies. .

sar if think you are depressed or low it can't hurt to speak to your GP about medication/ counselling, if you sad more times than you are happy then its not good, I still functioned as a person,went to work etc but still felt depressed, I'm not sure if the Fluoxetine is making much difference to my moods or not but will continue with it until the new year. I know I haven't cried for weeks or felt low or lost for some time, although I feel alot is to do with the life coaching and how I feel about myself and not my situation, hope all goes well tomorrow

fingers crossed for all you brave IVF ladies :)

Well Barry gets his Testosterone results tomorrow and I'm booked in for my AMH, then only one more blood test hep b anti bodies I think??

doll - kj - that would explain it! I am calorie counting atm to lose my post steroid & IVF pounds, so I am quite conscious of calories. Being paid to calorie count would be cool!

I'm sorry Ken didn't make it to ET. You sound so calm and pragmatic- as usual!

I am at your ET story. Blimey. Two embies is great though! And very encouraging for the slow growers! I am assuming that you had both put back?

Rabbit before I started the IVF cycle in the summer I wished that IVF had never been invented. I really didn't want to do it, but I felt like I had to. Because that is the only treatment our NHS clinic offered us. And it's there, and does have pretty good success rates, so I kind of felt obliged to try. But at no time did I WANT to. I felt pushed into it by circumstances against my will. I am still not exactly thrilled about the idea of mild/natural IVF, but it does deal with some of the concerns I had about IVF (I'm a bit of a hippy and don't like taking drugs, etc). But more importantly I think I feel like after a break, I am more ready for it and it will be on my terms - hippy IVF when I am ready. Not loads of drugs when the NHS decides it can fit me in. But it has taken me a few months past the IVF drugs debacle to get to this point. You need to do what is right for you.

joycep your mother sounds, er, trying. Do you think she had read the "what not to say to someone who is ttc" thread and missed the "not" in the title?

sarlat it will be great when it happens. A change is as good as a rest and all that!

euro that really helps, thank you so much. I feel like I'm on a course plotted by the nhs that I can't veer off, clomid jan - march, ivf in the summer. I have little faith in them tailoring the treatment to me as an individual and actually, little faith in them full stop after having major surgery I didn't actually even need. Natural ivf at my pace feels better and I've not looked into that or really even thought about it much, something to think about. Nhs ivf feels very much one size fits all and I hate that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea of ivf for any other reason that I feel a bit too fragile to be fiddled with. And you are spot on, I just don't want to do it! But then, who ever did. I'm yet to know my amh, which perhaps might make me want to speed up things. Or it might not. Do the nhs offer such things?

doll I'm at your whole experience but yay to your embies that are now in their rightful place. I have been reading your posts with fascination, you are a star.

gin I gently hand you Billy Bass fish. Keep going and see what happens. No period is a good thing. All those hormones must surely wallop symptoms on. Kind hand squeeze and luck and loves.

art sorry no freezer ones. But I second what everyone says here, the womb is where they want to be so I am keeping positive on your behalf.

sar massive loves to you. It's funny isn't it how we have these deep down feelings? It has helped me a lot this month to think well I don't have to do that if I don't want to. Hospitals are pretty good at taking that away from you. And yes, I think sadness over depression. It isn't all the time, I'm still working hard and effectively, I see friends less but can still be happy and have fun times. But some days, I could just weep in the bath. I tend not to but the impulse is there! I ordered the vitamin d spray today, I do think it helps in the absence of sunlight. I really am gasping for some sunshine.

joycep parents get it a bit wrong sometimes don't they? My mum is amazing and my dad too but he so wants this to be over for me and therefore the suggestions are rather ahead of where I am.

nelly I could swipe that nurse of yours! So glad for you and keeping everything crossed.

madness glad the appointment went well, sounds very measured. I will be holding your hand in a few weeks.

Any cures for a huge spot the size of my head?!

Nelly that is such good news, well done on hanging in there.

Gin big hugs, good advice from Art, take it day by day.

Art hugs regarding the other 2, but your 2 front runners are in the best place for them.

Doll I am so chuffed for you on today's events, sounds like great news even in the most bizarrely awful surroundings!

Joy is there part of your helpful parental input that is sheer optimism for you (searches for the positive?).

Waves everyone else.

Hi everyone. Am finally in front of the laptop. Leftover beef stew for tea (protein) and forcing myself to drink water even though I?d prefer wine .

I am finding the IVF talk interesting. I?ve got maybe a different perspective (though not as to whether Rabbit should do it ? that?s completely personal, and the right decision for the person making it is always the right decision!) However I never had any qualms about doing IVF. Obviously when I started this journey I really didn?t think I?d be doing it. I was pretty naïve really, but assumed that because I was healthy, had regular periods etc, then I?d get pregnant the old fashioned way. But as it became apparent IVF was on the cards I was just keen to get going asap. I think this is probably because my sister had done it twice, successfully the second time; and that through her I knew of loads of stories of success. However, I even then assumed it was just a case of maybe needing a few goes, but it will work eventually. The bit that has got to me is the poor response ? that?s not something that has happened to anyone I know, and I?ve found that hard (stating the bleeding obvious, I know). BUT ? I?ve not found the IVF hard so far. It?s just a few needles and appointments and stuff. The key for me though is that I stuck to my guns and didn?t do long protocol. I am double pleased about that as I think even the progesterone pill was too much. If/when I go again, I am going to ask for no intervention other than stimming. It is looking like my body doesn?t like being confused. So anyway just my tuppence worth. And like Sar I reserve the right to change my mind if I get more rollercoaster bad news.

Talking of Sar, I am so sorry you feel so down. I would definitely find someone to talk to ? counsellor or whoever feels right for you. Buzzy has wise words and I?ve had my own version via the hypnotherapy. It might have helped more if I?d listened to the CDs on Friday instead of wailing over the tinternet mind. But on a day to day basis it has definitely helped. I did grin at your comment I bloody knew it. Wish I felt so confident, I?m already feeling wobbly about Wednesday.

Madness I am glad your clinic appointment went well. And well done them for backdating your wait. Am I right in thinking you are also north of the border?

Gin easy on the symptom spotting. Others are right, who can flipping well tell what?s a symptom. I?ve had tons of them over the last 2 years. Just keep finding nice ways to distract yourself, ignore the test and we?ll keep our fingers crossed.

Critter I?m sorry you had low moments over the weekend but the poetry meet sounds lovely, what nice people. Thank you for the cheerleading, it?s strange to think of other people thinking about your ovaries . I hope you can resolve the work/insurance worries, something you don?t need.

Joy I know, I was a bit angry with the nurse, I was so nervous and could have done without it. I have to say I don?t feel Amazing! But I was saying to MrN last week (he needs a new name by the way) that, if this ever works and we become parents, I know FOR SURE we will be better, by a factor of gazillions, due to the horror of infertility. We will be constantly amazed by our miracle, bear the challenges with better grace, and feel like all round lottery winners. We?ve also become much closer than ever before and talk about things properly. We never used to. So, thank you infertility, you have made me a better person. But your work is done. I can get pregnant now. Please.

Cosmos I have no idea of my blood type. I should probably find out.

Goodness Doll that really is a tale and a half. They didn?t check your name??? That was something I?ve always had stressed, about how many name checks etc they do. And eek to the phonecall during the process. But I?m still totally stoked for you that you have 2 good embies. Hooray for age not always scrambling the eggs, eh .

I?ve missed loads out but kept getting distracted with wedding stuff. Honestly I am looking forward to it but it?s boring me in equal measure.

Must go to bed. Womble is still there but I want it to start hurting!! I told MrN earlier I couldn?t wait to get home and stick needles in me. I?m not sure that?s entirely normal .

Oh doll what an ordeal. I am amazed by your composure. I cried during my last ultrasound and MRI and horrible colon cam so would have been a ruddy mess with all of that. But hooray!!!! For 2 good embies

sar i'm sure your appointment will go just as well as mine xx

I will need the handholding I'm sure rabbit when the surgery is looming. As for ivf my friend chose to go straight to adoption after clomid. Everyone will need to weigh it all up for themselves. And even those of us who are on the lists or going through it now might still get to be that woman who gets a natural bfp right after a failed cycle or just before starting. Not doing it through ivf does not equal not getting a child.

Nelly I am indeed north of the border. Was sitting in clinic today thinking that any of the other ladies could have been one of you lot

Had funny chat with dh as well about the signs on all of the windows asking people not to smoke in front of them. I'm sure it's mostly about the smoke coming in the windows but we also agreed that it must also be partly to stop all of us fertility challenged hormonal women from doing unspeakable things to the pregnant women who are always standing around outside the main entrance having a fag

Well I'm having an odd evening. My period seems to have arrived. Giving me a 9 day luteal phase. I have not had an LP shorter than 11 days in the year and a half that I have been temping, and they are usually more like 14 days.

I had low level nausea and felt absolutely exhausted last week. So I am thinking that maybe something but not quite enough happened. Hmmm. V strange.

And not idea for the scuba refresher course I have planned for this week...

Euro -proper period???? Or just a hint of it starting? Curious indeed. . Did you shout at your ovaries then .

Madness they have those signs at my NHS clinic and they made me chuckle too.

Right. Sleep.

Euro - goodness me. I will watch this space. Any possibility it is implantation bleeding?

Buzz - thank you for the advice - you are as knowledgable as ever. I am going to wait and see if this settles - I hope it's a case of being stuck in the tent. But I will keep an eye on how it goes. I am so glad to hear the clouds have lifted fo you. I'm sure the life coaching is the main reason too as it sounds fantastic.

euro well interesting. Any thoughts? Any update?

Yes euro both back in. It wasn't a question in the doctor's mind which was what I expected and why in a way it was better that I didn't have more and so didn't have to get into that. I'm ok with two, it doesn't seem to raise the pregnancy rate as much as one would expect and, of course, putting aside identicals, it raises the possiblity of twins a lot (i.e from 0% chance).

It's definitely proper period, unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure that something happened though - nausea, exhaustion, feeling like I was getting thrush (I have never had it off the Pill), some brown tinged CM a couple of days past ov (never had this before), temps all over the place rather than just going up and staying up, and now my period way early - it's too many things for it to be coincidence. And the nausea and exhaustion have gone today. So near and yet so far.

I'll have my fingers crossed for doll and the other 10+ers whether IVFing or not.