Fantastic 40+ Thread - Part Eight.

[goldengirl71]

"Come on ovaries! Let's get this party started, yeah?"

Found this one on mumsnet:"I really have to put to bed this myth that you need a level of 30 to show ovulation. You need a level of around 30 to sustain a pregnancy but it's perfectly possible to have ovulated on levels in the teens. I have been pregnant on levels of 18. The fact that this myth is perpetuated means, in my opinion, that many women are being told that they are not ovulating and getting pregnant when infact they are ovulating but their progesterone levels are not reaching high enough levels for implantation to occur and infact they're often having multiple very early miscarriages.

I had 4 m/c when ttc #2 and my levels never went over 23. All pregnancies were confirmed by blood tests. My 5th pregnancy had a level of 7 and doppler ultrasound showed no progesterone activity at all yet I had a BFP and once on progesterone supplements went onto have a healthy 41 week baby."

Right, I really am going to do those worksheets now.

Hi all. I used to be on this thread and wanted to pass on how helpful and supportive I found it through my difficulties ttc. I am now up doing night feeds for my beautiful dd of 5 months at 42 years old. I think I would have given up after a second mmc but for being able to vent my anxieties on here and get so many tips. It did seem to stop my life for a while and it is hard but there is always hope if you really want a baby.
Babydust and hugs to you all. Hi to diege gum, fireflies,lol, bb tina fingers crossed and anyone I've missed.

jbrd my hubby had exactly the same thing - a terrific pain in on etesticle - the dr sent him straight to hospital as he thought it was twisted, in the end after scans etc he found he had a bad infection which was cured with antibiotics but it was a worrying time, not least because I had to bully my husband into going to the docs at all!

shandy lovely to hear from you, it all sounds good, how many times a night does your little one get you up?

I am feeling extreme;y hormonal at the moment and the slightest thing is setting me off into rages or tears - one good thing is that my boobs have perked up considerably and my nipples are now pointing out instead of to the floor hooray! I can't stand anything being near near them as they are so sore but that is a good sign i hope that my hormone levels are strong.

Just having a frustrating time at the moment trying to get into NHS antenatal care now my clinic has released me - the process seems to have deteriorated since i had my daughter 21 years ago and now consists of the receptionist putting a form in a basket for the midwife to see and pick up as and when she feels like it - do they have no sense of urgency for gods sake!!!!

Thanks, Gum, for that info. Again, I'm reluctant to believe what I read on the internet - even mumsnet - and I agree the stuff I read about ovulation pain sounds a complete nonsense. Have you charted an anovulatory cycle since ceasing to breastfeed? Surely that's about two years ago and your charts should have seen at least a couple?

What would you say to a consultant who told you that, with a day 21 score of 18.5 you hadn't ovulated, despite what your charts showed? I wish I could put this mystery to bed. What does anyone else think?

Shandy, thanks for coming back to encourage us! Were you 41 when you conceived? Was it your first child?

Tina, are you around seven weeks pregnant? When I was pregnant my seventh and eighth weeks found me morphed into a she-devil. I had such rage coursing through my veins. Sorry you feel like a number in the NHS system, I fear you have nailed what the problem is. Enjoy your perky knockers! x

Right-o, I'm off to do some weight training. I did an hour of spinning last night and felt utterly rejuvenated. I almost cleaned the bathroom

golden I'm 9 weeks pregnant on Monday and yes I feel terrific rage over the smallest things I can't do anything about, eg stuff I see on the news, bad drivers etc! I yelled at my husband the other week probably for the first time ever as I'm so mild mannered normally and he was totally shocked lol

can't remember being like this before but i guess i've got double the amount of hormones this time haha

have a great weekend everyone - am going to have a naughty takeaway curry tomorrow night so no cooking for me hooray!

The first pregnancy on the Clomid thread has been announced!!

This lady has only been with us for ten days and hadn't even started her Clomid yet! She was on day 20 of her cycle when she joined us and was desperately awaiting AF so she could start. She was refused Clomid until recently because she had a BMI of 30.7 She was told she couldn't have Clomid until she got her BMI down to 30 which she recently did. Her cycles were anything up to 73 days in length and has had several chemical pregnancies due to too-low progesterone. She is 32. Jammy, jammy, jammy...

...forgot the most important bit: this lady saw EWCM from CD13-16, has no idea when she ovulated but had sex on CD14 and CD18. Do you think EWCM is the answer?

Well, Golden, I think EWCM must help, but I wouldn't say it is the answer. I have gotten pregnant in my 40's without a lot of EWCM. I've gotten pregnant when it was "wet", but not the classic EWCM. Of course it helps. I'd say the lady on your thread ovulated around the day 14 sex. The EWCM will help keep sperm nourished and active for longer, but then so will the sperm friendly lubricant (which,incidentally, I used with the conception of my DS, but not the other pregnancies).Her weight loss may be a factor too.

I think the answer to getting pregnant is a combination of factors - cervical mucus,sex at the right time, popping out an egg (and a good healthy one at that, with a shell that isn't too hard to break),unblocked follopian tubes,a nice spongy endometrium that isn't too thin or too thick, enough progesterone to sustain a pregnancy etc, etc.

And the annoying fact is that it is very hard for us to control any of it, especially as we age. Our eggs can be less than perfect, with hard shells, our follicles might not release the egg.Our lining could be too thin or too thick, our hormones might be slightly out of whack. We are up against it. But over and over, we see women here who have babies, so, sometimes the planets align and all the factors are right and a baby happens.

That's why you just have to consistently keep at it (if your emotional health can handle it) because you might just have it all fall into place one of these months.Golden, you got pregnant before, there's a very good chance you will again.

Shandy - so nice to hear from you. I just love babies at the 4-5 month age, they are gorgeous. Enjoy every minute, the grow so fast (I know, boring old cliche, but just so true).

My DH and I didn't manage a third night in a row (which was O day, but my cervix was well and truly firm and closed by last night). We might have managed it but we got a phone call last night because his mother may have had a stroke.He stayed up hoping to hear more news, but won't know anything til this morning. So I was fast asleep by the time he came in.I think MIL had a small stroke and it was probably more of a warning than something major, or at least I hope so.

I woke up very early, but still had a nicely risen temperature,so I guess I did ovulate. Golden, I had a look over my charts for the last year or so, and apart from after the miscarriage,and a couple of short cycles, I can't really spot anovulatory cycles. All of the cycles have an obvious temperature rise. But if every woman supposedly has two anovulatory cycles every year, I can't actually spot them.And is that absolutely true?Is it every woman, every year?

Gum, sorry about your MIL and I hope you get reassuring news. Did you have a good birthday? What pressies did you get?

Maybe the 'rule' concerning anovulatory cycles is bullshit; I've given up remembering where and when I heard all this stuff - certainly not from anyone with any authority or I would remember. Tell me, though..fertile cervical mucus dries up as soon as we ovulate, no? If this is the case, and the lady on the Clomid thread had EWCM from CD13-16, would not that indicate that she ovulated on CD16 at the latest? Another lady on that thread said she keeps reading that the most fertile day to get pregnant is two days before ovulation. Funnily enough, when I got pregnant in January, our intercourse pattern followed this: -4 -2 and 0 (zero being ovulation day). I do wonder whether ovulation day itself is too hit and miss. I also read somewhere else that sperm needs to be in the female's body for ten hours before it is capable of fertilising an egg (just reading this back to myself makes me wince it sounds so infantile a theory )

I am getting panicky about never having a baby. Please don't go nuts at me saying I am still young. I don't understand why I haven't had a BFP in seven months (although, looking at my charts, my progesterone levels were pretty erratic until July and I don't believe they would have sustained a pregnancy). My ovarian reserve is very good (6.5 and 8.5 FSH in the last three months of testing) for my age. My uterus lining is 'nice and thick' (Linda the fertility nurse). My BMI is 24 and I lead possibly the most relaxed life you could wish for (except in my head). We have well-timed sex. I am teetotal and don't smoke. I exercise. Most of all I am worried

I forgot to mention that DP has said we can afford IUI if the Clomid fails to result in a baby. I know the success rates aren't much higher than for natural conception but I like the idea that they would choose the best of DP's spasticated 3% morphology sperm and place it in exactly the right place at exactly the right time...especially in conjunction with Clomid. I love what it has done to my progesterone levels Can I have some opinions, please?

hopefulglum I just wanted to say that I hope you get good news regarding your mother-in-law. What a stressful time it must be.

Since the iud came out and we (read I) have decided to carpe diem and become shagging machines. Yesterday was cd14 so we dtd as we did the night before. And whilst I claimed to not want to start counting days, I clearly am! I also have diarised what day to test. So, yeah, there's that too!

We haven't told anyone IRL that we are trying. We only got married in July but I think most people expect us not to because of my age. DH's parents will be over the moon if it happens. Not sure my 13 yo will share their joy. We have raised it with her, in general terms, and her only worry was that any new baby would get her room! Priorities.

it isn't common to have a month where you don't ovulate- unless you have something wrong or are reaching menopause. But it isn't supposed to be a cause for concern if it happens on occasion. I guess Gps put out that its normal to have one or two because they don't want to be swamped with women who think they haven't ovulated- and its hard to prove without a blood test/ scan- flooding their surgeries. FWIW my female clued up GP told me a sustained temp rise was a very good indicator.

I agree with gum on what leads to a pregnancy. I got pregnant last year with very little EWCM (i later MC). I now have more- B6 was helped with that.

Bluebird, thanks for your imput and I'm sorry to hear about your miscarriage. My also-clued-up fertility consultant told me that charting temperatures is an archaic and fruitless exercise, although I suspect it is in some professionals' interests that we remain disempowered and uninformed about our fertility (more scope for them to demand that we 'need' IVF). Now I am on Clomid, the nurse is very much of the opinion that I should step away from the charts, trust what we see on the scan, SWI as dictated by the HCG shot and then wait for day 21 results. Sounds like a plan to me

Bronte, nicely-timed bed-rocking! Will you go for a hat-trick tonight?

Pre-Seed is my new best friend. I was really dry last night after removing a tampon for sex (I know, sorry) so out came the lube and it was like chucking a sausage down Blackpool prom. Nice.

*imput?!

Calibee and Diege, I miss your chit-chat x

Golden,I think you ought to go for the IUI if you want to.It might help to have the concentrated sperm all put into the right spot at the right time. At least if you do it you'll know you did what you could to get the baby you want. You are doing what you can, hang in there honey

Thanks for your thoughts about MIL. It isn't great - she has slurred speech and her heart is playing up.They have her in the high care ward. DH and his siblings haven't heard much from doctors, it's hard to say what the prognosis is at this time. We'll have to wait and see. Poor DH is very worried. He's also feeling quite tired, so we are not going out,as planned,for my birthday. I don't mind, I've had a lovely birthday despite what happened to MIL.

My DH gave me a beautiful string of pearls and the kids showered me with gifts. Whilst I was out having coffee with a couple of girlfriends, my DD's cleaned the house - so nice to come home to it. Dh and I had a relaxed afternoon after going out for lunch.

I've just had a look at my charts Golden, and these were the patterns of DTD on my pregnancy charts:
-4,-2,0
-5,-3,-1,0
-5,-3,-1,0
-1,0

Each of them have in common that we DTD on ovulation day. But that doesn't mean it wasn't the -1 or -2 days that did the trick.

And I looked at other charts where I didn't get a BFP and there's all sorts of patterns, including sex on -2,-1 and 0 days. If it is sex on O day that did it, I won't be in luck this month. But everything I read says it is sex in the run up to ovulation, so the sperm is ready and waiting in the fallopian tube, when the egg is released,that is all important.

Incidentally, I have been charting since 2007 and have 45 charts! Blimey

I guess it's very much a personal choice if and how you track your cycles. I was a bit dubious about temping at the beginning, but then quite amazed at how clear the pattern was. I guess a key point is to use it in conjuction with other methods, like OPKs (has anyone ever tried ferning btw?).
But I also see how easy it is to get caught up in it all, and end up fretting/obsessing all the charts and data. I can't help thinking that it's not very helpful for relaxing - which I still believe contributes to successful conception!

To that end I have decided to treat myself to some reflexology. Not so much because I believe that it can help with ttc (although I hope it might be a much-welcomed side effect ), but because I just love it. I had it when I was pregnant with DS, as one of my increasingly desperate measures to get labour going - it did bugger all for that, but it was soooooo nice. So it's going to be a treat for myself, like a massage/facial/spa. Incidentally, the lady I go to is a registered midwife

golden I can understand the panicky feeling, I have moments where I feel the same. When we decided to try for kids a couple of years ago, I told DH that I didn't want just one, if we're doing this, we might as well go for it - both of us come from larger families, and I really really want sibling(s) for DS! And not too far apart either, I want them to play together and be friends, which I think is easier when they are closer together.
And when I see the age gap between DS and any potential sibling getting bigger and bigger, I find it difficult not to stress about it. Currently, we are at 2 yrs 3 months, and in my stupid head the stupid clock is ticking - together with my stupid biological one!

And why shouldn't you try IUI?! I'd say go for it if you can, why shouldn't you try everything that's available to you?
I think I'm going to take courage today and ask DH if he'd object to a fertility test - a home one to start with, to check what that gives us. He's a very laid back person, so I'm hoping he will be OK.

And thanks again everyone for your kind words a couple of days ago, when we were worried about DH's ball and testicular torsion - it all seems to have phased out, he said that it's still a bit sore, but no shooting pains anymore. I suspect that the fact that he got kneed in the crutch by accident by DS that day might have been a contributing factor! But - I'm still waiting for an excuse for his uncalled-for tantrum with me!

Mammoth post, sorry - can you tell I'm home alone, the boys have gone out into town...

i've read in several places that you are more likely to conceive from having sex the day before or even 2 days before ovulation, than on the actual day itself. Of course for most people we don't know exact time we ovulated so unless someone is having a scan and follow up blood tests we really can't pinpoint exact moment.
Trying to get in 3 shags over the 5 days you are most fertile would be very sensible. There is no way of knowing which day you conceived on unless you only did on the one occasion- and some research does come from that- I think from women getting pregnant when their partners were home on leave from war for just the one night.

npr.pl/badania/timing_intercourse.pdf

Gum, I so appreciate it when you trawl through your charts and come and tell us your findings. Thank you. I find the whole intercourse timing thing fascinating (had you not already guessed) and fret about it very much, especially as DP's ejaculatory issues preclude any rabbit-like shagging. I can't help thinking the same about sperm in situ immediately prior to ovulation being key...so why is DP insisting that we refrain entirely from DTD this month in the week before ovulation and go for it twice on the day?? Aaaaaargh!! I am already fretting.

I'm sorry you have the worry of your MIL's health. Poor DH. But what a wonderful guy!! PEARLS?!? You lucky girl.

JBrd, please don't apologise for 'mammoth' posts - it makes me feel a whole lot better about being a thread hog [hangs head in embarrassment]. So pleased your husband's pain has receded. Fancy being booted in the crotch! Sickening! Do enjoy your reflexology - if it brings some balance to your head I'm not going to knock it. I had to smile at your wanting more than one child at this age; I still want four and am holding out for two eggs to be release both of which split into twins. Not too much to ask, is it?

Gum - sorry to hear about your MIL! Hope things will improve soon, and that your DH can relax a bit. These things are never easy, having to worry about your parents is awful. Sending hugs!

45 charts, blimey indeed! I'm only just on my second one...

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/nov/09/having-first-baby-at-51

i haven't read it all- very long, but thought it may be of interest.

Bluebird, thank you for your links...am going to read them now

Interesting: 'The rise in urine LH occurs on average about 24 hours before
ovulation, although there is significant variability in this (from about 16 hours to 48 hours before ovulation). Therefore, in a significant proportion of women, the time of highest probability of conception may have already passed by the time the LH surge is detected.'

Even more interesting: 'For many cycles, it is likely that the 2 days of ?peak? fertility identified by the ClearPlan Easy Fertility Monitor do not fully coincide with the 2 days when intercourse is most likely to result in pregnancy. As illustrated in Figure 1, the 2 days with the highest probability of pregnancy will probably be the day before the LH surge and the day of the LH surge itself. However, the monitor identifies the day of the LH surge and the day immediately after as the days of ?peak? fertility.'

Eeek!: 'This provides direct empirical evidence that the presence of vaginal
discharge from type E mucus [EWCM] strongly correlates with the probability of conception.'

Bluebird, thanks for this article.