TTC Super Ovulation part 3

[Arianrhod]

Hey ladies -

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

part 1 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1385998-TTC-Super-Ovulation

Part 2 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1475108-TTC-Super-Ovulation-part-2?pg=1

Ahhh I see what u mean brown perhaps that's a good point ! I'll check

... Just been having a Googling-random-fertility-articles-in-journals afternoon, as everyone's out! I think I must get myself some phytoestrogens. What kind are people taking and how much?
I'm vegan and already eat tonnes of soya; in fact before reading those articles I was thinking of giving it up for a bit, having read lots of contradictory reports about its effect on fertility. I wonder if the secret is, as in the studies, only to take it after ovulation, whereas maybe continuous consumption leads to the opposite effect.

Another evaporation line, another 10mg pred. 10mg is fine, I think, side effects-wise, so far. Though how it will combine with DHEA to make a mega moustache, I'm not sure.

pebbles and holl have you tested today? Xx

Duggs, what kind and what strength of phytoestrogens were you taking? and at what point in the cycle?

Hi ladies -

pebbles and holl, any news for us?

brown Can I ask why you feel you need phytoestrogens? Do you mean like soy isoflavones (which appears to mimic the effects of clomid)? Certainly having taken it last cycle, albeit I had little chance of getting pg due to OH being away at the critical time, I had no appreciable side effects so would definitely consider taking them again short-term if I weren't doing SO.

Agnus castus - I have always taken 2 x 500mg capsules until I stopped taking them this last cycle (when researching soy isoflavones made me realise AC works against SO fertility meds, including soy isoflavones). I know what you mean about the EU ruling affecting herbal supplements, but fortunately the supplier I used was ok until very recently and even after that I found another, so I have lots sitting in the cupboard not being taken right now!

duggs how are you doing? I know my memory is pretty rubbish but aren't you/weren't you due to be testing?

choccy You're def. not an interloper, you're a very helpful source of knowledge and of course always welcome here :) I think I'm right in that we're all still pretty much TTC here whereas it feels like almost everyone on the Pred thread is pregnant; while I am honestly so pleased for them all for me personally it does feel like this is more of a 'home' right now.

belly How are you doing now? I know you won't be feeling good, but hopefully you are doing ok?

So, saw Mr S for my follie scan this morning, wondering whether not taking AC this cycle will have had a difference. I had 2 follies 25mm and 22mm on one side, and one 14mm on the other, with lining at 8.3mm. The smaller follie is too small to be much use, but Mr S seemed happy and thinks this is the best I've responded on SO. However, it has occurred to me - is this right? This is the latest in my cycle I've ever seen him - I usually ovulate naturally CD14 and today is CD13, I usually see him CD11 or even sometimes CD10. Looking back through my records my follies have been 19mm/16mm/10mm on CD11 before (and similar on another cycle) - well don't follies grow between 1-3mm per day? So wouldn't that be about right anyway? Seems like my response this cycle is pretty much like other cycles, surely? Not that I'll care if it works, obviously!!, but it also means the results of my experiment with not taking the AC is still uncertain too. I'll continue with not taking it for now, I think, since it definitely is known to have a hormonal balancing effect and with the SO meds they actively influence hormones so I can see why you wouldn't want to be taking both together. As I've said before - who knows?!

/waves to lemon, mel and anyone else that I've missed!

Sorry, brown I meant to say, if it's of any interest - the soy isoflavones I took last cycle, I took CD3-7 50mg/100mg/150mg/200mg/200mg - I was going for a better quality of eggs rather than a greater quantity, hence why CD3-7.

Ah, no I was thinking of taking it for a different reason, improved implantation.
Although this is in IVF, I thought it couldn't hurt to try it in a natural cycle.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15589851
www.fertilityneighborhood.com/content/in_the_news/archive_1126.aspx
I must admit it does sound like your latest cycle seems similar to your others. I noticed once before that Mr S hadn't factored in the cycle day when he told me something about my follicles, but I can't remember what that was now.

I haven't bothered testing again as seem to having af but is bit of a wtf cycle. I have just generally had some brown spotting that is really bitty
(not sure how else to explain it!) and then early yesterday when I went to the toilet I had a blob that came out that was really kind of tissuey. Sorry for the details!!

Brown hope you dont mind me asking why do you think it is still an evaporation line if you have had a positive test twice?

Also can I ask what phytoestrogens are?

Ari good result on your follies although I agree that seeing as you have gone later in the month then they would be around the same size as usual.

Is weird not being straight back on super ov treatment this month as that has become the norm! Will be nice taking a break from the steroids though!

Waves to everyone else.

Sorry, that should be:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15589851
www.fertilityneighborhood.com/content/in_the_news/archive_1126.aspx
The second one is quite good at explaining the possible mechanism by which they work. Although how the ' competition' theory would work with ripening follicles, I'm not sure. You would have thought they would need the direct effects of oestrodial, but what do I know?

Pebbles, that does sound a strange AF. Wouldn't it be full on by now? Maybe there's still hope?
My 'positive test' is really only a very faint grey line, only observable by the truly obsessed, namely me. I've had them before and they never lead to anything. :(

Hi all thanks for the interest.
Have tested again and it is darker but I am getti b a lot of cramps ( not normally a crampy person) so hoping its judg further implantation not my AF coming.
Pebbles - sounds a bit weird? Sure it's not implantation?
Brown - good luck, yours sounds promising. Are you using IC or FRER? I found the IC were giving me funny lines at start.
Probably going to lay low for a bit, desperately trying to keep my sane head on and just get on with it without mentalling too much.

I will lurk and keep my fingers crossed for you guys x x

Hello, I don't post very much these days but thought I'd pop my head in to see how you're all doing.

I'm so sorry to hear about your mc BellyD.

Pebbles and HollDoll, both of your situations sound like they could well be implantation. When I got my BFP I had pinkish discharge and then a brief watery red, then brown bleed. I also had a lot of cramping which I then became convinced was AF coming to piss on my fireworks. I'm now nervously awaiting my anomaly scan on Friday so needless to say, she never showed up!

Ari, I understand why you don't visit the pred thread much. Actually, it seems like nobody does anymore! It's very quiet on there. I feel a bit homeless as the April Antenatal Club thread has been going for 4 months so I feel a bit weird just turning up on that, but it seems like there's nobody to speak to on the pred thread anymore!

holldoll I think that the cramping is a good thing and definitely combined with a darker line. Fingers crossed for you. Also holding out plenty of hope for Pebbles and Brownstag.

Ari your follie scan sounds promising. Know what you mean about being a few days later for your scan and the size difference. Did they give you the trigger shot at NLC?

Having Kittens good to hear from you and will be thinking of you on Friday. It is another big milestone but hopefully all will be ok and you will be officially halfway.

I am doing ok. Was very weepy yesterday as I thought the bleeding had started but seems to have stopped again today. On another odd note a friend of mine has been prescribed Pred for another health condition and she couldn't get it from the pharmacy today because apparently there is a new type that people have been reacting even more weirdly too. There was a doctors/pharmicists meeting today (not sure which) to decide whether to carry on prescribing the new version. Anyone else heard anything about this?

I did a test this evening just to be doubly sure was af and it is a definite negative. I guess the first two feint positives must have been down to the dodgy Sainsburys tests and af is just being weird this month.

Holl glad to hear your line is getting stronger and will keep everything crossed for you.

Brown I think we are all pretty obsessed when it comes to hpt's so you are in good company!

Great to hear from you Kittens and I wish you lots of luck for your scan. Let us know how you get on. Have you heard how Jaffa is getting on?

I hope things start to move on for you soon Belly.

I will probably be keeping a low profile as I will be off the ttc wagon now until January but will lurk to see how everyone is doing.

I'm sorry pebbles, that's rubbish. Enjoy your time off and have a relaxing break although I know how hard it is break from this merry go round.
Ari - it does sound very similar to your other cycles - good luck this one though.
Belly - thinking of you. It's a hard time but at least here we all understand.
Kittens - thanks for the info,I never normally get cramps soum hoping its a good sign but we will see. Hope your scan goes well.

I've emailed Louise to get more drugs but now feel like I've jinxed it. Mental
As I said earlier going to lurk for a bit but good luck to everyone

Holldoll, that sounds very exciting! Really sorry to hear that Pebbles. Mine was also negative today but I wasn't too hopeful. But it does get on my wick that evaporation lines always seem to appear 9 or 10dpo! Maybe I just don't peer so hard on the other days!
Pebbles, phytoestrogens are oestrogen-like substances contained in some plants, soya being a primary one, but also clover, flax, etc. Their effects are complex, because they can act as oestrogens, or block the effects of natural oestrogen.
There's been a debate about the effects of soya for years. Countries where they eat lots of it, like Japan, have lower rates of breast and prostate cancer, maybe because of soya consumption, yet others say genistein and daidzein (2 phytoestrogens) should be avoided in breast cancer. Some sources say they reduce fertility. But there are several studies showing they help, when used in certain ways, like the two I found.
Those two studies have one using it in the follicular phase, and one in the luteal phase. I also found another showing it thickened the endometrium when used in the follicular phase when using Clomid and may combat Clomid's antioestrogenic effects.
Not all the studies are using the same phytoestrogens, though.
ari, do you have any studies into the use of phytoestrogens as an aromatase inhibitor (days 3-7)? I had searched for this before but it seemed all anecdotal, just lots of fertility forum threads. Although the trick is to use the right key terms when looking at scholarly articles and maybe I'm not using them. The world opened up when I stopped searching for 'Clomid' and instead for 'Clomiphene'!

P.S. I get my AMH results this week. Terrified that it'll be dreadful and everything a waste of time.

BellyD, I've just emailed my chemist friend for the low-down on the dodgy pred!

Pebbles and Brownstag sorry to hear your news. A holiday sounds the perfect thing for you, Pebbles. Brownstag fingers crossed for your AMH. I never know what is more relevant, your fsh or your AMH? My fsh is usually rubbish but last time I had my AMH tested it was fairly ok for my age. Does that just mean I am getting pregnant with bad quality eggs? It will be interesting to know what your chemist friend says.

Hello to all the lurkers.

Right I've caught up. Sorry pebbles
I tested this morning BFN. Is 11 dpo for me today and I used first response early blaaa not even a shadow to mental over just stark white!! This is my 6th SO round. I'll chuck one more in for good luck in Dec before I head off to OZ. I'm not overally impressed with SO. It's rubbish I reckon for people who ovulate normally anyway - more follies doesn't mean anything -( someone tell me in wrong and throw some encouraging/amazing stats this way pls)

I used soy isoflavines way back when brown and reckon 2013 I might start again.

Duggs, sorry, I agree about SO. I suppose because I think it doesn't get to the root of the problem, and although I'm not sure what our problem is exactly, it isn't lack of ovulation. It also alters other things, so maybe it's a step away from conceiving, who knows? One thing I am sure of is that I can't afford any more. I thought Clomid and DHEA would be a cheaper alternative but I'm going back to mother nature from now on. I've also dropped my DHEA dosage as I can't put up with the beard of boils any longer. Wrinkles and acne are just an impossible combination.

And sorry to hear about the BFN. I didn't realise we were both 11dpo today.

Oh bugger! Sorry to hear of the BFNs . Pebbles, I really thought that was going to be good news this time. Damn.

Hi all .. Just a quickie as I'm supposed to be on a conf call at the mo (yawn) ... pebbles and duggs, sorry to hear of the BFNs, what a bugger :(

I do wonder about the benefit of SO for those who ovulate normally too duggs, the only thing I can think of that makes it worth while doing is that you may have more than one chance to get pregnant each month, ie 2 or more follies' worth of eggs. Having said that, even though I did technically get pregnant twice so far, doing SO it hasn't helped me worth a damn to actually get a baby, so still not sure about it. Guess it's my only real hope, given that I can't do IVF, so for now (although the cost is killing me) I have to keep going.

brown I sympathise about the DHEA. I have to say I was rather nervous that I wasn't monitored while taking it and always wondered whether I was doing more damage than good taking it. I think it would be excellent to take if you could be constantly monitored for DHEA-S levels, but I did 5 months of it and saw no difference in pregnancy levels so guess it wasn't for me.

brown I understood AMH to be a better judge of your levels of eggs than the standard LH/FSH/E2 tests, but even so I have read of ladies with apparently rubbish AMH levels still going on to get pregnant successfully, so who knows? I've never had my AMH tested, have thought about it loads of times but then thought it might be such a downer for me if it doesn't look good that it would probably tip me over the edge to give up. So I haven't bothered thus far.

I don't have any info on phytoestrogens, but I'm very interested in what you're finding out brown, keep us posted!

kittens Good to see you on here .. I do still read the pred thread every day, but I just can't contribute anything so taking something of a back seat on there. I'm so darned chuffed for all the ladies for whom this regime has worked so successfully, but given that it hasn't for me personally (yet), I can't really say anything helpful/useful on there at the moment. You can always have a home on here if you want one :)

holl Sounding really positive (if you'll excuse the unintended pun), lots of luck and fingers crossed it carries on being positive!!

belly Sorry to hear your body is taking its time about getting with the plan, is it worth having another acupuncture session? Did you ask your acupuncturist if he/she could explicitly trigger a miscarriage? That's what I did with mine, and boy did she! Very interested to hear about the pred, do you know what kind of 'weird' it was that people found they were experiencing on this other pred?

/waves to everyone