TTC for 10+ months, part 10

[princesschick]

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

Princess at the asset backed annuities. You will be our talisman at the meet. You may need to put up with us all surreptitiously stroking you in the hope that some of the magic rubs off

Buzzy hurrah for the fur baby! She sounds gorgeous. Personally i would rename her as you want. Our cat doesn't answer to anything. Mr A gave her a comedy name that technically is a boy's name which confuses the vet's receptionist no end. I had to patiently explain last time we went that the cat has no idea what its name is and doesn't care anyway. Like all cats, she probably refers to herself as God

Eleth lovely to see you, glad things are still OK for you.

Gin thanks for the info on pricing and appointments. I've just had a letter this morning with Gonal F prices that range from £500 for 150-225 dose to £1,100 for 450. I'm assuming that's per course not per day! My main stress now is trying to organise my diary so I don't book meetings when I might need to have scans or be off work after EC but that's virtually impossible. I am a planner, I do a lot of project management and it is just natural to me to think ahead, so having to deal with something that is completely out of my control is the major source of stress. Mr A is the complete opposite, he never plans for anything which is infuriating sometimes but with this is definitely the best way to deal with things.

Nelly good news on your scan. It certainly doesn't sound menopausal! Nobody has said anything to me about AMH, they may not do it here, I'm hoping they don't.

Critter thank you for the meditation links. I will start with some of the short ones and see how I get on. Hope the doc is helpful on Monday. Your list of pros and cons is a good way of thinking about it. FWIW as age is not an issue it probably won't make any difference to the outcome if you wait, and then you will have given the natural cycles a fair shot. Hugs - it's a difficult decision.

Joycep blimey you really are going to have a delightful week with both the lap and the surgery for your lump... I guess at least it will all be over with quickly. And you're right about seeing it as an opportunity. I am dragging my brain in that direction. When my aunt and uncle couldn't conceive in the 1970s there was no such thing as IVF available to them so I should see it an opportunity instead of a horrible scary thing that's being forced on me

Sarlat you've been very perceptive as usual. Thanks for the info on your appointments, it's a relief to hear you didn't have side effects. I'm waiting for the clinic to ring me back and am going to arrange a counselling appointment. At our open evening they said that ideally they would see everyone before they start IVF and Mr A actually suggested we both go. And you were right about my mum. She came over last night and we told her and she was brilliant. She wasn't fazed at all and just said go for it, and offered to lend us the money without me having to ask. So that's a huge relief. I have asked her not to tell anyone and I do believe that she will keep it to herself. Good luck with getting your consultant appointment. I can relate to feeling sombre. Some days like today I'm quite agitated trying to sort things out but others I just feel numb.

Akuaba we were put on the spot, but actually now I've made the decision I am starting to feel better. Sorry you've had a horrible mentalling cycle. But triplets would be hard work. I sympathise with being the booze police. Mr A has (mostly) stopped drinking but he hasn't stopped whingeing about it. I can easily imagine drinking wine at Christmas, but the possibility that I might be pregnant by then just blows my mind.

Right, I'd best go get on with some of that work I've got to do in between mentalling about IVF. It does feel like mentalling is now my job and the stuff I get paid for just has to fit around it . Waves and tail feather shakes to everyone.

Coco I completely understand the need to take a break. Non-ttc time with Mr C sounds like a good idea. We will be here for you any time you want to pop in

I totally understand the need for a break coco. I've tried but I always end up reading again and then finding something I want to post about, this thread is such a good outlet for me. I do miss people when they leave the thread though, and I do hope those who do take a break from us might come back to update now and again.

Buzzy, how exciting about the new fur baby, my cat is the love of my life (after dh of course). She doesn't know her proper name either Artemis because I call her things like, baby, princess, mummy's little darling etc. she's currently sulking because it's raining and she does not do rain. I think she thinks I have control over the weather.

This thread s fast becoming an ivf thread. It's so exciting but of course scary too. At least we can hold each others hands. Who else will be doing it in December? I like the idea of having a cycle buddy. I wish my cycles were more predictable so I could know exactly the date I'll start.

Gin, what's the difference between short protocol and mild? My dr is f the view that short is nearly always better for the woman and the outcome than long. He did say they won't make the final decision until the scan though. Does anyone know what on the scan would determine whether to go for long or short? I really hope I get to do short, I don't like the idea of downregging.

Joy, is it ok to have two ops so close together? I guess do, but it seems a hard thing to put your body through.

Mrsd interesting about the decision made at scan, I don't know the answer to your question. When does this scan take place (cycle-wise) and before any medical intervention?

Artemis good to hear you are dealing with whingeing in the main, I could deal with that better than faulty memory and denial. We are fine at home without guests, no whingeing even. Social occasions let alone holiday with boozy relatives not so much so. He thinks he is doing really well and I must admit he is trying. I said to him 'at least people won't think you are pregnant', with 24 hours I hear my mother (I was in another room, I assume he had turned down a drink) "are you pregnant?" FFS

Mrsd ? this thread is becoming an ivf thread. It?s quite weird considering some of us have been on here well over a year and when we still had some hope that it would happen naturally. For me i kind of suspected it would end up here although i was hoping it was just my negative chimp at work. Anyway, it?s quite nice that we all ?know? each other so well now and are going down this route at similar times. I think the 2nd op should be fine. It will be with a local and it?s going to be in the evening and i desperately hope it will just be a quick whip out and then sewn up. they wanted it to do it the day after my lap but luckily they moved to a week later.

Art ? at chimp shackles. I?m really pleased you got to tell your mum last night and she was supportive. It?s probably best to get some of this off your shoulders. Now gonalF , I think Buzzy found some good prices somewhere. I was charged £450 for a gonal F pen. When she upped the dose, i had to buy 2 pens. I now find out that i should have been paying about £100 for these pens. I don?t know whether your quote is for the same kind of pens as i had but that sounds like a heck of a lot of money. These frigging things probably cost these company pounds. The mark up is disgusting. Anyway, best to shop around. Buzzy has some details if i remember rightly.

Critter ? love that link you put in yesterday. Frantic world. I am going to work on mindfulness meditation. I tried it this morning and i cannot concentrate on one thing ? my mind drifted from dinner tonight to what happens when we die . It?s odd suddenly being aware of the millions of thoughts that passes through the brain. Will continue to work on it!

Coco ? totally understand the need to take a break from MN> I sometimes wonder whether it adds to the mentalling .

Sar ? i am pleased you are busy at work which hopefully is keeping your mind off things. There are so many emotions with all this from depression to anger to sadness. It really is an exhausting cycle just going round and round. One day though we will be off this sausage factory wheel as opposed to going round and round. And you are totally right, it ?s so much better to get things over and done with all at once.

Buzzy- hurrah at yourfur baby. She sounds lovely.

I'm supposed to have the scan between days 25 and 28 based on the fact my cycle is between 30 and 35 days, so it must have to be done 5 ish days before af. I have to have this immediately before the cycle, I'd start injecting on cd 1.

Mrsden AFAIK short protocol is often better for older women or where you have previously had a poor response to the drugs. I agree I don't like the sound of downregging. I don't know what on the scan would be the indicator though - i won't even have had a scan other than the baseline one back in January by the time they start me off. I assume they will take your bloods into account particularly the LH/FSH levels.

It's interesting your dr says short protocol is better than long. The info I've been given has virtually nothing about short protocol. It seems I'll be doing long protocol simply because that's just what they do, and I'm not happy that I haven't had chance to discuss options - given my age I would have thought short protocol ought to be an option. I spoke to the nurse today to clarify what's happening next week. It sounds like I might actually be starting on the drugs next Friday (eek) if the scan indicates I've ovulated. However she couldn't confirm that I would actually get to see the consultant beforehand to find out what levels of drugs he is recommending and why. She said she would 'get them to do a sheet' to tell her the levels of the drugs I need. I am really unimpressed about the lack of discussion and if I'm still not happy on Tuesday I won't be going ahead.

I would be interested to hear from those of you who have been through it about short/long protocol decisions and what kinds of conversations you had with your consultant before you started on IVF... apologies for my endless questions and to those who are not doing IVF. I guess I should head over to the assisted conception thread for some of these questions though it seems a lot of us are heading IVFwards. I'm just so comfy on this thread, it feels like home

Ahh, I thought you'd be having two generals joy. Still, it will be a rough time fr you, lots of tlc needed. I think it's sort of inevitable that those of us in the ttc longer than 2 years bracket would end up needing ivf.

x-post with lots of people!

Joycep thanks for the info about gonal f pens. I didn't even know it was possible to shop around! Sausage factory, that's exactly what it feels like.

Akuaba yes we've had faulty memory and denial too, i do suspect beers are being had behind my back. He pretended to have given up smoking on and off for about 4 years before he actually did so i wouldn't be surprised.

MrsDen my scan is day 21-ish to confirm ovulation. I thought I had to start injecting straight away but I might have got that wrong.

Artemis, keep the questions coming because I want to know the answers too. Is your cycle an nhs one? I only know the stuff that my dr told me on Monday. I have no reason to think he's lying but you never know, they can say anything I suppose. He said that short protocol is harder for the clinc to schedule for, but better for the woman. He said their no 1 concern was to keep me safe, and no 2 was to get me pregnant. He said short is better because The body doesn't like being forced to shut ovaries down. Also, I may have misunderstood but I think he said that ohss was easier to manage or less likely to occur with short. He also said studies show the outcomes with short are as good, if not better. So he said he was almost certain they would do short for me but that the final decision would depend on the results from the scan. This is why I'm wondering what the scan might show that would make them go for long. I should have just asked at the time but I didn't think about it til after.

If you're doing long Artemis, then you would start injecting then with the downregging drugs. With short you start at the beginning of the cycle which is why it's 2 weeks shorter, much fewer injections.

mrsd as I understand it, short protocol = the usual amount of stimming with the aim of getting lots of eggs. Mild = lower doses with the aim of getting about 3-5 eggs. I think the long protocol with downregging makes life easier for the clinic as they start stimming with a baseline of zero rather than having to work with whatever your natural hormones are. However based on my experience, I say stuff making life easier for the flipping clinic!

Artemis for my NHS cycle there was no discussion at all and they used a "one size fits all" model as far as I could see. The dosage of drugs was decided before I walked in and I was given a sheet showing what to inject when.

As mrsd said, for the long protocol you would start downregging on day 21 (this is what I did). Then once everything is shut down (after about 2 weeks usually) you start stimming. With short protocol you just start the stimming at the start of your cycle.

I have heard of people getting fertility drugs from this lot, although I am not sure if they are the cheapest option.
www.hah.co.uk/services-and-treatments/our-services/healthcare-at-home-pharmacy

joycep what is the lump all about? I think I must have missed your posts about that during my travels. That will be a rought week. Make sure Mr J looks after you well!

Thanks for the clarification Mrsden and Euro. I've just checked the leaflet I've got about downregging - it says "this step in the treatment... allows us to plan the cycle more readily and does appear to substantially increase the success of the treatment" but doesn't give any evidence to support that claim. It seems to me that most of what I've been told about timescales is for the clinic's convenience. For example the nurse was telling me that some of the procedures are normally done on a certain day of the week.

Mrsden mine is a paid cycle but through the NHS, so a hybrid between completely NHS and completely private. We pay for the IVF, the drugs and any further costs eg frozen embryo storage, but the blood tests, scans and consultation (if I manage to get one!) are on the NHS. However the treatment flexibility or lack thereof is very much NHS. Euro my treatment sounds very much like your one size fits all NHS cycle. I'm not happy but I don't see many other options as I can't afford the full private option, and even if I did I'd end up in the same clinic, I can't say whether the treatment would actually be any different.

My most recent NHS consultant appt as much as said they only do LP because they don't have the luxury of flexibility. He also said it is unlikely to make a difference to the outcome. My protocol is flare. But I'm taking something about a week before my period, maybe the pill, because they said its still better to try to grow the follicles from the same start position? but then you stimm but just after you start you also take a few days of the DR drug which gives you a "flare" boost of FSH. So it uses your body's efforts to its advantage (the reason DR has to go on for a couple of weeks is to overcome this flare). Should be 4 weeks from start to ET I think?

MrNs latest SA is back. All still normal but his previously super sperm are now average. His concentration and therefore count is about a quarter of those he did a year ago . Should this worry me?

Nelly, I wouldn't be concerned about the sa, it varies massively so will go up and down. If you're having ivf anyway, it's not really an issue except they might choose to do icsi rather than normal ivf.
Artemis, my understanding was that they now don't think there is a differencein outcomes between the two protocols. I haven't looked up any research though. I think the long one makes it much easier for the clinic because then they're in charge of dates.

The conclusion was it was suitable for all treatments so they've not recommended ICSI. I think I'm more worried about telling MrN. He has literally just (in the last week) stopped smoking his pointless one a day took him bloody long enough and has cut down the booze a fair bit. Now even though I know that these things won't make a difference to a sample given last week, he will say "see, it was better before"......

That's exactly what I understand about the protocols too MrsD. Except for my weirdo consultant at the last clinic, who said LP gave you one more egg .

Sorry about the concentration of Ops, Joy. Ugh.

How is princess doing today?

Euro I saw you posted on that thread in AIBU about pets v kids. Luckily there were a lot of really lovely and intelligent posts but some of them made me want to throttle the posters. It was exactly those smug parents issue we'd talked about on here before. If I had posted, I'd have got very angry.

Nelly thank you for asking. That AIBU thread sounds hideous! I may have to go and throw some buns! I'm sure that Mr N' sperm isn't really that different, maybe he was just having an off day? Your scan sounded very positive. Do you feel reassured? I'm in awe of your capacity to deal with all of the IVF stuff, woo stuff, wedding, house and hobbles.

Joy sorry that you are going to be going through so much at once. At least it will all be out of the way, but not pleasant in any way shape or form. I hope everything goes pain free and smoothly. And that no discoveries are made during your lap.

Doll wow, your trip does sound FFSakey. Are you home yet? Is mini doll ok? I hope your IVF appointment goes well.

Artemis I'm glad that your Mum was supportive. That's brilliant news. I did chuckle at the chimp shackles and your cat with the comedy name and the confused receptionist and your response. I have always hankered after chihuahua's (proper ones with mini lion manes, not bald, poppy eyed ones) and we have been threatening to get to boys called Gilbert and George. DHs mum is a knit wear designer and I was telling her how I'm worried about having dogs scratch the new furniture / floors and she mentioned that she could always make some non-wanky booties ok, so all booties are wanky . And then she said, like mini ugg booties, which I'm quite taken by in a very sad way. Wax jackets and mini booties on gay chihuahua's called Gilbert and George. I now realise that I am actually as mad as a bag of frogs

Coco totally understand. We're all here if you need us. I tried to give up for a while, I think I lasted 2 days of not posted and probably a few hours of not reading! I hope you have some nice quality time with your DH :)

Buzzy exciting about a new fur baby. I think you should give her a new name :)

Sar hope you are ok today.

Critter very impressed by your reasoned list. Do you feel any close to making any decisions?

MrsD at your princess thinking you can control the weather. I must admit I'm not a huge cat fan, but that's mostly because they use our new garden like a toilet and they come from every angle. They even shat on the net to protect the vegetables Any tips to stop them in a non violent way?

Big waves and tail feather shakes, sorry not to name check everyone, it's been mighty busy on here today.

Ladies doing IVF before Xmas: I'm thinking so much about you all and hoping that there is a spree of BFPs at the same time, so we can all vacate this thread together. I don't wanna have to go on my own

Ladies coming to the meet up: providing it's a sticky sea monkey, you can all stroke me as much as you like. I only charge £5 a stroke only joking. I'm quite tactile, so I'm sure I'll be fine with strangers from the internet stroking me I'll tell my sister that on the train to London this time and see what reaction it gets from the other passengers

Well here is the news from me. Princess is shit scared today. I didn't sleep well last night, I'm constantly hungry, weeing every half an hour, feeling sicky.... just as I remember it (but it's nice to have the symptoms - reassuring. I'm not good without sleep though and it makes me think that I'll make something go wrong because I'm not resting - stupid - I know). I woke up at 2.30 last night, literally starving, stomach growling etc So I reached over into the food box for a raw fruit bar, between the single beds, next to DHs head and he shouted "BIG MOUSE", which I thought was hilarious!! I had to reassure him that it was just his wife and not a huge mouse

I'm seeing the GP tomorrow. But I've got another quiet day at work, which is letting my mind wander. I am trying to keep positive but it's like my brain won't let me get excited yet and is preparing to MC. Kiki is like a scared child clinging to a tree, wide eyed and terrified today. She just comes out for bananas and lots of them.

Also, I'm flying back to my 'rents tomorrow and I MC'd the first time two days after a flight home. So I'm really scared about that too. I know it will be fine. It's just a bit of a reminder of being excited and then totally crushed. And going through it twice. And possibly a third time.

I didn't want to come and moan about all this on here today as I know you lot are all making big decisions and having to face horrible things. I am so pleased that things are obviously working in the lady and man places, thrilled in fact. I'm also glad that I don't have to have the HSG - that was making me feel quite stressed. I am trying to keep positive, do the Zita West CD, I'm being pragmatic and taking each day as it comes and trying not to have any expectations. But if I'm honest, I'm totally terrified of this going wrong and it's so hard to stay calm and measured. Especially with Lemon and MissMs familiar stories in my mind. It's just a reminder about how often these things don't work out

The only thing I can take from all of this is that I have been through 2 in the past and I have come through them, life goes on and they just seem to be part of my human experience now. And as I said, I'm really happy that our bits and bobs have managed to throw something together.

I will be meditating (not easy mid afternoon at the in laws) later and going shopping for slippers (it's arctic cold here and I've had to put my trainers on to keep my feet warm) socks and a jumper later. The only place nearby is M&S (not my usual...) but when needs must.... I did also see quite a nice sequined sweater when we went to do our food shop the other night.

I've been reading the thread today but didn't know what to say. But I've said it all now. I hope I don't come across as ungrateful or moany. I'm not. Just terrified. Especially as I keep thinking of the boozes I had in my 2ww as a, well feck it, it's not like I'm going to get pregnant or anything this month is it. Mini princess will be a posh champagne, wine and cocktail connoisseur from day dot, if it isn't pickled already

Oh and it still doesn't even feel like it's happening. I had to retrieve the stripey hobnob from my bag to remind myself at lunch time! Yes, I still have the piss sodden stick in my handbag.

I think you're all great. Please bare with me whilst I go through my wobbles

You have a food box by your bed princess? For what it's worth I have a good feeling about your pregnancy, the previous mc could be due to nothing more than awful bad luck. It has to be a good sign that egg and sperm Are meeting and doing their thing. Hopefully the gp will be reassuring tomorrow. How many weeks do you think you are? Wouldn't it be amazing of all of us going through ivf this autumn winter can graduate together with you to an ante natal thread. You'll always be no. 1 princess.

MrsD thank you so much for your kind words. I'm hoping that being non smokers this time, we have a bit more of a chance. I hope my GP will reassure me too. I am 4 wks and 4 days today, so it's super, super early at the moment. I put my dates into one of those due date calculators and my due date is 09/06/2013. That's just a few days before I had the first MC and it will have been 4 years ago by then - I can't believe it will have taken us 4 years to make a baby.... and that's if this pregnancy works out. DH isn't even acknowledging that I'm pregnant and keeps referring to the situation as, stirrings. Such as, I told my nutritionist the good news in case I needed to switch supplements, and he said, "oh did you tell her about the stirrings" In his mind, he is just "interested" that something is "going on". I guess that's his coping mechanism but it did make me feel a bit and like it's not viable. I also think he's gone into man freak out mode. I've seen it many times before. It doesn't matter how old they are!

Anyway, keep the faith and in the words of Zita West say to yourself in moments of stress CALM and RELAXED (repeat x5)

Oh yeah, we do have the contents of our dry food cupboards in boxes by the bed. We've kind of taken over the in laws house and there isn't room for all of my whole food stash in the kitchen. It reminds me of being a student and keeping the naice food in my room because if left unattended someone else would eat it. FWIW I don't think the in laws would be interested in my organic, whole grain, non salted, non sugared snacks! And it's quite handy having bed time snacks at the foot of the bed. Perhaps we should all have a snack cupboard by bed?!

nelly Mr B had 2 SA results in 8 days and they were very different, average is still bloody good going, I really do think it just depends on the day.

princess its natural to feel like that especially if a similar situation is about to happen as in flying home, we talked about flu jabs at work and I thought about last time I had one I miscarried 3 days later, stupid when I'm not even pregnant to worry about it
At this stage there is very little you can do to harm/protect your baby, and there is no reason why it won't work this time but I can understand that with past experience you want to protect yourself, I think that is what Mr P is also trying to do in his own funny way, at snack box I used to keep things next to bed too, Mr B would snort like a pig at me

coco can understand that you need a break, I sometimes feel like that too, big hugs

mellow where are you???

Well fur baby is now hiding under the bed much to Mr B's disappointment, he is like a child we are thinking of calling her Kayla but that could change

waves to everyone and keep up the IVF chat

Just popping in quickly.

arte and mrs d I asked my consultant about benefits of long protocol and she said there weren't any and it's to do with the clinic timing EC and ET for days they are open. She would say this, as she advocates mild ivf and I'm sure it's not detrimental. But I have picked my clinic purely on the fact they won't make me do it/take loads of stims. I haven't been able to find any other private clinic that would let me do mild/no down regging.

As euro said, you'd expect 4-5 eggs with the mild stims but I got 12, 10 of which were good enough for icsi. I don't know if this is normal for someone of my age/AFC, or if I just responded really well.

mrsd maybe they suggest lp if they find some cysts? Would closing down the ovaries help with this?!

arte you can get a private prescription and shop around for drugs. Asda has been the cheapest I've found so far!

Right, that's exhausted my ivf knowledge, although do ask if there's anything I can help with.

Awwww princess, please do continue to post. I find it really sad when Fred grads disappear, although understand why they would want to post about baybee stuff instead. I intend to emotionally blackmail you to keep posting until at least the meet up. I too have a good feeling about this pregnancy and you are getting your progesterone tested. You made me laugh out loud on the train like a mad lady, with your mouse story.

doll you too made me lol with the drink police. Did you see a lady on the ivf Fred got a BFP after having 4 embies put back in? Thought of your crazy dr.

Good luck coco

Oh joy you have a stressful week coming up. I must ask you further about the leg lump, as I too have one!

sar sorry to hear about the somber feeling. I'm sure it will pass and is a normal stage of the grieving. Hugs.

buzzy fur baby sounds so cute. Please do bring a pic to the meet up!

Waves to everyone else. My sister and I are hatching a plan to do some exciting travelling, if I'm not pregnant by this time next year. Will be a good way of leaving it all behind, before moving onto adoption. It's nice to have something to look forward to!

Morning lovelies!

I spent an hour last night catching up and saw the biggest news of the thread:

WOOOOHOOOOO princess! Congratulations and I am keeping everything crossed for a sticky hobnob.

But I didn't get to the end before my counseling appointment, so I didn't post. Now I am not sure whether to spend an hour reading up, or work... I know what I'd prefer. But I am off to present something later this morning and I need to do a bit on the presentation still. So for now waves and preening!

Will catch up properly at the weekend lovelies. Had a moment that I may be left in the 10+ thread alone. Please don't collectively migrate! I don't mind you talking babies!

Thanks lemon, I need a preen today.

Oh and I agree about the progesteron testing, princess. From what I read when miscarrying about additional is that it lowers the chance of MC in established well developing (heart and stuff) pregnancies, it does nothing for the proper failures. But if a little supplementation is needed, I'd go for it (even if they are disgusting suppositories). Also my friend with multiple MC carried to term on supplementary progesteron, so I am biased.