Fantastic 40+ Thread - Part Eight.

[goldengirl71]

"Come on ovaries! Let's get this party started, yeah?"

Golden, as you know I'm not new to ttc, having been doing it since 2007(and had one live birth and 3 mcs in that time), and in that time have researched almost everything. I read your article,and I've read many,many ivf websites.Women my age are advised to have donor eggs. They don't give women my age, with FSH over 10 (mine is 11) and a super low AMH (under 1) treatment with drugs unless they are doing ivf with donor eggs. When I said I didn't want the testing done, it is because I've already had it done.There's no point in repeating the tests. I've had the progesterone test done about 3 or 4 times, each time it was high enough to suggest I had ovulated.

As for alternative treatments - you have made your views very clear on them,but not everyone feels the same way. I love alternative medicine,and have been having acupuncture for years, I get treatment from naturopaths and chiropractors and believe in the power of nutrition. Yes, Vitex is a herbal medicine, but proven to be a powerful one(it is agnus castus,Deige). And DHEA is also an alternative supplement, but it is used as part of the ivf protocols in the U.S. to improve egg quality. I actually don't like drugs very much and steer clear as much as possible. They are indeed powerful, but that worries me, because the balance of our bodies can so easily be put out.

So, I'll stick to the natural alternatives because I just don't think drugs will help all that much at my age.I will turn 46 in two weeks. The chances of falling pregnant are slight, but they are there and I still hold out hope.I might be desperate, but as I said, I can't have ivf, so I don't think there's any point in taking drugs in my situation. Perhaps if I was still 41 I would consider it.

Deige, so pleased to hear you will be ttc with us. Thanks for the bistro, comfort food is the go.

Golden, cassata (perhaps spelt casatta?) is an Italian dessert made of layers of icecream. Very delicious and my DH's favourite.

Calibee, I've no idea how you would organise to take provera, but I think it is to bring on your period? So I suppose it is so you can line up ovulation to happen when DP is home - which is great. I hope it works out perfectly for you.

Busy day today, pretty sure AF will arrive amongst it all. Must go to the farmer's market and start the baking. Having drinks this arvo with friends, so that will be nice. Starving, so off to cook breakfast

Hello again. I'm still more of a lurker but was greatly cheered by hearing from Triple. I too am scared to have tests because I am afraid of the results.

When I dropped DD off at school in the week I passed a 4 x 4 with a number plate that said "Baby 46" I walked along trying to work out if it was their 46 baby of if they were 46 when they had him/her! Hope it was the latter! Of course it may mean something completely different! Also been reading the book "call the midwife" and there were some mums that conceived naturally mentioned in the book (no drugs and stuff then!) 40, 46 (with rickets poor lady) and 44. No doubt there were many more.

I have a docs appt Monday. Bit unsure as am currently in Australia and not entirely got my head around the medicare system (i will most definately have to pay) but thought would enquire about clomid and things.

Hope everyone has a good weekend. (smile)

Morning! Good to hear from you wylie, and best of luck for the GP appointment
HI Gum!!! I agree that you have certainly 'been there done that' with the fertility drugs. Now that I know for sure that vitex is agnus castus, I can add that it also worked for me in the sense that my LP lenthened out and I did conceive dc5 within 6 mths of taking it. Of course, it might have happened anyway, but there is lots of evidence to say it does indeed have a regulatory effect on hormones (and indeed sends peoples cycles crazy if they have a regular one in the first place). That reminds me that I must get some vits in stock this afternoon. Dh has been away with work since wednesday, back yesterday to announce he was out with the friend from uni' (fine) and staying over at his house (not so fine - the thought of my sat lie in has been getting me through). I am therefore taling the day off and heading into town when he gets back to have a good look around the charity shops (new hobby) and will stay out until I feel like it
Glad the bistro was enjoyed - I am thinking take away, though I still have half a stone to lose since birth of dc5 which I really should address. BMI is normal, but you know when those jeans start leaving red marks at the end of the day???
Oh and dc5 (ds2) is 1 tomorrow!!! Where has that year gone?? Must try and post a photo on profile of him tomorrow.
Love to all xxx

Wylie I read that one...plus a couple of others by the same author. I remember thinking the same as I read it.
golden thanks for having a look at that for me. I'm not sure she really wanted me to take it from a certain day....more a day of my own choosing, like hopeful said to bring on af to line up ovulation with when OH comes home. So basically that would mean starting now (on cd6) to hopefully expect period in 1-2 weeks followed by ovulation at the end of OH's first long weekend home just over half way through November. Really though even OH said he was trying to press my leg as he could feel me getting bolshy with her...he said it sounded like I was the Dr and she was the patient lol. I guess thats the trouble with being in medicine myself.
Hopeful mmmm cassata...my Grandparents were from Scicily, I remember that one from my childhood. Just wanted to say that I also tried DHEA, it is ,even as a natural product, a fairly potent one and need to be taken with some caution. If you do decide to use it perhaps try to get the micronised variety, its called Keto 7. It may be coincidence but the first month I took it was the first of my ultra long cycles followed by another one which ended on Monday.....suffice to say I have now stopped . I would love to look more into alternative/complimentary therapies ...my trouble is patience, or should I say lack of it and sadly alternative medicines and therapies generally take a fait amount of time to show results and I guess time is on nobodies side on this thread.
I should just say I'm a specialised Medicines Management Pharmacy Technician...the specialised bit was Mental Health (I'm doing a lot of work with soldiers suffering from PTSE just now...infact I met OH whilst working with his older brother who is a PT instructor with the Army and working with soldiers currently recovering from injuries...just a little bit of my story) so although I have great access to information about medications, I'm really not very "up" on physical medications nowadays.
Anyway....I'm off back to bed in a minute for a final snuggle with my man before taking the 3 and a half hour drive up to Catterick for the night and saying goodbye to him tomorrow. I do hope I don't make a complete and utter fool of myself by blubbing and wailing at any point infront of all the young wives and girlfriends. Now that just wouldnt do atall!!!

golden I suppose if I had been Mr&Mrs Happily Married Couple I may have gone for tests but I wasn't in that situation. As for people living with false hope every month when tests could reveal the truth, I feel tests can dash peoples' hopes if the results are poor when infact they may still have a chance of conceiving.

gum you mention nutrition, I made up some muesli with a base of organic oats, mixed in 3 types of seeds, 3 types of dried fruits, 3 types of nuts, and would have it every morning with natural yogurt and berries (bag of frozen mixed, took some out every night for morning). Don't know if it helped or not, but it didn't do any harm. I continued to have it when I was pregnant too. Infact I'm not sure why I stopped!

Hope the weekend goes ok Calibee - must be difficult xx Btw, I may be picking your brains at some point as I am supervising a few dissertations about therapies for PTST following combat (from a social work perspective) and aren't that clued up at all. Your job sounds fascinating btw.
Triple, that breakfast sounds lovely. I add some sunflower and pumpkin seeds to my weetabix and do notice a difference in my energy levels if I run out of supplies. Regardless of what it does, there's certainly enough evidence that it has good effects on general health

First of all I'd like to say I am not coming on here to bring people down or raise any hackles. I just feel very sad that there are not many women on here who are actually having babies - and those that have had them were largely under the age of 42. It breaks my heart that there are far more women coming through this thread who aren't having babies - and I for one am beginning to feel rather desperate. The fertility consultant told me that, over the age of 40, five out of six of our eggs are too shit to make a baby. For a woman in her twenties, that figure is one in eight. He told me that nothing can improve the quality of a woman's eggs. This is why I do not believe in the likes of DHEA.

You are right, Gum, I have very strong opinions on alternative therapies. I believe it is a cynical industry preying on the 21st Century woman who wants it all; who is tired, stressed, fearful and willing to try anything to have a baby. I've read on this and other threads of women who have been promised the earth by their acupunturist: massaged ovaries, lengthened luteal phases, easier labours - all utter bullshit. These industries make a hell of a lot of money out of women like us and I will not be a part of it. I'd rather my money went to the drug companies who will one day, hopefully, come up with a pill which improves egg quality.

I absolutely was not suggesting IVF, Gum, as I know that isn't an option for you. I was pointing you to the bit in the article about how Clomid works with the ovarian 'pyramid' of eggs, encouraging more than one to develop and hence raising the chances of at least one not being shit. This made sense to me and I'm not prepared to wait years for a decent egg. I'm hoping the Clomid will continue to throw up several. The article points out clearly that nothing can be done to improve egg quality and so I wanted to give you hope that Clomid could work for you in terms of the 'egg pyramid' system.

Triple, we will have to agree to disagree on the subject of tests. For me, knowledge is power. I have been charting now for nine months and every month has shown a sustained shift in temperature, leading me to believe, naturally, that I am ovulating evry month. Not so. My day 22 progesterone score showed I hadn't ovulated. I was horrified and even more horrified to learn DP's sperm wasn't perfect. Knowing that charting had deluded me was difficult to accept, but I believe the progesterone results more than I do fertility friend.

I am sorry that my posts have annoyed. I talk alot, I know. I have far too much time on my hands these days and that, coupled with the fact that I see you all as my friends, makes me over-zealous sometimes in my throwing-of-suggestions into the ring. I probably come across as an imperious know-it-all. I hope not, but I suspect I do. I am sorry if this is the case. I really empathise with absolutely everyone on here and in particular you, Gum, whose aching for that final baby just throbs from these pages. I want all of us to have our dreams realised, that's all.

Calibee, my thoughts are with you today, love x

[waves at Somewherebeginningtherain]

Awww Golden I for one love your bluntness....except when it is aimed at me of course [hgrin]. You have knowledge on your side and a fine grasp of the English language. I know what you mean by I have come to see you all as friends on here as I have too. We may pop back at you at times...as all friends do but please do not stop being you xxxx

Diege fire away anytime with brain picking. I will do my best to answer. If you get chance have a look at the Combat Stress website...I work with these guys a lot.

Calibee, your post just made me cry. Please don't do that again [hwink]

golden as you will understand ....
Despite my optimism of last night... It was an unmitigated disaster. DP had my legs spread wider than an Olympic gymnast.,so I kindly whispered not so wide. He then drooped. Blamed me and that was fkn that. Tried not to cry as I have probably now missed my chance. Barely slept all night thinking of the bloody useless Viagra ,our dealing years and having only a couple of days each month to conceive.

This morning he promised to try stain tonight but I fear it will be too late by then. Sorry it's all me but as you all know having to wait another whole month with no guarantees that he can rise to the occasion then is just the fkn pits.

Hi to calibee and diege irish and gum wylie and triple.

I feel positively seething instead of positively pregnant. Poor DP x

Bloody predictive text..declining years , try again tonight.

Will post again later as lasagne nearly ready to come out of oven, but just wanted to say pink that the cycle where I was charting and conceived we dtd the day before and after ovulation but not the actual ovulation day.(And one of those was a quickie before I went to work so I got up straight away,no time for any legs in the air etc!).
Also if you got your smiley yesterday then might you not ovulate today,in which case tonight is spot on?
I'd say just relax and go for it this evening anyway!
x

Thanks irish. We managed to spontaneously Dtd this afternoon. Hooray! The opk pack says you to Dtd anytime in the48 hours after the smiley

. Last month we Dtd the morning we got the smiley so at least it'll be a different choice this month. Who knows? Hard to be positive at my age [hsad] though I know I have much to be grateful for reading stories from other ladies in this thread

Pink, sex today was brilliant timing if you got your smiley yesterday morning. I'm sorry you had a rough time of it last night DTD - I feel your pain, sister. But...today just proves that all we need is to have the confidence to just give it another go if the Viagra fails. Didn't you also DTD on Wednesday? You're in with a great chance! [hgrin] x

golden I found that article about Clomid very interesting. I assume I'm ovulating(or have been) as I've got pregnant several times but egg quality could be an issue for me so I wonder if Clomid would increase my chances of getting a good one if more eggs were released. Are you having your treatment privately or on the NHS? My GP certainly wasn't encouraging about a referral for any investigation for recurrent miscarriage but it might be worth talking to her again or considering a private referral to see a specialist. The other thing is though that I don't think DH would be keen on assisted fertility treatment, he's of a mind that if it's meant to happen it will. He doesn't even like to think about charting or timing etc. I suppose I do enough thinking and obsessing for both of us!
You know you mentioned Fertility Friend was inaccurately indicating you'd ovulated? I've been putting my temps from my Duofertility monitor on FF and the last two cycles each has given a different ovulation day, just out by a day, but when I put on the cycle where I'd conceived(so I know Duo was right) FF was out by 5 days! So I think these things are useful as a tool, but still open to interpretation.

Diege happy first birthday Samuel xxxx where has that year gone? Hi all xxx

Calibee thinking of you this weekend, I'm sure it will be an emotional farewell but just think about the reunion you'll have on his first weekend off!

Diege have a good day tomorrow on ds's birthday, is he having a party?
My dd2 is 9 in a month(exactly a month today as she reminded me at 6.30am this morning,she getting excited already!).She planning her birthday party in great detail!

pink ,you can relax now, you've timed things to perfection!

Hope everyone else is having a good weekend.

Irish, egg quality could be an issue for me so I wonder if Clomid would increase my chances of getting a good one if more eggs were released. Here is your answer: 'each woman has her own unique ovarian pyramid. When fertility drugs are used, we go deeper into the pyramid of activated eggs. That is, we are able to supply more follicle stimulating hormone than a woman normally makes and rescue eggs that would otherwise have lost the competition for dominance in that month and would have undergone attrition'

This heartens me greatly, I have to say. I also like the feeling that I am not alone any more in that I am being assisted by the 'professionals', if you see what I mean. I am being helped by the NHS.

What horrified me about fertility friend was that, after treating their charting process as a sacred cow for so long, they have proved to be wrong in my case. That sustained shift in temp I saw was - for at least one of my cycles - a false representation of ovulation. I shudder to think how many other cycles I was given false hope.

How was the lasagne irish? It is dds 13 th birthday on nov 5 th and all she wants, bless her is one direction bed covers!

golden I have a really good feeling about you this month. I don't think professionals would give you false hope and she was certainly positive re your chances.

diege happy birthday to the little fella for tomorrow!

Does when you take your first period have any bearing on anything fertility wise?just asking as I didn't start until I was 15 [ she asks desperately] .

I'm guessing not as I haven't heard anyone mention it and I suppose the eggs are there from birth.

Hope everyone is enjoying their Saturday night.! Don't forget your extra hours lie in tomorrow[ not for me as getting up with ds of 20 mths] but don't mind x

The lasagne turned out well thank you pink and it was followed by chocolate fudge brownies made by DD2, mmmm.......
She's 13 too and also a One Direction fan.

I've wondered too, if the age you start your periods could affect how many eggs you have left when you're older. Also,if you don't ovulate when you're breastfeeding does that mean you have a greater egg reserve left? (I figured out I've spent a total of about 4 years breastfeeding my three).

I don't think I'll be getting a lie in tomorrow either, our geriatric (15y!) labrador has taken to barking to be let out between 5 and 6 am and I can never get back to sleep once I've been up and outside. Tomorrow that will be about 4 or 5 am, eek!

golden I think I should perhaps arm myself with a print out of that article and visit my GP!

Irish and Pink, I used to wonder that too, and thought because I'd spent years pregnant and breastfeeding (and hence, not ovulating) I'd still have a great vat full of eggs, but alas, it isn't so.Apparently when we don't ovulate the eggs aren't stored for later, they just disappear.I know that isn't quite a scientific account, but that is gist of what I found out. Disappointing,I know. I think one thing that is supposed to have some bearing on our egg supply and quality is genetics, general health and when our own mother went through menopause. My genetics are pretty good, I have a grandmother and great grandmother who had babies in their 40's (but not as late as 46), my mother was about 50 when her periods stopped for good, but I know,health-wise I am in much better shape than my gran and my mum, so I am hoping that helps too. Unfortunately I used to smoke from about 18-24 years old and I know that can cause some damage. I wish now I hadn't, but I did.

Golden, I did like what that article said about "the pyramid" of eggs,and how clomid might just bring out some better ones, but I still feel reluctant. For every good thing I read about fertility drugs, I also read something negative so it is hard to make a balanced judgement. I'm still checking out the clomid on ebay,and I will talk to my GP when I have my next pap smear (in a few days).

What you said about DHEA:"He told me that nothing can improve the quality of a woman's eggs. This is why I do not believe in the likes of DHEA",I know you trust your consultant, but his is only one opinion. At the centre for human reproduction in the U.S, they have done trials and have used it with great benefits. You can read about it here if you like.

Deige, I can't believe that Samuel is one. Wow! Where did that year go? I hope you do post some pics, I'd love to see him.

Well, we had a lovely get together last night. I drank champagne and wine and felt happy, our friends are great fun,and one of them,is the only person in RL who knows and understands my struggles to have one last baby. She has two DC,s and conceived her last baby at 41, on the last month of ttc (her DH didn't want to continue). Now her DH thanks her for making him take the plunge because he only ever wanted one and found the first baby hard work (aren't they all). Her doctor told them that if they didn't want more children they would have to use contraception until she was 45 as there was a good chance of getting pregnant again, and after 45,he suggested that they get something permanent done if they didn't want more children. It is funny to hear that when we are consistently told that we have such a tiny chance of getting pregnant (unless of course you really don't want to[hconfused])BTW, I think she was ttc for about 12 months.

It is a beautiful sunny day,so I plan to take a really long walk on the beach and perhaps even a swim.

Just popping in to say hi, while I try and wind down a little from the coffee buzz I'm on. Remind me not to have caffeine after 1pm again!!

Happy Birthday Samuel! Delighted to hear Mummy's a fully paid up TTcer again. Atta girl Diege. Knew it was only a matter of time!

I like your story Gum about contraception in the over 40s. Gives us all hope. Sounds like you had a nice time with your friends. Sending you big un-mumsnetty hugs. I hope you get that BFP soon.

I haven't been able to catch up properly on everyone's news, but I do want to stick up for alternative therapies and supplements etc. Worked for me, and am more than happy to send links to anyone who's interested. The real rip-off is the price of fertility treatments, in particular IVF. Lord Winston had some press coverage on it at the beginning of the year, and it confirmed my suspicions that the prices are artificially high. The NHS must make millions on it every year. I hope I never have to go through it again.

I am looking forward to joining you all properly again soon. Good to know you can TTC with more limited BF. Love BFing DS. Even though he has teeth!! (He could have waited - why did my baby have to get them at 16 weeks!)

Finally nodding off. Sweet dreams all! FF xx

Hi there, just wanted to add some encouragement to everyone over 40. I had my one and only PFB 8 years ago..when I was 42, having finally met the right man when I was 40. My work colleague has had 2 DCs both since she turned 40