TTC for 10+ months, part 8

[eurochick]

A friendly, supportive thread for those taking a blooming long time to conceive!

Rabbit ? you have been through so much. You have had to deal with scary ops, scary diagnosis meetings so it is no wonder that you are terrified of hospitals. I am pleased you have been given a clean bill of health and i am pleased you have been advised not to use clomid. I think you should just see the next 6 months as a new start with no hospitals and no doctors, just you, Mr rabbit and your special flexy womble!

Pout ? my mum hasn?t said anything in the last month but she must have told me 6 times in the last 2 years that you can?t expect to get pregnant when you think about it. Sorry about the spotting. It?s flipping miserable isn?t it.

Critter ? i?m going to read that article. I like the articles you post. More please!

Sarlat ? i?m pleased ewcm has made a reappearance. I have to say whenever i see it, I get quite excited. Depressing that this is what life has become!

Euro ? i?m really not surprised you are anxious. That?s great that you have got out jogging again. Exercise makes such a difference and i expect that?s why i?m so frustrated at the moment as i have let my fitness slide. Mr Euro sounds lovely though and very thoughtful.

Carrie ? i am glad you are going back tot eh gp. I do think your endo needs to be looked at.

Lemon ? i can?t believe how long it takes to recover from a GA. I honestly was thinking that i could take a day?s leave and then go back in the next day!

Artemis ? have a fabulous holiday. Don?t forget not to think about trying to conceive because that is how you get pregnant. Have fun!

Princess ? but during your pregnancies, when did your boobs become excruciating?

Purple ? my woo chap told me that boob pain is a sign of infertility [thanks Woo, my boobs are excruciating every month]. That doesn?t really correspond with Princess having excruciating boob pain in pregnancy though.. My acupuncturist tells me boob pain is a great sign. My boob pain is the thing that really has changed since my pregnancy and I don?t think it?s a change for the better. They are sodding painful from ovulation whereas before they were tender and got big. I just feel as soon as they are excruciating and waking me up in the night then the game is over. My gynae tells me it?s hormonal and no one seems to think it is particularly significant but i?m sure it is.

Medusa ? congrats on the OPK. You better get down to biz tonight! Sorry about your appointment. How bad is your husband?s SA? Sorry if yo uhave said before but is it low motility or low count?

Opa! News from ATHENS!! It was like opening up exam results. The email tells me there were some positive results but I am still a bit unsure. By the look of the paperwork, I have come back positive for hidden Chlamydia. Now i know there is some debate about this test because i have had two Chlamydia tests over here which all came back negative. This test looks for Chlamydia DNA i think. I must say i think everyone must have this in their system because as i have said before the first time i had unprotected sex was 2 years ago and mrjoy has lead a very sedate sex life. My acupuncturist says he thinks that hiddenC should really be called unknown bacteria infection as Chlamydia seems like the wrong term.
It also looks like they have found a vaginal infection due to a bacterial microorganism like E-coli and proteus. I thought e-coli was what you got from eating raw chicken but there we go. I need to contact the lady there and she will tell me more i guess. Not convinced this is the cause of my sudden infertility although not sure I want E-Coli up my foof {thanks Euro for that term}. I will let you know more as i get it.

MrsD you definitely don't have a barren look about you. I can say this confidently having met you in RL. Glad you had a lovely weekend away. I can't wait for my few days break (6 days to go and counting!) Only 2 weeks to go now for your results. I know it will feel like an eternity but it really isn't long.

In other news, my best friend has her 12 scan in 3 weeks time. Just in time for when my ERTD is due to turn up....to the day. Oh how I look forward to that one. I think you theory is so right MrsD. ERTD always coincides with other peoples joyous news. I'm not even going to tempt fate and say that I could also get a BFP the day that she has her scan Crossed out saying doesn't count. Anyway, it ain't gonna happen. I'm so prepared for that one. And it justifies my big spend on skinny holiday clothes that will do for our November holiday as well as our August holiday too.

Princess, I was thinking about you today, I promise not in a stalker ish way. But I was thinking that with your brown diet and perfect results a bfp. Must be coming your way. I so hope with all my heart you get one the same day as your friends scan.

Miss m, those results don't look that bad to me. But then I have a skewed view because my dh are so bad. I'm going to pm you.

Interesting results joycep. Am I allowed to say I'm a bit skeptical about these hidden infections? But I suppose following their advice isn't going to hurt.

X post Joy & MissM

Joy Interesting about your results. Quite different to Carebear's. I did wonder with my cynical brain whether they would come back the same. I don't get really sore boobs during normal cycles. Sometimes they are a bit tender just before ERTD and sometimes my nipples are sore to touch just before too. Mother Nature's very own evil nipple cripple. In answer to your question, boobs were excruciating a few days after BFPs. With the magic 'fake' boob effect a few days before the M/C. Then they stopped hurting and I lost the babies but annoyingly the 'fake' boobs stayed for a few days after the M/Cs. I guess it's the hormones working their way out. This will no doubt lead to excessive future mentalling if I ever manage to get pregnant again. I will be stabbing my aching boobs excessively through the day like a crazed women to check that the sea monkey is still attached....

MissM I'm not sure about SA results. So I won't add anything there. Ah, I didn't realise you were another overseas bod. In that case there is less pressure. You just need to decide what's right for you both. And as Joy say's you better get to it tonight!!!

I read somewhere that the sore boob thing might be a result of the body being sensitive to changing hormones ie from oestrogen to progesterone. I get the about 7 days post ovulation until the day before af. It's not really my nipples, just the breast tissue feels sort of bruised. They also are noticeably bigger and more full.

That's really lovely of you to say MrsD. I don't think you are being stalkish at all. I often think of you ladies. In fact, I had a weird dream that we met up for a coffee on a square in London outside this massive and gorgeous town house that belonged to Gin's parents a few nights ago.... I can't remember any more of the dream except it went a bit bizarre from that point! I can't get my hopes up but I am hoping that the hard work on the diet front and the okay progesterone and the chilling out and holiday's and not moving in with the in laws will yield a BFP in the next 6 months. They can't find a problem and I'm sure my progesterone levels have increased. I don't expect an instadiff and we are trying to be a bit more relaxed, spontaneous and fun about trying. It really helps that I should be laying the egg on our anniversary next Tuesday and that we have loads of spa treatments booked in and will be in a quiet and relaxing place. I will be mentalling like hell during the 2ww this cycle. It will be the first proper one since Jan. The following month, I will be laying the egg a few days after coming home from holiday and the following month we'll be all moved in to the new nest, I mean, home. So, we should at least be a little less stressed than we have been over the last year.

missm Oh God, sorry that you received disappointing news. Pushing you on in your referral is a comfort of sorts I suppose. It does only take one sperm though and if you have treatment they will be selecting the good stuff and giving it a chauffeur driven ride to it's rendez vous point. Hope that you are okay.

mrsd No pointy finger...just OPK rudunculousness
carrie like mrsd said I was discharged from a fertility clinic with "sorry we don't have funding, we don't know what's wrong with you, tatty bye". We moved house and I was referred by my new GP to a different PCT & have had great treatment so far. Interestingly no IUI as it's not funded.

BTW I agree Mrsd and princess that the witch always turns up at the worst possible times & when I feel at my most vulnerable.

Princess Yes, in answer to your question, Clomid is next cycle. I am waivering between being shit scared of it (mainly of the mood swings, potential for messed up cycle and potential to make my migraines worse) and looking forward to it. Does it make you put on weight I wonder....

joycep Thank God that we have had word from Greece! Interesting results. What do you do next?
Foofal e-coli is not something I had considered

joycep I guess to give the mothers credit, they didn't have many other options beyond "relax and it'll happen" back in the day.

It's exciting that you have your results and that they have found something. I am also a little sceptical about the hidden c stuff and wonder if it is something pretty much everyone has. I guess they are relatively cheap to test for and treat compared to some of the other stuff, so it can do not harm to try and sort that stuff out.

mrsd bruised is exactly it. Mine starts from 1-2dpo, but is only noticeable during prodding at that point!

MissM those results look reasonable although I don't know what the A-D for motility signifies. All of the other markers looks just fine though.

princess the new well-timed relaxed approach sounds good!

Firstly MissM sorry to hear your disappointing news. I noticed I x posted with a one liner to euro, sorry if it looked insenstive. I don't understand the details of the results I'm afraid, although perhaps someone else here will have something on that? When Mr Purple had his only one I got a phone call saying it was normal, that's it and I didn't know then that there was much more to it.

On the boob pain, it seems we are all different, the only thing I can't believe is your woo guy Joyce that doesn't seem right at all.

So just when to fill up pee pot for the one-time-only OPK as HPT. No stick was dipped. Period discovered. Wow, mean. I pee on so few sticks thought I would be allowed that one. It's fine. CD1

I guess that's how they present the results here.

A: forward progressive
B: sluggish progressive
c: non-progressive
d: dead

A + B is supposed to be over 50% (or 40% depending on the guidelines) but if I have understood properly it's the A's that are most important and those are quite low for DH (should be over 25%).

pout I think you're right, I'm feeling better and better about the referral to the fertility clinic. Regardless of which path we go down, it's best to get the information from the experts. I'm going to look at it as a positive thing and make an appointment - not necessarily to take the next step but just to see what is recommended and what my options are.

Thanks for the support ladies. I can't believe I've only been part of this group for 3 weeks and already it has given me so much support.

Miss m , I've dug out mrdens results, his motility was 69% with the normal range being above 40. This was the only measure that he got a good result on! Bear in mind though his numbers are low, and morphology low too. So, I think your dh does have low motility. But good news is that motility can change all the time. How long was there between doing the sample and having it analysed? How many sample has he given? They should do at leAst 2.

There have been 2 samples approximately 1 month apart, both similar results but these are the results of the 2nd test. The first test he waited 5 days between ejaculations and the count was higher but the motility slightly lower and I think I remember him saying something about the results being looked at 1 hour after ejaculation and then again for something the next day.

I still hope that all the xrays and medications he's been having for his back are the cause of his bad results and that they will normalise with time but only time will tell on that.

Mrsd - you are more than welcome to say you are sceptical. I am too!

Princess I would love to do a survey on boob pain. Yours hurt when you found out you were pregnant as did mine. I wonder if anyone gets pregnant when their boobs are really painful just after ovulation.

Euro - are you still going to DrG soon? Will you have these hidden c tests?

MissM - MrM back troubles may very well have played a part in all this. His morph looks goods and count not that bad. I don't know much about the other figs. IuI though may give the leg up they need though.

So that vaginal e coli infection isn't bad. Lactobillis I see is in the yoghurt I eat every day so confused.com.
They suggest me and mrjoy should go on anti bs for 25 days.. After beig desperate for anti bs because of my little theories , I am now not so sure about this!! There seem to be a lot of tablets on the list.
Do you ladies think it is worth a try?

Completely off subject...

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/celebrity/celebrity-news/2011/11/17/kate-middleton-pregnant-baby-news

Just because I know this has been a popular topic of conversation. If the 'historians' are correct, we have plenty of time on our sides to beat the Middy...

Joy are there any side effects for the antibiotics? Has anyone heard from Carebear about how she is getting on? Do you know which antibiotics target which bacteria? I guess I would be a bit skeptical - don't we always have some bacteria in us? If you are not oozing some horrid discharge or showing other signs of infection, do you think you have an infection? The other part of me says what the hell, it's just a bunch of antibiotics and if that's what does it you will be very grateful in the long run. Completely useless advice. Sorry about that!

I see MissM. So he is not far off the 50%. IUI might just give the swimmers the headstart they need?

princess I feel sorry for KMiddy for all of the pressure on her. It must feel awful to feel like an heir-provider. I just bought Red magazine for the article on adoption. I will read it later. I always thought I wouldn't contemplate adoption, but my thoughts keep turning to it, so I think it is something to at least consider.

joycep I plan to do the anitbs if we have a positive result. Other than maybe thrush or an upset tummy, as long as you are not allergic to any of them, they are unlikely to have bad effects and may help. that's my reasoning anywy.

My Dr G appointment is tomorrow...

joycep That is weird about the lactobillis being in yoghurt. Whether to push on is a difficult one. On the one hand 25 days is a long course of antibiotics especially when you are prone to thrush. That said you wouldn't have gone to all the trouble of mailing blood to Greece if you didn't feel strongly about it...most of us were really for it.
Have you Googled other peoples experiences much?
I have just remembered, this is a common fertility treatment in France. I would go for it. If it's good enough for French barrens, it's good enough for us

missm Ahhh, I hadn't made the connection between MrM and all his back issues. That could well be the root cause of the slightly off results. I wouldn't be surprised if after a few months they improve. Is MrM taking supplements?

Oh no purple at being thwarted by the arrival of period. Like me, piss on stick and then start spotting! There must be something in those sticks that trigger bleeding! Joins in in the throwing things around and sulking sighing

x-post euro Good luck with your appointment tomorrow

MissM sorry that you've had such a stressful time. I think you're taking absolutely the right approach to go to the experts and hear what options are available to you, so you can see all the cards, as it were, and make an informed decision. I hope that your DH's count is affected by the large quantities of medication he's had to take - that must have a big effect on swimmers - and that it will improve as he gets better.

princess I can't believe that next week you'll be back on the TTC horse! I will have fingers and toes crossed for you. Spa treatments sound perfect - you're doing all the right things. I will be in the UK on holiday for the last part of my next 2ww, and I really think that being home with family will make the blow easier if it's another BFN and amazing if it isn't . Like you, I feel like this whole horrible period has made me more robust, and more empathetic to other people's personal sadnesses. It's forcing me to think really hard about my life and how I can be happy even without a baby. Perhaps if I had got everything I wanted, when I wanted it, I would have just bumbled through life without really valuing the blessings that I do have, or understanding how hard life can be on other people. It's definitely helped me to grow up and think more about what can make me happy, what my 'purpose' is, if not to be a mother. I've had the time to do a lot of thinking, that's for sure.

purple so sorry to hear about CD1. I hope you're ok, and that this fresh start is the magic one.

pout so you're joining me on the Clomid train! Good luck - I hope it's going to be the lucky ticket for you. What dosage will they start you on, or haven't they said yet?

mrsden I know - from what I understand from reading US lifestyle blogs, which are randomly often written by Mormon women (because they are educated, bored from not working, good at crafts and 'make do and mend' projects from growing up in massive families, and encouraged to keep journals) having lots of babies and being a mother is basically considered to be women's entire purpose in the Mormon church - like you I am very grateful that I don't have that cultural pressure on me too. There are lovely things about being a very family-oriented culture, but it must make it especially hard for people who struggle. That's interesting about the orthodox Jews, too.

joyce at the exam results from Athens. I don't know what I'd do about taking the antibiotics - tough call.

artemis enjoy your holiday! I agree that there is now a modern assumption that IVF solves any fertility problems, and that perhaps there is less understanding and acceptance of involuntary childlessness that isn't a 'lifestyle choice'. I think a lot of people don't understand how big a deal IVF is, and assume that age is the only factor in fertility troubles.

sarlat baby carrots, eh? I am CD12 today so going to grab a bag at lunch. Maybe it will help in my quest to shift my extra American food-induced chub too - bonus!

carrie and euro, hope you are both ok.

lemon it's great that you oved, and are recovering. I hope that your body is healing and getting back to normal as fast as it can.

Waves to everyone I have missed!

princess thanks for the book recommendation. What juicer did you buy? I remember you posting about getting one but cannot remember which one you thought was best.

euro I know there's lots of pressure on her and I don't envy her one little bit. But she did fall in love with a Prince and decided to marry to him. Sucker It's a bit of a gilded cage really isn't it. But I don't like the idea of the media circus if she gets pregnant before me. Because there will be even more reminders than normal. Everywhere. Oh Gawd. Why do I even care?!!!!!!!! Good luck with your appointment tomorrow. Can't wait to hear how you get on.

JoyceP Don't listen to my cynicism. I think Pout and Euro are much more sensible than I am. It's only 3 weeks and 4 days worth of antibiotics. I took more than this when I had a kidney infection a few years back and the last batch were strong ones too as the first two lots did nothing (nasty bout of cystitis made it's way up into my kidney as my stupid doctor prescribed me pain killers for backache. Despite me telling him that I could feel it was an infection)

MrM is taking supplements (wellman) when I personally shove them down his throat. He means well but often forgets. I do think things will get better, if only slightly, in a few months time. He's back to the gym and taking care of himself which is such a relief after nearly a year of mostly vegetating on the couch and he does take the supplements when he remembers. I also found a brand new super pack of boxer shorts. He's still cycling daily but I figure then fitness benefits of that will outweigh any negative effect it might have on his sperm (if there even is any). Also, he'll start taking the Tamoxifen which should improve his results a little bit although the gyno, yesterday, told me the improvement will likely only be minimal. I guess we'll see.

purple sorry about the bitch getting you again :(

Euro I've got a Matstone 6 in 1. It's a masticator juicer - which is great for leaves and can make nut butters and all sorts of other things. I had a centrifugal juicer before and these only really juice fruits and veg like apples, carrots, beetroots and are hideously messy. They won't do leaves easily at all. The Matstone is a lot easier to clean than my old juicer. Matstone 6 in 1

mrsden it's interesting that you mentioned orthodox Jews, something on tv was it? I lived with a family of ultra orthodox many years ago and indeed it is an extraordinary way to life with reference to a women's cycle. I must say I haven't considered it in terms of early ovulation as it was long before I even thought about having kids. Just shows you though, everything now draws us back to TTC. More generally, very true that culturally we are the lucky ones in terms of making babies. I think about this a lot (I'm an anthropologist) honestly I didn't dare mention it here before, it being cold comfort - shit for us, even more shit for others.

Thanks princess. I am going to consider getting one of those. I doubt Mr Nex will take much persuading that we should acquire a new kitchen gadget!

pout I strongly recommend counselling, it really has helped me get through the last few months, I had spotting around this stage of my cycle and then got a bfp, that digit is waving your way :) and at Mr P taking your stitches out, don't they have DN's in your part of faux Surrey

lemon mine is through work so done in work time if you can fit it in its great, it doesn't have to be every week

carrie sorry they are natural killer cells, they believe that could be the cause of my miscarriages

joycep at your woo man, honestly no boobs no opinion especially when he has nothing to back it up, my boobs hurt like hell when pregnant usually straight after the BFP like princess said, (mine were sore for a bit after my miscarriages but then it took a month to get rid of all the hsg in my system) they were really the first symptom I had but interestingly enough though I don't get sore boobs on the progesterone bullets. Can I ask if you will share your treatment plan, I'm just curious to see how it differs from cares treatment

medusa not an expert on the SA, I asked Mr Shehata and he said he likes at least 4% morphology and 50-60% motility, Mr B was 2% morphology and 14% motility and yet I fell pregnant first month of trying last year and then again 3 months after the first miscarriage, so they do change and quite dramatically. I give Mr B L'arginine, L'caratine ,co enzyme q 10 and macca, a friend gave this list after her DH's SA wasn't good and it supposedly helped.

just to say that I didn't cry continuously for 40 minutes but most of it,
well I haven't had any twinges with the industrial strength Gonal F and only 1 bar on the cbfm I usually get 2 bars at this point, so have been mentalling about it all day, I'm supposed to have my scan on Friday, now I'm worried that either
a)the drugs are not workinG
b) the pee stick is crap
c) that it might be too early for the scan

will have to decide on Thursday whether to cancel the scan