Fantastic 40+ Thread - Part Eight.

[goldengirl71]

"Come on ovaries! Let's get this party started, yeah?"

Gosh golden you have had it tough but are a shining example of ' I get knocked down....' I work in mental health and have also suffered problems as well.

Love to all.. Now in the wonderful 2 we! But no symptom spotting. Reckon we should get our BFPs close together golden !

Hello! I have been lurking on this thread for a while, and just cannot resist telling GoldenGirl that my little sister had a very similar experience being a "late developer", while I and my older sister developed much earlier, so I was dubious when her doc told her as a teenager that "all girls develop differently". Fast forward 20 years, she was TTC for ages before being diagnosed with a tiny tumour (no problems from it, other than the late developing, slightly long cycles) AND she went on Clomid AND she got BFP two months later!!!

I just want to say I know this thread is about TTC but some really impressive honesty is taking place about mental health. This is quite zeitgeisty given Ed Miliband's comments yesterday and i just wanted to quickly remark on it. I have a severely mentally ill person in my family who is actually slightly dangerous so I know it's not a simple equation. But people like that are in the minority. I have also had struggles with my mental health and I know that most of us are just trying to live a normal life and contribute to society and look after the people we love. Whilst I don't see any simple remedy for talking to employers and even friends about it I just think it's tremendous to see people speaking up about it on here.
baby dust to you all and hugs xx

and guess what - i just posted this on another completely unrelated thread!!!!

Bloody hell, Pink, no pressure, then! I think I will be hopelessly optimistic and do a preggo test this Saturday (11DPO). My period is due three days later. What do you think, folks?

Frothytop, I could kiss you. Thank you so much for coming out of the 'lurky corner' to share that story with me. I was thrilled. Please come out of the shadows and join us if you'd like P.s. what with yours and Trippletipple's names a recovering alcoholic could start to get a little jittery, if you know what I mean

Somewhere, hiya sweetheart. You have alluded to your mental health experiences in the past and I thinnk you, too, sound rather courageous. It's tough having close relatives who are ill. My father, although not dangerous, was a non-criminal sexual predator amongst women and a manic depressive to boot. My sister and I witnessed four of my father's six suicide attempts before the ages of 13 and 10 respectively. I developed an obsessive fear of death and mental illness and mirrored some of my father's sexual deviance in later years. The difference between me and my father is that, until I became an alcoholic, none of my behaviours impacted on anybody else. I wasn't hurting other human beings. My dad was a contemptuous twat with my mother and she suffered greatly in her marriage and my sister and I saw and heard things which no children should.

I have been under two psychologists and required antidepressents sporadically for the last two decades (ironically I quit them yesterday - brace yourselves, girls!) Oddly enough, my fear of death, pain, suicide and everything disappeared over the years I was an alcoholic. I welcomed death and yeared for it many times. Too many times in hospital and then in rehab make you kind of numb. But, I have emerged with a very strong sense of all being right with the world, that suffering is inevitable. It isn't to be feared if you are loved - even by one person. When you don't have enough love for yourself, theirs will suffice. For me that was my mother. What I have also developed is a refusal to ask 'why me?' The question I now ask is 'why not me?' As human beings we are not as special as we would like to think we are. We are no more deserving that anybody else. Suffering and pain doesn't happen to us...it just happens, and there is nothing so meritorious within any one of us which makes us immune from life's horrible shit. I'm sorry to bore you, however I find it helps me to remember all of this when I get a BFN and I am tempted to wail 'it's not fucking fair!' Life isn't fair, and there are a plethora of women on this very thread who are testament to that.

I am sorry for all the typos - Little Ted is scampering across the keyboard and annoying the shit out of me.

Very good of you all to mention mental health,... and golden you explanation of self entitlement is right on the spot.
That was my father trigger to a lifelong batgle with depression
As a really large family , we have all sorts of degrees of mental health problems...and different from previous generations we are more willing to talk, hug , cry etc...and the idea of self entitlement to anything is always a topic...
Xxx

Notsoold, I am worried my post may have sounded glib to those on this thread who have known great pain; I am thinking particularly of Angelgeorgie and Mia'sMummy. The death of a child is horrific and I do not wish to negate anyone's experiences of suffering. So much of the terrible stuff in my life has been a direct result of the choices I have made. But suffering mentally is a whole barrel of misery. Moreover, I used to feel a very pronounced sense of shame that I had found myself in the darkest recesses of my mind and that I couldn't find a way out. I thank God for strong drugs and the intense therapy I received daily for the nine months I was in rehab. I feel very blessed.

I'd also like to clarify that when I said I 'mirrored some of my father's sexual deviance in later years', I did not mean I was a predator of women! Imeant that I became a prolific dogger and, for a short time during my decade as a stripper, I accepted money for sexual services. Where my head was in all this I have no idea, but I always experienced a huge thrill when indulging in risky sexual behaviours. I loved the power my body had over men and I do wonder if that was a result of the powerlessness and the shame I felt during my much-delayed puberty and a 'fuck you' two-fingered salute to my father.

Somewhere, I'm afraid I sniggered when you said you had accidentally posted your comment on another, unrelated thread! What a shame. I do wonder though...I'll bet your words will strike a chord with more than those of us on here.

golden thanks so much for the advice and I think you're incredibly brave to have come through what you have with such a wise head on your shoulders, I know what you mean about career meaning nothing next to having a baby, I put it off for years going through uni etc and trying to get into a job I actually looked forward to going into each day but to be honest it's all been for nothing, it hasn't got me through any doors so my opinion now is you don't always need a degree. I guess I still don't know what I really want to do (other than have a baby which is obviously my main concern at the moment lol) however I think you'll make a wonderful mother and I really hope it happens for you, if this last ivf hadn't worked it would have been the end of the road for me as I tried everything and luckily for me it did - still don't know what I'm going to do about all my debts (a lot of them incurred for fertility treatment) when i go on maternity leave but I'm trying not to worry about that for now! I've also been through the mill a bit the last few years, nothing like you I hasten to add but I had a particularly dark patch when I wanted to end it all but i thought of how my daughter would feel losing her mum and pulled myself together, and although at the time it's hard to see past the way youre feeling you somehow get through it and for me life is great now I guess life comes in cycles

Hi all again!!!
Golden I second you if what I said upsets anybody.
That is never my intention.

golden snigger away. wierdly consistent with my RL persona - always doing that kind of thing. making a tit of myself generally. no way i'm putting my picture up on mumsnet i so prize my anonymity on here. i can scoot around talking about my fertility on one thread, my mental health on another, my food obsessions on another, my weight fears on yet another. my sister wanted to know my nickname and i was like, NO WAY although if you search for 'nachos' you'll find me.

hope all is well with you lovely ladies.

v excited to hear diege is back in the game. wishing good luck to hopeful who has beautiful kids i can see why you want another one!

tina i like your theory that life comes in cycles and i'm glad you're doing so well now.

Morning all. I do love this thread,I love the honesty and the fact that no subject is off limits. It is refreshing and helps me feel sane.

Although I've not experienced half of what many of you have in terms of heartache, I have had a glimpse of it and do understand that things can and do get very dark and at times hopeless. It is true that having a sense of being loved makes all the difference.

I had PND after my first baby and went through the shittest time of my life.Just when it should have been sunshine and roses,a brand new healthy baby,loving husband etc,etc, I didn't want to get out of bed or face the world,or bond with the screaming little boy who belonged to me.But I didn't get help for a long time.I was so ashamed of my feelings that I wouldn't even admit to them. Eventually I saw a doctor and he told me to give up breastfeeding.Which I did, and miraculously I slowly started to feel better. I wish I hadn't felt there was a stigma attached to depression.I think it is so important that we talk about it now, that there isn't shame attached to it.

I also think that depression isn't something that will just disappear. I think a person has to work at feeling better,has to do whatever it takes,be it drugs,therapy,exercise,diet,whatever, to maintain well-being. I still feel it from time to time, especially whilst ttc. The black dog seems to visit me every month these days, but at least he doesn't hang around for too long.

Golden, you know me, queen of the early testers, so yes,I'm encouraging you to test at 11 dpo. If it is negative you can put it down to being too early

Nothing new to report here. The year eights are still doing my head in,and some days I just want to tell them all to "fuck off". Of course I am professionalism personified and I just tell them to "run along" instead. It doesn't help that my head of department (home economics) is tits on a bull when it comes to helping with discipline. She just doesn't support me, so I'll have to come up with a devious plan to get back at the nasty little bastards.Tomato (Tabasco) sauce with that boys?

Tina, I do not know how I have ended up wise (if that is indeed what I am ) when all my life I have thrown myself headlong into such very unwise decisions and behaviours. I have led such a chaotic life and my recovery this past two years has been just so placid and peaceful. I wept when you said I would make a good mum (I must stop weeping on here). Thank you for your kindness. I know that, for you, this donor egg IVF was the last chance saloon and I think it is just brilliant that it worked. How blessed you are! x

Gum, I just chortled at your wicked plot to poison your year eights. Such a tough age. Your PND sounded just dreadful and I shuddered to recognise that utter bleakness you describe. How and why did stopping breastfeeding help?
I will take your advice and test at 11DPO. Gum, I've been meaning to ask your opinion about something I read which has given me the heebie-jeebies. Is it true that a BFP which can only be detected after 11DPO will by and large be a vulnerable pregnancy? I can't recall where I read this but I seem to remember it being an authoritative source. It worries me. When I got my BFP in January it was at 13DPO (12DPO was negative) and that ended in mmc.

Can I also just add that I need help in remaining realistic about a BFP this month. I am driving myself crazy scouring fertility friend pregnancy charts of women over 40 on Clomid (there were sqillions [happy]) To bring myself back down to earth with a bump I scoured the non-pregnant charts of women over 40 on Clomid who shared the exact same intercourse pattern as me (there were squillions ). I've drawn up a list of reasons why I may just be blessed this month: 1) I am on Clomid!!! 2) I released two eggs!! 3) I had brilliantly timed sex and scored 'high' on the 'intercourse frequency monitor' on fertility friend 4) My body is now rid of the months-old infection from my decrepit tooth.
Here's my list of reason why a pregnancy this month is unlikely: 1) It's been nine months since I was pregnant so why the fuck should I get lucky this month? 2) I was x-rayed to within an inch of my life during my fertile window 3) I was on antibiotics for five days up to and including the day I ovulated 4) I have been pregnant twice in my life and both times I conceived around Christmas: 24th Dec (later aborted) and 16th January (mmc). I probably have an inability to conceive from February to November. Please help. I think I am having another breakdown.

...I am joking about the breakdown but not about needing help.

Golden I feel your anxiety from here, bless.
A couple of days ago you wrote something which stuck in my head.... not "why me?" but instead "why not me?" . And this is where that philosophy is so very important. You stand such a good chance this month, I've got everything crossed for you.
As for me...well I've decided to do 7 days on Provera so last day tomorrow. I'm not sure the consultant prescribed it quite right. When I looked into on our webase at work I could only see it prscribed as 10mg daily for 5-10 days to bring on a period. So the 20mg daily for 15 days seemed a little ott to me. I stuck with the 20mg but decided on 7 days to see what occured. I still think its very hit and miss that I will be lucky enough to ovulate in those few days he comes home in November, and infact he told me last night that his brother (back from Afghanistan on Sunday) will be staying with us too, so timing sex wont be too easy.
Just a funny note......we have both been taking the wellwoman/man conception tablets for the last few months. He had his medical yesterday and told the Dr that the tablets were contraception tablets not conception tablets. What a div!!! Phone calls are awkward though...he is in a room full of "lads" and is not allowed outside to make a phonecall.....the conversation is a little stilted.
I'm determined to get through this with him but cant deny its taking its toll this week.

Ah, Calibee, thanks for reminding me of that and of course you are right..I have no reason to not apply that philosophy here.

Can you explain more how you plan to utilise the Provera and Clomid to your advantage? I don't think I understand properly how Provera works. Oh! The irony of your OH speaking of his 'contraception tablets'! I'm sorry your filthy phone sex is being thwarted by his dormitory pals. Could he maybe put you on loudspeaker and let everybody join in?

Morning Ahh Golden you are going to explode with all your worries and questionnings, but I do know where you're coming from and would probably have done a sneaky test by now myself, so admire your strength. I think I might be able to shed some light on the 'late bfp = non-viable pregnancy' thing you read. It seems to link up with the info' I've read (from several sources) that says late implantation (after day 11) results in fewer successful pregnancies. Hence late implantation equals late rising hcg and later bfp. So a bfp after 11dpo doesn't in and of itself indicate a possible problem, as ovulation of course could be later and as such implantation actually the usual 7-10 days post-ov. Even then (at post 11 days), there were some viable pregnancies in the study. In my own experience my 1 mc gave an early bfp, the others were later (and the lines fainter too). Of course the sensible thing for you to do would be to wait until 15dpo and then test, not having the anxiety then of knowing if your bfp was 'just' there, or had been hanging around for a week or so...

calibee tough times for you too, though I did giggle at contraceptive tablets (bromide??) . What did the dr. say??

Gum Interesting that point about depression and bf. I had pnd with dd2 and also felt very much better when I stopped bf. I figured it was to do in part with drop in hormones post-bf, but probably more significantly, the decreased pressure on me to feed constantly, day and night, as I was not really enjoying it and I also felt guilty about not giving dd1 (only 16mths) much attention. I also went back to work at the same time which made me feel more human, so who knows what made it go away. I've never felt so poorly in my life, such a horrible feeling, and thankfully have never had it before or since. Dh on the other hand has horrible bouts of depression and I'll admit that I don't always handle it very well. I do feel resentful that I have to do absolutely everything with the dcs, the house, and also working long hrs while he just goes back to bed for hrs at a time. I know that that's wrong though and that it's a proper illness, so do try and empathise, but I do feel like giving him a shake at times.. Any tips? Oh, sex always works I should add
Right, better get on with stuff. Am 'working from home' which translates today as putting a lecture online and then getting on with painting ds1's bedroom ceiling...

Well that was easy! I've just got the paper work from my gp for day 3 and day 21 tests. Now I just have to get myself to hospital for the blood tests on the right days. Because I've been having shortish cycles and late ov working out when to go for '21' day test could be tricky. I'm on day 15 of current cycle and no sign yet of ov. I may wait till next month to give all these dropped bf a chance of normalisingccycles. Anyway I think all cancel my appointment with Lister clinic and save my money. These tests are all I wanted from them

Oops typing on tiny phone.

Thats good news remnant.....
golden The provera is used in 2 ways really....one purely to normalise a long cycle. This is when it is taken from day 15. Apparently within a couple of cycles the body will take over. The other use is to bring on af as and when needed...like with me. So I can calculate when OH is home and assuming I bleed within the suggested 2-7 days of cessation of provera and then ovulate around day 14 (give or take a few days) after taking the Clomid, I can time ovulation. I think the first run may be a bit of a practice one and I have to book a scan around cd14 to check my reaction to the Clomid dose (I guess this is the same thing you had). I've just heard that they are timing the midcourse break with the Christmas holidays and he should get 2 weeks off, so fingers crossed.
I confess to feeling all sorts of ups and downs over the last few days. Dare I say I have even let it cross my mind that I'm really not cut out to be an Army wag and should I set him free.........of course thats probably being over dramatic and just my totally immature selfish reaction to being left home alone. I have that nervous pit in my stomach though and have spent today quietly funing with him for being online on the "whatsap" application at 8:17am and not even bothering to send me a message. I feel about 15. Pooo Poooo Pooooo

diege we didnt finish the conversation to find out what the Dr said....it was one of those "gotta go".....beeeeep calls.

Morning ladies.
Nothing to report, but just wanted to send love to Calibee and Golden.

Cali, I totally understand your feelings. It must be very hard having your partner away,and to top it off, trying to conceive,which is stressful at the best of times, it would be doubly stressful with an absent partner, trying to get timing right and also having the bonus of being over 40. However, I think you'll get there eventually.

Golden, I know you don't want to pop all your eggs (pardon the pun) in this one basket - the first month on clomid, but I know I would be feeling hopeful myself,and the prospect of getting a bfn would having me bricking it. How many DPO are you now? Like Deige, if I was anywhere past 9 dpo,I would have tested by now. As for the thing about a bfp after 11 dpo, I've heard of many women getting late bfp's and they delivered healthy babies. And with my miscarriages I had bfp's at 9 and 10 dpo. If implantation doesn't happen til 9 or 10 dpo it is unlikely you'll get a bfp til 2 days later. I've got everything crossed for you.It would be so lovely if you get your bfp this time.

Right now I am back at the "feeling philosophical" stage. It's post AF, my hormones seem even,and I realise that getting pregnant at this ripe old age is highly unlikely,so I think,it would be nice, it is possible, and why not me? But if it doesn't happen, life will go on, I have a beautiful family and I'll be alright. It's the 2ww and the pre AF days that has my attitude do a 360 degree turn and makes me crazy and sad. If only we could do this thing without the rollercoaster of hormones and emotions.

Wow, time flies when I am on mumsnet,and it is that time of the day when I have to rush around getting myself and everyone ready for school/work...would rather have one of these

I can't keep up with you gorgeous lot (saw some of your pics from the other day). You are faaaaaaar to chatty for me to keep up with! Gum I saw your msg re supps. Will post the link tomorrow if I can. Remind me if I don't. Brain like a sieve these days. Just off to bed, before baby FF wakes up properly. Big rain/thunderstom on t he way apparently. Hope to sleep through it.

Love to all. FF xx

Gum & Diege, thanks for your input re late BFPs.

Remnant, you sound more buoyant - well done for asking for help.

Calibee, I believe these early stages of estrangement from your OH will bring all kinds of mixed emotions. I wouldn't be surprised if you felt lonely, abandoned, paranoid, resentful and even a little pissed off. However...are you loved by him? Of course you are. But if you feel any of his behaviour is insensitive, tell him. He needs to understand your vulnerability at this time. You don't have to consider yourself a WAG. Lots of women have partners who work far away from the family for long periods at a time. It's early days. Give yourself a break x

Gum, I have had a bad day today (8DPO). I am utterly convinced I am not pregnant. DP is so shattered from running his marathon on Sunday that, ever since, he has come home from work, shovelled food down his gob and gone to bed. His job is terrifically tiring at the best of times so I do not resent his fatigue and early nights. However, before he retired tonight I told him that I am going to need his help 'at the weekend and beyond' when I get a BFN and then AF. He looked a bit like this: so I explained that, despite my insistence that this first cycle of Clomid would find me remaining realistic and cool I am, in fact, (to quote you, Gum) bricking it.

I cannot stand to hear other people's symptom spotting (such a waste of time when it's probably just wind) but I have not been able to keep my eyes open all day. I have napped and napped and napped. But I do not have tingly, achy, heavy, sore, swollen, tender breasts. I do not have twinges/cramping/bloating/fucking anything which might signal a pregnancy. I am afraid of the next few days. How pathetic is that? Thank goodness I am staying at my darling mother's at the weekend.