Fantastic 40+ Thread - Part Eight.

[goldengirl71]

"Come on ovaries! Let's get this party started, yeah?"

Lotsofcheese...I love you You are always so wise.

Tina, deffo go for the scan if you can afford it, although I have a really positive vibe about your twins - safe as houses in there

Tina, I think a private scan is a good idea. If it will help ease your anxiety,it is worth it,isn't it?

Jbrd, anything to report?

Golden,I know having the facts is important to you,but frankly I find all this straight talk from your consultant just bursts my happy little bubble where I keep believing it is a possibility that I might still get pregnant and have a THB. Yes, the miscarriage stats are awful, and I must be one of those women he was talking about (who keep trying after 2 or 3 miscarriages), and you don't have to repeat his stats about women over 43 - just saying what you said is enough to make it sound like over 43 we have no chance.

I guess I just don't need to hear it. It is a bloody struggle anyway, and I am not going to be sensible about the "stats". I just want to be blissfully ignorant and believe that I can and will have a baby.And in my own time,I will give up the quest when it suits me.

Good luck with your timing this month.I hope clomid does the trick.

I think I may have to stay away from this thread for a bit. I don't want to be reminded that I don't have a chance at having a baby.It just makes me feel sad.

Gum, you mustn't leave the thread for this is the place to dream. A GP surgery, however, is the place for some straight talking, and I feel your doctor - who is not a fertility expert - is being very unfair in raising your hopes for another baby. I think she is irresponsible to bolster your dreams when you have suffered three miscarriages in the past two years. I wonder when she will offer to help you address giving up ttc. Next year? When you are 48? 49? 50?

I know I must come across as a damp squib with my quoting of statistics and words of caution, however, I feel strongly that it is grossly unfair to newbies to paint a rosy picture of ttc in our forties. Most people who come to this thread leave disappointed. Everyone is miscarrying. Nobody is enjoying the experience. It is fraught with anguish, despite the giggles we still have on here. I refuse to draw a veil over what is actually turning out to be a years-long journey of disappointment for some women who should be enjoying their mid-forties with their already-established families. I particularly feel cross at any GP who would not help a woman recognise what her body is trying to tell her at 46 after suffering three miscarriages in the past two years.

Stats are dangerous. Mia should not have survived her vasa previa birth, but she did. She also should not have died from an extremely rare bacterial growth on her heart, but she did.

Dreams and hope are important to have in life. This thread is meant to support and encourage those faced with statistics and hard reality on a daily basis.

Everyone should be entitled to hold their own opinions here, and be gentle with one another. Life is hard enough. Please hold the dreams of others carefully.

MiasMum, I am not trying to destroy people's dreams and I will not be accused of doing so. I don't think it is kind to ignore the loss of life we are seeing on this thread. Repeat miscarriages are heartbreaking and I do not want Gum to suffer any further losses. I am entitled to my opinions, too, and I am entitled to say that for Gum's GP to say 'she is confident she can get pregnant again as she has been pregnant three times in the last two years' is to ignore the elephant in the room. Babies are being miscarried. Gum's husband doesn't want another baby. What does the GP think about that? It is hard to be gentle when there is so much heartache on here but I am the first to console somebody when AF arrives or to cheer people on when they get a BFP. I simply do not feel that a GP surgery is the place to ignore what has become an obsession for someone who has suffered recurrent losses. I am aware that Mia's situation was complex and hence the tribunal. However, the statistics are proved right in almost every circumstance when you look at the history of this thread. Two women over the age of 44 have given birth to healthy babies. Nearly every one of us has miscarried either on arriving here or during our stay. I don't see how pointing out the evidence of the thread is trampling on people's dreams. Our stories are here in black and white.

This is not a personal attack on Gum or anybody else. I would love to see more dreams being realised, but at the same time let's not be afraid to challenge the notion that it's perfectly normal and healthy to obsess about having a baby into our late forties and fifties. That doesn't help anyone.

The GP knows that gums DH is aware that gum wants a baby,but he also knows the chances are slim. He could do something about contraception, but he chooses not to. Why should my GP address my giving up ttc ? It isn't affecting the quality of my life, why should anyone else get to tell me when enough is enough?

My GP has looked at my individual case rather than putting into category. I appreciate that she does that. She and I both know what I am up against, but we both remain positive.

As for being " obsessed" with having a baby, I disagree. I have a full and happy life. I would love a baby too, but it isn't going to be the end of me if it doesn't happen. If I am prepared to go for it in the hope that I might not miscarry again, what is the harm in that? Why does it make any difference to anyone else if I have 2,3 or 5 miscarriages?

I thought this thread was a safe haven where I could go to for support. Being told ( in a roundabout kind of way) that I am deluded and obsessive isn't supportive.

I've only skim read back a page or 2, but as I sit here feeding my gorgeous DS2, 9 weeks today, I will only say that I'm glad I didn't throw in the towel after 5MCs. And that I believe taking 75mg of DHEA did make a difference. But of course I don't know.

Everyone has to make their own peace with TTC in their 40s. It's not for the fainthearted, nor is it for the obsessives or emotionally vulnerable.

The lovely LunaticFringe once described it as doing the lottery, but with much better odds. But only you can decide if you're going to buy a ticket. Don't let strangers on the internet tell you what to do.

Waves to all, special squish for Gum.

x

Ladies...I'm just popping in quickly to say my farewells. I used to enjoy the encouragement and support I felt when I came to visit this thread....it seems in short supply just now.
Whilst I'm all for forms of debate and constructive conversation and it's great to hear ranging opinions, I do feel that all the ladies on here have the intelligence to know the facts. Whilst we/they may decide for some of the time to dream of conceiving a beautiful healthy baby I think nobody would be deluded enough to think that those chances are high. So, for those of you that have suffered the loss of mc but are still actively ttc then good for you. You know what its like, you know that sense of loss, but are prepared to risk that. Who knows ...next time could be the sticky one......I do hope so .
Sometimes...just sometimes....too many facts and figures, too much discussion, charting, temping, bodywatching can I think be unhealthy for the mind and body.
Be happy, be relaxed, have lots of sex...loving sex not just babymaking sex.
Keep taking those supplements....who knows (and I guess they can do no harm), and most of all keep hope.
If any of you would like to stay in touch I would love it...just drop me an inbox message with your email address.
Much love to all xxx

I, too, am leaving the thread. If all we can do on here is dream and there is no place for frank discussion then it is, indeed, not the place for me. I don't wish to be on a thread where I am enraging people simply for talking about the taboo subject of giving up ttc. I certainly don't want to be here, four years down the line, with no-one prepared to speak frankly to me. It is becoming fashionable to try to have babies into our late forties (and even fifties) and there are all sorts of reasons why that is a bad idea. I can see why this isn't the thread to express those opinions.

Calibee, you talk of women on here having 'the intelligence to know the facts'. I would say our yearning (not sure why 'obsession' is also a taboo word on here when quite clearly it exists: crying over pregnant women in supermarkets; depression when AF arrives; scrutinising charts; scouring the internet) fudges all reason at times on here. How many times do we move the goal posts for that holiday/job hoping that a baby will come along? Nobody is talking in terms of making a more contented life for ourselves that doesn't involve ttc at 46 after recurrent miscarriage. You say you 'don't think anyone would be deluded enough to think those chances are high'. I would say that those hopes are massively high - why else the devastating crush when AF arrives? Why is it wrong to suggest enough is enough? It seems to me it doesn't matter how many babies are lost in this quest to have that final baby. And no-one is allowed to talk about that.

I wish you all the very best of luck. I wish you all, more than anything else, peace.

golden I think the point is that you have confessed to a lot of things yourself that indicate confusion, obsession, questionable judgement. We could really go to town on all your inconstistencies cause they are glaring (not that you're not v likeable!). But we are nothing but supportive of you as we are of everyone here - mothers come in all shapes, sizes, ages and stages of development. We have cheered you on through very deep lows as we believe in you.

It's a failure on your part to project yourself into other people's shoes to start listing stats for women who are older than you.

I must admit I was tossing and turning a little last night at your frank outburst and wondering how older ladies would feel upon reading it. It's just not what this thread is about.

xxx

I am a lurker on this thread as I am hoping to try and have a second baby at 44, having given birth to my first child at 42, two months before my 43rd birthday. At the same time, a close friend who is a year older than me gave birth to her first baby. Both of us conceived quite easily and I feel that while we were lucky of course, being too focused on the statistics is not helpful.

More women are trying to have babies in their 40s than ever before. Whether you agree with someone's desire to become a mother at a certain age or not, surely this thread is about providing sympathy and support on the journey? My obstetrician told me his oldest recent patient was 48 at the time I was pregnant and I also know a woman who had her first child at 50 last year. Pregnancy as an older mother is stressful but I've learned from MN just how stressed we all are by getting pregnant and pregnancy itself at any age. The challenges may seem great but if it works out, once the little one is born they bring so much joy that anything else is soon forgotten.

Places like this thread are rare - somewhere where you can let off steam and share in the mutual support from a community of others going through the same things. Not everyone may get a 'take home' baby at the end but that doesnt mean they are wrong to give it a very good try for as long as they are prepared to do so. These are personal decisions and as such deserve to be respected. Wish each other luck and show each other kindness - you all deserve it!

Oh, ladies, how sad to see all of you getting disillusioned and leaving! Please consider staying, this used to be a lovely thread (don't make me go and find another one, I'm a creature of habit), full of support and encouragement - isn't this why we all came here in the first place?
I can see everyone's point, though, and I mean everyone's. We all want to dream and hope and think about the 'what ifs', and at the same time we are facing all the hard and disappointing stats and facts and scientific data. It is so difficult to find the middle ground to balance it all out, without losing the plot. At least that's what I find most days! It's like gum and many others in the past have said - we all have good lives to live outside the ttc aspect, and we need to remember that.

How about taking a step back and a deep breath, and maybe a break from MN for a while - I do hope to see some of you back here, I'll hang on for a bit longer - but if not, all my heartfelt best wishes to you, may you have happy and fulfilled lives, however they may turn out!

I did test yesterday - BFN. The GP was lovely, but not too helpful - well, that's not entirely true, he did sort out my uti. But didn't have time to deal with my 'real' problem, unfortunately.
Basically, I need to make another appointment to get myself on the system and start the blood test shenanigans.I already have the appointment, but it's in December... So I need to be patient, just what I am not!
He was lovely and kind, though, and did recommend a book 'Taking charge of your fertility' - according to him, just recommending this book has gotten many of his patients pregnant!
So I ordered the book, and then I spent last night down at the bottom of the hole, licking my wounds . Trying to come to terms with the fact that the 2-year-gap that I had planned for my DCs is not going to happen (I'm a control freak, so this is difficult for me to accept). And wondering what the hell is going on with my current cycle - AF is still not here, and even if this is a 'normal' cycle, i.e. 28-29 days (which is what I used to have), then I'm late.
Really hope this isn't the start of my cycles going off the rails...

Going to make a conscious effort to lighten my mood and go out with 2 (non-pregnant, over 40) girlfriends for dinner tonight - I think I am in much need of some kind and reassuring words and support (which strangely enough the GP made me realise). Sadly, I don't think that DH quite understands how much of a rollercoaster I am currently on. Don't get me wrong, he's lovely and supportive and has agreed to getting tested, but I have not let him yet know that every time af arrives, I just want to howl and wail... And I'm not sure if I should let him know, blissful ignorance and all. At the same time I feel really alone - which is why I come here! How much are your DHs/DPs involved? Should I give him my password to FertilityFriend and get him to read the book, and tell him to wisen up? Or will this be the ultimate killjoy?

I'm reading the last few posts with so much sadness - please gum, golden calibee don't go - this thread has been so fantastic and I love the fact that everyone is so honest and able to talk about things they might not be able to do at home/work etc

it's been such a source of comfort and advice not just for me but for everyone else who's dropped in over the last couple of years I've been watching it. Please reconsider :-(

in the meantime if you decide not to return please keep in touch? I'd be happy to give any of you my email address and of course all the very best to you all and I really hope you achieve your dreams xxx

I'm still lurking...shamefacedly.
I may continue to lurk for a while.....I consider you all friends...everyone of you, we are all in the same boat afterall.
Yesterday I wrote a quick note on here explaining about work and my absence for a few days due to DP being home for his first weekends leave and also that I was nearly finishing my first clomid cycle. I think it got completely overlooked due to the heated debate of statistics and opinions.
I thought we were here to support each other and whilst I absolutely stand by golden for having her very own view...to continue voicing that opinion time and time again was wearing a little thin.
golden if you read this....you are a lovely, caring, compassionate lady with strong views and a particularly articulate way of putting them into words. (grins). I too am fiery and can often appear to be outspoken for something which I consider to be a just and worthwhile cause....hopefully all can be dusted under the carpet and we can all get back to doing just what we are here for. Supporting each other in the quest for the ultimate goal.
Much love x

I cannot express how angry I am at myself. I don't know how to apologise for this much upset. It has become clear to me that I am deflecting every ounce of my fears, doubts and anxieties onto this thread. I am literally sometimes paralysed by the fear of miscarriage or remaining childless and I can't keep taking it out on other people's dreams. Please forgive me, Gum, and know that I am just in a really bad place and you are in a good one. I won't be coming back to the thread because it isn't good for me personally. I tend to live vicariously, at times of stress, through other people's experiences and it is a heavy burden and leads to all sorts of frustration on my part. I clearly need a break. I feel so fucking rotten for being such a thoughtless twat. Good luck, everyone x

Briefly de-lurking, I would just like to wish everyone all the very best. You do each other proud in terms of support, hand-holding and information.

It is difficult when we all have different ways of addressing things - ignorance is bliss V knowledge is power and online it is easy to unintentionally hurt someone's feelings. But then again by addressing emotionally difficult subjects, you can help some other people enormously; I like to hope (I am still trying for DC2 and am 41) but it is useful, if hard, to have people's thoughts on when its right for them to stop ttc. And Golden, I wish you lived near me, you sound ace!

I'm still around (can't keep me away),lurking,and can't ignore all the support. Thankyou

I am sorry if what I have said brought this all to a head, I didn't want to make trouble. Unfortunately I have been at the receiving end of golden's honesty far too often. When she was missbone and again when she was cuckoogirl.The second time she apologised and returned as golden. Of course I accept apologies, but I am tired of the recurring nature of her blatant homesty, often directed at me.

running, I agree that it may be useful to have others opinions on all sorts of things, however I didn't ask for anyone's opinion on giving up ttc.

This is a thread for women 40+ ttc. My feeling is that I respect other's choices, so that if someone on this thread is 48, has had 8 miscarriages and is till ttc, then I cheer them on no matter how I personally feel about their chances.

I do recall, when I embarked on this journey at the age of 41 (and luckily I fell pregnant after 7 months of trying and had a healthy baby) reading about women who were 45 and I did think "I bet her chances are slim, poor thing, she probably won't get pregnant", but I never voiced it,and now, I realise I was the one who was ignorant. Yes, it can be a long slow battle to have a baby at this age,but it can and does happen.

Jolls, your story helps keep me buoyant. I am taking the DHEA and have also added CO q 10 as I've heard that's part of the supplement protocol given to patients with the DHEA in the U.S.

Calibee, I am so sorry you were overlooked whilst I was liking my wounds. I'm am glad you had a lovely weekend with your DP. How hard it must be to wave him off again. Are you having a scan whilst taking the clomid?

Jbrd, so sorry about the BFN. I like the idea of going out and enjoying yourself.

My AF appeared late yesterday so I had a lovely glass of wine and danced around the living room with my beautiful children while DH cooked dinner. I hope my CBFM arrives today so I can start another cycle with renewed vigour!

"tread lightly for you tread on my dreams". I dream of another baby. I will pursue that dream. I will follow you as you share the dream. Hopefully, the dream will become a reality and we will all be woken up by our newborns' cries in the night

Yay...gum so pleased to hear you're ok. Chin up. We all have chances...some better than others. My chances may be slimmer than yours even though I am younger...there is just no definitive way of actually knowing without that BFP and ultimately the birth of a baby. The facts, figures, statistics and test results are mere suppositions in the grand scheme of individual ageing. So lets get back to supporting each other.
I have a scan booked for Monday afternoon....how excellent would it be that I have a budding follicle...or more, waiting to pop for shall we say...a week Sunday or Monday. Dp has murmured about the possibility of another leave that weekend. I have missed that man so very very much....I'm quite shocked at myself to be honest. I was single for four years before I met him and had started to get to the point where I honestly doubted if I would ever be able to share my space or my precious bed with anybody ever again. He has dispelled that doubt good and proper....would give anything to have him home just now. However...he has to do this, for himself.
He bought me a new mobile phone out of his first wage packet...bless.
Forward thinking with this af Gum....a fresh start :)
Hello to everyone else and a special hi to those who broke their silence and came out to say their bit xxx

Hello! De-lurking here too. Lovely to see you back Gum - I too was feeling increasingly uncomortable being on this thread, esp as you seemed to be targetted if that's not too strong a word a little too often with absolutely no grounds...
Golden, if you are lurking then I do wish you well. Sadly I too remember the cuckoo/missbone posts, and the apologies made then...and then the same things said again...and again...so while I wish you no malice I do feel that you are probably wise to take a break, for your own mental health if not for ours.
Calibee how exiciting that dp may be back this weekend too. You'll be getting more action than the rest of us at this rate . I'm sure you've said, but when does dp get back for good?
Well I've had two positive-ish opks in a row (last one today), but a temp rise yesterday. So I'm assuming I've ovulated somewhere between the first and second opk? .
Love to all xxx

Echo I love that poem, Yeats isn't it?
Being another of "those" over 43 women having had three miscarriages in a row I found the comments yesterday hurtful again, I was going to post but decided not to straight away and in the meantime ,gum you expressed exactly how I feel too!
I know the chances of me conceiving and carrying a baby to term are low, but I have hope that they are not impossible and I need that hope in my life. In the meantime I'm getting on with my life and enjoying my family. I feel I would regret not trying, if it doesn't work out then I hope with time will come acceptance. I still feel desperately sad about my losses and I know another baby may not fully fill that emptiness inside me and I can't replace the babies that are gone ,but it helps me to look forward and we know there's room in our lives and our family for another little one, we have a lot of love to give.
Greenlizard welcome, if you're still here!
Geminita you asked about normal cycles resuming after miscarriage. Everyone is different .My cycle is usually about 28days. When I miscarried in March at 11 wks my AF arrived 35 days after proper bleeding started. I had then started to chart temperatures so I know I ovulated on d 14 of the next cycle,I conceived but miscarried at 6 weeks in June. This was more like a very heavy period and bleeding finished within a week, I ovulated and conceived again 14 days from the start. I miscarried at 12 weeks(though baby died at 8w6d, I found out at 10 weeks but waited to miscarry naturally). I ovulated on d23 after this and had a luteal phase of 12 days so another 35d cycle. After that AF I ovulated on d 14,had a luteal phase of 14 d, so back to a normal 28 d cycle. This month I ovulated again on d 14 and am now in the 2ww again.
Calibee glad things are settling down at work and you had a weekend with your DP, hope the Clomid is working out ok for you.
Tina have you booked a scan? It's worth it for peace of mind.
JBrd hope you had a good night out with your friends and managed to relax. I wouldn't worry about a 2 yr gap, there's a 10 yr gap between my DS and DD2 and they have a great relationship. If I manage to conceive again there will be a 20 yr gap between oldest and youngest!!!!!

Hi Diege posts crossed,(I'm a slow typer!)
Timing of dtd must have been good if you ovulated yesterday, hope your bits have recovered,you can have a rest now!!
CaliBee wouldn't that be great if your OH geets home again next weekend, fingers crossed!

Hello Irish. I am sorry I did not post some support to/for you a few weeks ago, when gg wrote about you and ttc. It took gum's courage for me to re- engage with this thread. Mothers are naturally unselfish, and when a woman decides to try to become a mother, she knows that she will be sacrificing something somewhere some aspect of her former self. I have read many posts by you to women who are suffering mc and you are selfless and really must be a wonderful mother

Hi Echo thank you for your lovely comments, I'm truely touched. I don't know if I'm a wonderful mother but I know it's the most important thing in my life and I do my best!
x

Morning ladies....Irish Tina JBRD echo miasmum hopeful hippy cheese and all you lovely lurkers ....so pleased to see some normality back

diege Back for good??Thats the million dollar question. After basic training which will probably be next May/June time, DP will be posted to his regiment which could be Edinburgh, Northern Ireland, a couple of places down London way, Chepstow....or even Germany. He gets some choice in that but it depends where they have vacancies. There is then the probability that he will be off to Afghan for 6 months....hmmmm. So in a nutshell...whilst he is in the army he wont ever really be back for good . We have broached the subject of me going with him...but as we are not married we cant get an army house. I also want to see my son through his education. He is 15 and in his last year at school....he would go to his Dads otherwise. Its all a case of "wait and see" just now but I'm errring on the side of staying put and keeping the homefires burning lol. The plan is to do about 4-5 years in forces get some decent training (plus his entitlement to remain in UK) then come out and hopefully find work.
Fingers crossed for a good strong ovulation for you.