Fantastic 40+ Thread - Part Eight.

[goldengirl71]

"Come on ovaries! Let's get this party started, yeah?"

Evening all!
Such a lot goes on between one of my posts and the next! It's great to see so much discussion and support. It seems as though the last 24 hours, or thereabouts, have taken their toll on lots of us. For my part, this ttc shenanigans seems to bring out the best and the worst in me! Never have I been more aware of my body or looked after myself as much, or wanted to be part of something and united in a cause. Conversely, never have I been so obsessive, navel gazing and pitiful when I don't get what I want!

Anyway, sorry I'm late Tina, but I wanted to add my excitement and congratulations! Your posts have cheered me up!

Evening . Back from cinema/pizza hut/toy-shop hell, totally fleeced, but dd3 had a ball .
somewhere, I agree this is a remarkable thread, and it is good that we can all be so frank yet at the same time provide such great support. I truly wish I was able to get a research bid to study our on-line chat though not sure I can fit it in my lit' review for Help the Aged. Actually, maybe I can

golden hope the weekend away gives you a bit of space. I truly believe you will be successful in your quest, if not this month then certainly over the next few. Does the success rate with clomid increase with the amount of time it's taken? On the note of your frankness, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with opening up the debate on stopping ttc-ing, indeed we had that many moons ago on here. The difference being that it was initiated by the posters which I suppose it makes the tone/inference slightly different on a ttc-thread? Anyway, really hope you're doing ok and feel better for a bit of head space x
Ho netguru, tiger, good to hear from you

Deige, I laughed out loud when you said maybe this could be a study for helping the aged!

I agree about frank discussion and I think supporting one another is what is so fabulous about this thread. And, yes, as somewhere said, we are all different.I wouldn't say I "love" being pregnant, but I do love the end result,and ultimately, that's why we are all here.

I admit that I want to prove something too- I want to prove the naysayers and pessimists wrong.But it isn't because I want to get one over them, it is because I want a baby.

I suppose at my age it is important to be realistic. And I think I am, but it doesn't mean I will give up, and I will remain positive and believe there is a chance, because that keeps me sane.

When I had coffee with my sister yesterday we talked about clomid. She thinks I should give it a go, but I still feel reluctant. I have an appointment with my doctor this week for a pap smear (hurray ) and I will see what she thinks and also ask for a progesterone script. I have read so many times that as we age our hormones are not high enough or steady enough and it can cause miscarriage. I know all about old eggs and chromosomal issues, but my second miscarriage (although they botched the tests) eventually found that my little boy did not have the major trisomies (13,18 or 21), so there is a chance that my hormones dropped too early. I don't see the harm in supporting a pregnancy with progesterone, because it won't stop a miscarriage if it is going to happen anyway.I wish we could take it in pill form.The suppositories sound ghastly and messy. I bet if it was a drug for men they would find a more convenient way to give it.

I'm sure I told you the story of a colleague's wife (who has just had baby 14 at the age of 44) who had two miscarriages in her 40's, then the doctor suggested progesterone and she has had a baby at 43 and 44. Her hubby said they are going to try again for another daughter (as they have ten sons).

Fireflies, did you have that list of supplements handy?

Just did some more research on clomid and it seems my instincts are right. I won't be trying it. Let me know if you want to read about it, I'll pm you the link.I don't want to be "debbie downer" and put the link on this thread.

hopeful I would be interested in reading more about clomid if you don't mind passing on the link. I don't think you're certifiable for wanting another baby to add to your brood(but who am I to talk,maybe we should both be certified!) We are all different as somewhere pointed out, and the pain of ttc when you don't have children must be difficult too,but I know for me having kids already doesn't stop my heart longing for a baby. It may seem irrational for me to keep going but like you I feel I need that hope.
Your colleague's wife is an inspiration by the way!
Golden of course I forgive you,I don't think for a moment you meant to be hurtful though I won't lie and say that I didn't find your posts about me hard to read. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and straight talking can be a good thing!
Sounds like you had a good day out Diege ,I think kids do really appreciate some one to one time and you certainly packed a lot into a day.
Hope you've had fun on your night out CaliBee!
Sorry AF arrived wylie.
tina has the news of twins actually sunk in yet? Very exciting!
Hi to tiger and Netguru.
Hope everyone else is having a good weekend.

irish, I have sent the link to your inbox.

Thanks hopeful !

Tina huge congrats xxx

Can you post it to me please hopeful . I'm armed and ready with my prescription to start in the next few days so I doubt it will change my mind but I'm sure it will make intersting reading.
I have found that with everything I google that I can find an article for and against....to the point where even the "experts" have differing opinions.

Morning Hope everyone is ok and enjoying the weekend. Dd3's party this afternoon, which will be a minor ordeal (playbarn) but again worth taking a deep breath and just getting through it...
You know this lit review I'm doing for HTA is on housing, but I am now never going to be able to think about it in the same way...I'll end up recommending swanky new appartments with stocks of opks in the bathroom and folic-acid fortified bread. And of course a Friday night meals-on-wheels bistro
Cd2 here - have had a wtf cycle and obviously the ewm of the other day was the type you sometimes get pre-af. Pleased actually as I know where I am now!

Gum, I have read your article and am appalled at the scaremongering tactics of these IVF 'experts' who clearly would prefer us to be spending thousands of pounds at their clinics rather than trying Clomid. Thank you for your concern and I would not discourage anyone considering this drug to remain ignorant regarding its side effects. However, I trust my GP and I trust my consultant. I do not trust the unethical pseudo-science pumped out by IVF websites.

At the end of the day...for those who do not have thousands of pounds to spend, then I'm still with the Clomid. I think all those consultants who prescribe it to ladies >40 who have tests showing poor ovarian reserve, would be quaking in their boots during the current "lets sue them " culture if they had any real worries about what the article shows. At the end of the day I could take Clomid for three months....find out that it had ruined any further chances of conception and have a wickedly good case against the precribing Dr...would I not?!!
I would love to get OH's sperm frozen and be able to have IUI for a raised chance of pregnancy (especially now he is away). But...the chance is still low. I have no idea how much this would cost but I'm guessing into the thousands.....I'm sure they would even charge me a few hundred to sit in front of them and have them tell me how much exactly what it would cost.

This is the response of a lady on the Clomid thread who has read the link:

"Oh my. I would very much err on the side of: he's an IVF doctor, he's based in the States, medicine in the States is very much about getting paid the big bucks and as much intervention as humanly possible (have you seen the Business of Being Born? Bsaically about how high the C section rate over there is because the doctors and hospitals make more cash from C sections than vaginal births)

He doesn't cite any peer reviewed studies or link to any information that backs up what he is saying.

I'm totally with you that you can't trust what one website says - there is so much madness out there on the net, based on the things I've read I'll either never have children or I should be carrying triplets right about now!

What he says in the first paragraph about clomid being ineffective after 3 months is simply not true - I managed to find an article ages ago online from one of the obs & gynae journals which showed a graph of clomid success; yes, it tapered off dramatically after the 3 month mark but it still rose."

Golden,I did warn you about the article. It's not at all positive for over forties. I agree, it's just a doctor from an IVF clinic, but honestly,I can't find anything that is positive about clomid for women over 40,and I have looked. I wanted to know why it is that they don't like prescribing clomid to women over 40, because I have heard that over and over again on forums of over forties ttc. Some of what he said in the article explained why.I read in another article that a different fertility drug is better for women over 40.I know your doctor told you 40% of women taking clomid get pregnant (which is a fabulous rate),but what I have read gives very different stats for the over 40's.here is one study

I know there is a lot of scaremongering out there,particularly with fertility clinics, so I don't believe everything I read.I do just want to know whether taking clomid at my age is a good idea. I don't want my fertility fucked up because I took a fertility drug.

Further searches show that the FDA suggests that clomid use should be limited to 6 months.

Ultimately, if I were 41, I wouldn't consider it to be an issue, I'd probably give clomid a go, but as a woman of almost 46, I think it is a very different thing, and as I said before, the article,and the stuff I've read was about whether the drug was for me.

I know that if I get pregnant and have a baby it will be miraculous, but as long as I am open to it,there's a chance.

Calibee, it sounds like you may have already seen the article? If not,let me know if you still want to read it.

Hello . Nothing to add clomid-wise (I'll stick to my 'plastic clomid' a la Agnus Castus ) but I can understand why it's such a heated subject. So many things to consider, not least consultants' interests, mixed research, etc etc. I think hypothetically I would take at 42, but maybe not at post-45. Thankfully I don't need to make that decision. This would be an icing on the cake baby for me (think I said that a few years ago ) but I realise how very very fortunate I am to be in that position.
Working from home today and trying to put off the work...need to go in to town to collect some plastic tat for the dcs to give dd3 for her birthday (weds) and have the barbie princess to popstart doll reserved at Toys R Us...THis time next week it will be all go for dd2's birthday...Don't you just love Valentine's day conceptions
Hope everyone is well - very very cold here today!

Tested there now with frer at 10 days p.o. And a BFN. V disappointed

Hi all!
Diege it's a cold day here too but really bright and sunny. I finished work early today and have just taken the dog out for a long walk,if you wrap up it's lovely to be out in the fresh air and alone with your thoughts for a bit.I'm having a cup of tea now before I crack on with some housework but am easily distracted by Mumsnet!
You have a lot of birthday's close together in your family! How old are your dds? My dd2 has moved on from Barbies to Monster High dolls, we too have toy boxes overflowing with plastic.
Hopeful I found the article on Clomid interesting and thought provoking. It's definitely a good idea to read around the subject, it's certainly not straight forward and suitability probably varies with different individual's history and circumstances.
My Mum was talking recently about a friend of hers who had fertility treatment in her youth to help her conceive,had several miscarriages along the way though did have four children and then had a surprise baby completely naturally at 47!
Miracles can happen, just hope there are some little miracles coming our way in 2013!

littlepink, posts crossed, sorry about your BFN, but 10dpo is early, it's not over yet! x

littlepink agree that 10dpo is very early to test and get a positive (is it only 30% of women who would get a + then, or is it less?). Do you 'feel' pre-menstrual?
Hi Irish! I'm going to have to force myself out to get the plastic tat - it must be done as there's no time at all tomorrow with work etc and will feel very pleased when it's all wrapped. Dd3 will be 7, dd2 10 (next week) and dd1 is 11. Ds2's due date was actually nov 2 (but born 28 oct) otherwise it would have been 3 weeks in the row. Psychologically the end of oct seems further back than it really is!. How old are your dcs?

Hi irish and diege. Thanks for your replies. Have a rotten head cold at the minute but not feeling either premenstrual or otherwise at the moment. Only tested cos I'd got 3 for 2 in boots and the frer had an extra free one too!

Do think though that the frer are v accurate even early in. Have any of you got a BFP after an early BFP?

Happy birthday to my beautiful 13 year old daughter today! Having a little family tea later!

Brrrr it is cold but beautifully fresh today! Happy Monday ladies x

Hi Littlepink. Happy birthday for your dd , hope you all have a lovely day x Re: testing, I've generally had a bfp by about cd13 (havent tested earlier than that will the bfps iirc). With dd3 I had a bfn on cd 14, and got a pos 6 days later when I tested again. I was a naive 35 year old though and knew nothing of the world of opks and temping, so presumably I ovualted late in my cycle.

thanks for all your kind words everyone, it's so lovely to be on the receiving end of them! It's started to sink in a little now and I'm beginning to feel really excited now - I must admit my first reaction was arghh how am I going to cope?! But I've got a very enthusiastic and excited dh so I'm sure we'll manage and I feel so incredibly lucky to have not one but two babies to look forward to, it'll be lovely to know too that they'll have a little playmate in each other and not be on their own.

can't really add much to the clomid debate - I didn't use it but I did have menopur twice when I did my IUI's which works in a similar way - I responded really well to it and got a good amount of follicles but unfortunately for me it didn't work, I'm glad I tried it but my egg reserves were low so I agreed with my consultant who said that what eggs I did have were likely to be of poor quality and that was why I didn't even get to the point of conceiving let alone managing to carry a baby even for a few weeks. Thats not the case for everyone though and I think it's always worth a go trying it, especially given the cost of further treatment as I can testify too.

At the end of the day its an individual decision and everyone is different, my eggs obviously went 'off' sooner than other womens do!

By the way golden don't be gone too long will you, I'll really miss your sense of humour and candour

I am having a horrible day (sorry to moan) just waiting for AF. I'm grumpy, too, and am taking it out on everyone on facebook who annoys the hell out of me anyway. I am on a mission to get defriended. I don't care. Yet another 'friend' is pregnant. She is 38 with two kids of 14 & 18 and she is an ex-porn actress (not that this has anything to do with anything). Another two of my 'friends' who have just had babies are back on cocaine within weeks of having their children in a desperate bid to regain their figures and some 'kudos'. One of them doesn't mention her baby - ever. Not out of respect for my sensitivities but because he is the least interesting thing in her life. She's just flown back from Belgium where she had her tits re-done and an acid peel which almost bloody killed her. Yet another 'friend' of 37 admitted to the inflated tits girl that she went back on amphetamines recently at week 30 of her pregnancy as 'I've done everything I can by 30 weeks to nurture the baby. She'll be fine'. These women I am talking about are all ex-strippers who I knew in the industry and are all well-educated (one is now a solicitor) and yet strangely dissociated from motherhood. I have never seen anything like it when they visit (which isn't very often - I hate visitors and I hate them especially). The inflated tits girl's baby has had to wear a special helmet for the last few months for 23 hours a day because his head is flat at the back from being laid down too much (she is the solicitor but I suspect she is now also a high-class escort). Fucking hell I cannot believe I spent a decade working with these people. I can't believe they are all mothers.

I must not judge...I must not judge...I must not judge.

Another thing that's pissing me off is the box of Milk Tray DP bought me yesterday (sweetheart). What the fuck have Cadbury's done?? Who needs a honey-flavoured caramel? I nearly threw up. Isn't it enough that I already have to toss the vomit-inducing turkish delight into the bin? And what happened to the fabulously gritty fudge? It's morphed into a lame Milky Way texture

I think we can all safely assume that my period is, indeed, on its way. The excellent news is that I got my day 21 progesterone result: 71.6!! Pre-Clomid result was 18.5. The consultant's secretary said it's a "marvellous result!" but I cried and said yes, but I'm still not pregnant after releasing two eggs and can she please tell me how quickly the consultant will increase my dose to 100mg and she said, "but you've ovulated! It has already worked!" She sounded like a proud mother

Pink, far too early to test (however...we just know, don't we? )

Flipping heck, I am supposed to be taking a little sabbatical from here but...

Happy birthday to those whose children are having them.