Fantastic 40+ Thread - Part Eight.

[goldengirl71]

"Come on ovaries! Let's get this party started, yeah?"

Hi Bronte and a big welcome to you.
I have to say I know exactly what you mean about how you cant let yourself be allowed to get too caught up in all the paraphenalia available whilst ttc. I started off exactly the same as you but have to confess that 7 months down the line I am now queen of temperatures and opks....hmmmm. Have to confess though that whilst OH has been away these past days it has been a welcome break from it all. I've not peed on a single stick lol. Temping seems to have become a habit however.
So ladies...still awaiting bloody af (excuse the pun). It will be 7 days tomorrow since taking the last Provera....gah. So much for that then. Not impressed, and my boobs feel like they would have somebodies eye out!!!! I really just want to get on with clomid now. It looks like it will be a definate nogo for OH's next homevisit but at least I can see if the dose is ok and if it actually works atall for me, and then get on with planning his Xmas leave.

Thanks calibee. I have to admit that I did the Provera & Clomid thing many years ago before I had my daughter. It didn't work for me. I went on to have my daughter with no help. So all of you dealing with fertility treatments, I can relate. Having done it is probably what makes me wary of getting that caught up again.

I'm now iud free for the first time in years. It's a bit scary but I'm excited!

Good to hear from you bronte.

I have to say I'm a fan of all the ttc technology.

DH and I are way to old and have been married way too long to rely on spontaneous shagging. We gave up after two months of casual ttc with dc1. Bought Toni Weschler's book and we were away. I was only 39 then though, and I hadn't discovered mumsnet or fertility friend.

This time I'm better informed but with a lot less luck. Not sure how long I'd be able to hang on with diminishing hope. If I was ttc dc1 at this age and failing I think I'd start looking into adoption sooner rather than later. That wouldn't need to stop the TTC but would would at least help to put it in the background. As I understand it your youngest child has to be 6 before you can adopt, but there's obviously nothing to stop you having a baby after adopting.

Evening all. Just dropping in to say hi. Haven't read the latest. Sorry. Promise to do better soon! Occurred to me that, maybe we should set up a thread to accompany this one where we can post our favourite TTC tips. For that and nothing else. Could be really good. What do you think?

Chatting with another lady changing her baby. The usual stuff. She asked me after a while if DS was my first. Her jaw hit the floor when I said yes.... I was too busy to bother to follow up with her, but nothing like that for an ego boost! Not. Remind me not to take my zimmer frame out with me along with DS again!

I do like your idea Fireflies, about a thread with all the beat ttc tips.

Just ignore the lady with the dropped jaw (how rude). Doesn't she know how common it is for 40 somethings to have babies? And that 40 is the new 30 etc

Littlepink - sorry to hear you are leaving us. Come back anytime.

Golden how are you feeling? I am guessing that AF (the ugly old bitch) came?Are you trying the clomid again?

I've been on an American ttc thread, and it seems the doctors in the US prescribe to many,many ladies in their 40's. I'm seeing my doctor today and will talk to her about it then.She's no fertility specialist (didn't even know how to prescribe progesterone) but I'll give it a go. She did want to refer me to a fertility specialist, but I didn't go - my DH didn't want any part in it, and the specialist ran a fertility clinic (read IVF). There's no way I'd go see him now as I would be told that I'd have to have donor eggs (which isn't going to happen), and I don't want to make the long trip to the city and pay a shitload of dollars to be told that.

Welcome Bronte, this is a very supportive place to be when ttc. I've been here for years (literally) and seen many women get pregnant and have a baby. I hope your stay isn't too long.

Welcome from me, too, Bronte41

I'm also quite a fan of all the ttc technology/methods - I think because it gives me a sense of control over something that is by nature so very haphazard... I'm a confessed control freak, and I find that using OPKs, temping and charting reassures me that I am in charge... Or at least trying to be. The downside is that I spend far to much time looking and agonising over charts!

Like just this very morning - I am meant to be ovulating any day, and my OPK was positive the day before yesterday, and my temp had started to rise nicely, as it should - just to take a massive dip this morning! So now I am fretting over the flipping chart, trying to make sense of it all - what do I believe, the OPK, the temperature? Have I missed it? Or will it still happen?
Making things worse, we didn't dtd last night, DH fell asleep too quickly, and I was sooo tired as well. Argh!

And another friend has just announced that she's pg again. Not fair! I was one of the first to start ttc again in my circle, but they are all so young and super-fertile

Like you Jbrd, charting,opk's etc help me feel like there is a modicom of control going on in the ttc caper. In fact I just peed on an opk stick and it is positive. So I am glad we shagged last night but can't decide if I should hassle him for more sex tonight or save it for tomorrow? I think three nights in a row would be a bit much. Who knows, if I offer a HJ, I bet he'd respond.

I'm bloody peeved about my doctor. It is so hard to get an appointment with her, I usually have to book 3 or 4 weeks in advance. I haven't been able to see her due to her holidays, mine,her being called away etc etc, so today I thought I'd finally get the bloody pap smear over with and finally get to speak to her about progesterone,clomid etc. But she was called away to the hospital and I didn't get to see her and I bet she was delivering a babyGod,I wish it was me having a baby that had her called away for. Blah!

However, the sun is shining, tomorrow is a pupil free day at work (I am a teacher), and we are going out for lunch and for a drink after work.So that's nice. My mum sent me a card (she no longer phones me, fuck knows why, she's just stubborn that way)with $50 in it. I might just spend it on a fertility monitorThough I don't think I really need it. Perhaps I'll spend the 50 on lindt chocolate (stock up before PMS time).

How is everyone else?

I hope all is well. I think I might go and watch Miranda on ABC iview on my ipad. I'm feeling lazy...

Gum xxx

Oh, Jbrd, meant to say, if you've had a drop in temps, it doesn't mean you haven't ovulated, especially as you had a positive opk. Usually Fertility Friend wants three temps above cover line to say you've ovulated.Is the dropped temp still above cover line?Perhaps you could do another opk to get a clue of what might be going on. Otherwise,just keep temping and shagging every second day if possible, I know, it would kill me if I had to do it every second day for weeksEventually the temps will start to make sense.

Thanks for the welcomes.

I absolutely know where you're all coming from in terms of the use of technology. I think it should all be used. It's just for us, at this stage, it's not something I want to do. I may change my mind six months into this!

After I had my daughter, I found out I have a blood clotting disorder called factor v Leiden. I obviously had it when pg with her but I was unaware. My GP told me yesterday that I may need to be on fragmin throughout any pregnancy. That scared me until I read up on it last night. So as well as being told 41 is old and that issue, I'm not sure I could handle anymore facets to ttc. But we'll see how it goes.

Bronte, hello and welcome to the thread I have just started my second round of Clomid (more of that later) and have thrown away my basal body temperature (actually, it is in a gorgeous box containing even more gorgeous hand-knitted baby booties which some granny from church made me when I was pregnant - I had a mmc at 11 weeks). Anyhoo..like you, I am simply not prepared to agonise over these bastard charts any more. They are torturous and, more worryingly, do not tell the truth about ovulation. All nine of my charts have showed that I have ovulated and yet I scored 18.5 for my pre-Clomid day 21 progesterone result. This clearly showed I had not ovulated and my charts were deluding me. Shocking.

Not only this but I believe charting and temping and OPKing and all the other mind-consuming rituals we indulge in on this journey actually can often detract from the fact that we are simpply not having enough sex - and not at the right time. If you get a positive OPK and do not have sex that night or the next you are simply not going to get pregnant. Especially as The Sperm Meets Egg plan says that, without fertile cervical mucus (egg white) - which we over-40s tend not to have - sperm will only live for two hours. An egg has a 12 hour lifespan and we can all do maths. I simply don't believe (at our age and without tons of EWCM) that sex once three days before ovulation is going to do the job. Unfortunately, at our age, we simply are not shagging like feral beasts for a variety of reasons. My DP has problems ejaculating and is on Viagra for the 'pressure' times aound ovulation. I feel very resentful (when AF arrives) that I wasn't filled with his sperm twice a day for the 48 hours leading up to, then including, ovulation.

So, we can play around scritinising charts all I like..but it is not getting me pregnant and after nine months I have learned everything there is to know about how my cycles look each and every month. Sex is the key - and plenty of it. I am fortunate that, now I am on Clomid, I get scanned on CD14 when the nurse injects me with HCG and she tells me when to have sex (not that same night - is quite telling. She advises the night after the injection - which, of course, is when the egg will be being released) The point is, she sees no point in having sex any earlier. Interesting.

Sorry for this long post but reading The Sperm Meets Egg Plan again is refreshing. We get so consumed with the rituals surrounding ttc that sometimes it's easy to forget we're not actually having enough sex - at the right time.

AF arrived yesterday - a whole day later than expected. I knew Clomid could extend the luteal phase (thanks, but my very healthy 13 day phase did not need extending!) but was still holding out for that BFP. I am so brave, though - I refused to test after that negative at 11DPO As you know, I despise 'symptom spotters' who convince themselves they are preggo with their 'tender breasts' (ill-fitting bra), their 'cramps' (trapped wind - do go for a shit, love) and their 'bloating' (again, go and squeeze one out for heaven's sake!). BUT...I became 'one of them'! In the final week of the 2ww I was woken three times with nausea and couldn't lie on my front for the painful nipples! Moreover, I never got the usual premenstraul symptoms of skin break-out, 2-3lbs weight gain and voracious appetite. Naughty Clomid.

So, here I am..just started my second lot of Clomid, not temping or charting or OPKing; I will let Linda the nurse direct our SWI and leave it at that. I have warned DP, however, that I want his sperm TWICE on the day of ovulation. He looked like this and then and so I went and he goes

Remnant, we cannot adopt due to our criminal records and the fact that I was sacked for hitting a child. DP has also been in prison. We cannot afford IVF, hence the often-panicked/irritable tone of my posts. The other ladies on the Clomid thread have 'Plan B' if this drug does not work for them; they are relatively young and will go on to try IVF and some are even talking about adoption at this stage. DP and I have nothing further to hope for if Clomid doesn't work for us. I am 'only' just turned 41, though.

Gum, I'm chuffed to bits you're considering Clomid and not because I am on it (I get plenty of support on the Clomid thread). I simply don't feel that, at 46 (when was your birthday, by-the-way? Did we miss it? ), this drug will 'fuck up' your fertility. I am trying not to be cavalier. I know you are an intelligent and erudite woman so I don't hink I am being flippant when I say 'go for it'. I hope you pin your GP down pretty soon.

I've a feeling my last post is going to evoke some sqwawks of derision from those who are not managing to have plenty of or well-timed sex. Please don't go nuts at me. I am always a little fired-up when reading how many IVF patients are told they are simply not having enough sex (Zita) and I just think there is little point in OPKing if we don't, for whatever reason, bother to have sex when the surge is detected. I do not believe all this anecdotal 'evidence' about women getting preggo from sex they had 5 days prior to ovulation. They were either very young and have lost count of the amount of screwing they're doing or they are full to the brim of EWCM.

Bronte - I can relate to your clotting problems! I have a similar (well, sort of) issue - back in January, I spent 2 weeks in hospital with pneumonia and pulmonary embolism, which is caused by DVT. I had to take anticoagulants for 3 months after that. The most likely reason I developed the clot was -oh so ironically!- that I had started taking the pill again (the combined one, not the mini pill, which would have been what I should have taken).
So in the event that I do get pregnant, I will have to be under consultant care, take heparin by daily injection, and more likely than not, will have to consider an elective cesarian. My age and weight are not at all helpful with this either (although I'm doing something about the weight now).

However, the longer this goes on, the less I worry about it (to the point I almost don't care anymore)! I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, and at least it's something I will know about beforehand, so I will be able to deal with it. I trust that I will be taken care of - in spite of all my moaning about the NHS and health system, I have no complaints whatsoever regarding my care when I needed it, during my PE/pneumonia, my last pregnancy and the tricky birth I had.
Importantly, none of my consultants thought that this will be an issue for future pregnancies (and I grilled them on that), so that's what I'm going with.

Golden - I so agree that it really all does come down to not having enough sex. We seem to have developed a rather unhealthy pattern of having hardly any sex at all in the 3 weeks between, and then going at it like rabbits (excuse the TMI!) in the days around ovulation - and to be honest, I am exhausted! One of the rare occasions that I do have to admit that we are getting older . But I resent the fact that dtd is becoming a chore, it shouldn't be! And although he doesn't say it, I suspect that DH is starting to feel the same (I would if I was him!). I can definitively start to notice signs that he's not as young as he used to be either...sigh. Still thinking how to best suggest to him to do a fertility test... Any advice on how to best make that move?!

JBrd, I, too, am not having enough sex. Last night I asked DP why we only had sex once during the 2ww this month and he said: "I'm depressed" (I am not surprised living with me). He insists it is nothing to do with trying for a baby (he is deperate to get me pregnant and be a daddy again) and everything to do with his new job - he is exhausted every night after gruelling 12 hour days. Are there any ladies on this thread who are swimming in sperm around ovulation? If so, I am I was depressed on your behalf, JBrd, when you wrote that your husband fell asleep last night at the crucial time I seriously would have gone nuts.

I don't know if I have any advice regarding bringing up the subject of fertility tests gently/tactfully to your DP. I am afraid I am not a gentle/tactful person. I would simply tell him that you need him to give a sample so that you can at least be armed with the knowledge that everything is okay/not okay. It is the very least any of our DPs can do if we ask them to.

Golden, I have an appointment to see the GP on Nov 19. I'll discuss the clomid option then. I do find it hard to believe there's a possibility I'm not ovulating - I have the surge (according to opk's) and then I have very obvious ovary pain. I wish I knew if the pain signaled that the egg will soon be released, or if it is imminent or whether it has already happened.And what if the pain etc is all just the body trying to release an egg,but he follicle is empty????I could make myself nuts over this,so I shall remain optimistic that I am indeed firing out an egg.

I'm feeling rather pleased that my Dh was more than happy to DTD last night,and,who knows, we might just manage it again tonight. I'm pretty sure FF will pinpoint today as O day, so I should probably DTD again, but my cervix is now firm and closed, so I think the gate is shut.

I am pleased to say that my DS is now sleeping through the night (it's about bloody time, he is 4),and I've had three consecutive nights with no interruptions. Lovely. I had a dream that I was visiting a consultant chinese doctor who told me that the new statistics said that fertility declined at 55-59, not at 45-49 as previously thought. Ha,Ha, obviously dreaming then, wasn't I?

Jbrd, I know what you mean about approaching your DH about having the sperm test. After my DH had the vasectomy reversal, I was so worried that it hadn't worked,I bought a microscope and made up my own slides to see if the swimmers were present. I can't tell you the delight I felt watching those little guys madly swimming about. It was very reassuring. We had a proper test done in a lab too.

I'm not suggesting you do the same , but just wanted to say it is worth asking him to have the test, just for reassurance. And if there is an issue, there's a lot that can be done to get a better sperm count,mobility etc. I know clomid has been used on men for sperm issues, but just taking certain vitamins can have a huge impact on sperm quality and quantity.

Deige, my lovely, are you opening the Bistro tonight? I could really get my teeth into some crispy fried fish,beer batter chips and a big green salad. And seeings it's my birthday tomorrow, I'll have raspberry creme brulee for dessert. And lots,and lots of champagne.

BTW, also very excited, because for the first time in ages, I actually had EWCM yesterday.Nt swimming in it,sadly, but at least it was present.

"I bought a microscope and made up my own slides to see if the swimmers were present". Gum, you crazy bitch! I love it!

A propos ovulating: isn't it true that all women have at least two anovulatory cycles per year? If this is true, why aren't our charts reflecting this? I don't believe we are ovulating every single month, Gum (well, me, anyway..my day 21 test proved that). When I next see the nurse at the fertility clinic for my scan, I shall ask her to explain what is going on in our charts which could explain the shift in temp (and your 'ovulation pain') if indeed we have not ovulated. Do let me know, Gum, if there's anything you personally would like to know about this drug. I'll do my best to find out.

I know I'm early but...HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! xxx

Gum, you will probably think I am nuts but I promise you that recently I read that 'ovulation pain' is usually a signal that a too-ripe follicle (which consultants call a cyst) has burst. This is the source of the pain. Any follicle measuring more than 25mm is considered a 'cycst'. I am wondering, then, what a chart would look like where ripened follicles have been present but no egg was released or, alternatively, the follicle(s) has burst. I am still in the dark as to why my chart showed 'ovulation' when my day 21 result proved I had not.

gum - love the anecdote about the microscope! You know, I could actually do that, or something similar - I work in a science lab, lots and lots of microscopes about. Just need to think about how to get DH's sperm there in time (I assume it needs to be fresh?)
But maybe I'll settle for a home test first.

Well, I think that's it for me trying for this cycle - I was planning for another round of dtd, to make sure everything is covered, but DH has just thrown a massive hissy fit and gone off to bed. He's not feeling well and is apparently in pain, which has turned him into a stroppy a**le. He's never been good with handling pain, but this is ridiculous - why do I have to get snapped just for asking how he feels and trying to help? I suggested calling NHS Direct, and he completely flipped, slamming the stairgate and muttering something about 'never should've mentioned it'. Excuse me?! I'm so cross right now that I feel like making him sleep in the spare room, the idiot. But guess who will be driving him to A&E if it turns out to be the same thing again like last time this happened?!

I really don't need this right now - starting to feel a bit 'frayed at the edges', it's all getting a bit too much... Sometimes it feels there's never a break - worrying about work and ttc at the same time is not a good combination!

Better go and get some sleep, who knows when I'll have to get up again...

Fancy a giggle? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/other_subjects/1607191-Bloke-sacked-from-fruit-shop-is-taking-his-employers-to-court?pg=1

Oh, JBrd, I am so sorry. We crossed posts. Can you tell us what pain your DP has? Does he have some kind of 'condition'? It's horrid, that stinging aftermath of a row when both parties are left seething - especially when it's supposed to be sexy time. Totally and utterly frustrating. I'm so sorry you're having to try to sleep on this. Deep breaths, pet, and I hope your hubby feels a right twat in the morning x

Golden - thanks for your kind words. This whole thing would be funny if it wasn't so infuriating!
It's one of his balls that is hurting. And no, I'm not kidding. He had this exact same thing a few years ago, and it got so bad that we ended up in A&E because the pain was so strong. There is a quite serious condition called testicular torsion where a bloke's balls can get into a sort of twisted position (due to whatever reason, don't demand any details), which results in inflammation, cut-off of blood supply and all sorts of other nasties, and it can turn out really bad if it's not recognised and treated in time. And that time is very short, you have to do something within 6 hours to avoid any serious damage. In the worst case, surgery is necessary.

Last time, all turned out well, and although we never found out why his ball hurt, it wasn't because of twisting (god, this sounds so stupid when I write it down). But we had to spend the night in A&E - where fortunately, they took it very seriously! But can you imagine having to tell someone that your balls hurt?! As a bloke, I mean.

Like I said, it would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

So now DH is worried it's going to be the same thing again - which is why I suggested calling NHS Direct, to get some reassurance about what to do. Still don't understand why he flipped, he knows I want to help.

Men, eh? Sigh...

Oh, JBrd, your poor hubby and poor you. Testicles can be very, very tricky and I am not laughing at all. What the heck is up, I wonder? I'll bet he freaked out before at the mention of NHS Direct because it was such an (emotionally?) painful experience last time? Men find it so incredibly difficult getting medical help for something embarrassing. I don't know what to say... x

I am at work, and on the iPad, so there could be some spellos. I should be making worksheets for my year eights, but just had to drop in and send ahug to jbrd because it really sounds awful, and difficult. Your poor DH. I do hope you can get to the bottom of what is ailing him.

As for testing the sperm, it needs a little time to liquefy (info probably easily found on the net), and shouldn't be left too much longer than 40 minutes I think, or they'll start dying off. For the official sperm test, my DH ejaculated at home, I put the sample ( in jar) between my breasts to keep it warm and alive as I had a 20 minute drive to the lab. Some labs and hospitals insist on the sample being "provided" at the hospital/ lab, but there were no facilities ain my town.

golden I will have to take that info about pain and ovulation with a pinch of salt as I have always had the o pain, and have had nine pregnancies(5 live births) resulting from sex happening around ovulation pain( except my first pregnancy at the age of 19 when I had sex on day 7 or 8 of my cycle and ended up pregnant, I had a hard time believing it and it ended with a termination ). So there must have been an egg. I have also had a cyst and the pain when that happens was on a whole different level - excruciating. I have had annovulatory cycles which I temped through whilst breast feeding, and there was no obvious temperature shift.

Better do some work...

I just found this, golden you might find it interesting:
"I wanted to share with you what my former doctor e-mailed me when I inquired about adequate progesterone levels indicating that ovulation did in fact occur. Do with it what you wish, but after amazengrace's post, I thought it may be very useful:
Progesterone is secreted by the ovary in an odd fashion. The blood levels follow the every-90-minutes LH pulses. As a result the level in any woman who is ovulating varies from 3 ng/mL to 25 ng/mL depending on when it is drawn relative to the most recent LH pulse. When women are anovulatory, the levels of progesterone rarely are above 0.2 ng/mL so there is little trouble separating the ovulatory from the anovulatory groups. The problem comes when physicians take the test beyond what it can do and try to determine the quality of the luteal progesterone production thinking, erroneously, that a 15 ng/mL progesterone indicates a better luteal phase and hence chance of conception than a level of 5 ng/mL. Put more simply, any ovulation is as good as any other ovulation when the progesterone level is 3ng/mL or greater. "

But since reading that it seems in the uk, you use different measuments and that info was from the us.

Sorry, I doubt it helps.