Fantastic 40+ thread - part 7

[lolfactor]

Shiny new thread - over here everyone

I thought I'd give you a couple more nuggets of info from the chart which resulted in pregnancy for me back in January. A lady on here (I'm sorry, I can't remember your name) was asking about egg-white cervical mucus (EWCM). My pregnancy chart shows I had EWCM on day 12 and I ovulated day 15. On days 13 & 14 I left the CM space blank as I remember having nothing discernible to report. On the day of ovulation I had 'watery' CM. My pattern of intercourse: 12.30pm on the day of ovulation (I reckon this was bang-on the money); very late PM two days before ovulation; and very late PM two days before that (four days before ovulation).

The chart immediately after the ERPC shows we had a ridiculous amount of well-timed intercourse on the day of ov and each day preceding for about a week. No positive OPK and no fertile CM. I really don't believe I ovulated. It took three months after the ERPC to see any fertile CM and even then it wasn't egg-white.

Egg-white only returned this last month and was only discovered after straining for a poo, checking my 'front bum' toilet paper and stretching the findings between thumb & finger. I'm so glad I checked after the poo as I am convinced it would not have appeared naturally in my underwear or 'digging for it'. Sorry if this is all a bit crude but I do feel the presence of EWCM is crucial in order to keep those sperm healthy and alive from the sex we have days before ovulation. That's why I'm always excited to see it. I'm beginning to sound like a weirdo...

...can I also add that my LH surge is always detected the day before ovulation. However, this last month I decided to use a Clearblue digital predictor and it gave me a smiley face at 8pm TWO DAYS before I ovulated. The conclusion to this boring tale (sorry!) is that I don't trust the Clearblue digitals. I honestly believe ovulation takes place 24-36 hours after a true LH surge - not 48 hours. I dismantled the Clearblue stick after it gave me a smiley face and the line was surprisingly very faint. Had that been my usual cheapie OPK I would have dismissed it as negative.

I also no longer get excited about 'implantation dips'. I had a hugely exciting one on 8 DPO in May and I wasn't pregnant.

I also do not get excited any longer when my temperatures begin to 'soar'. I don't actually believe the behaviour of post ovulation temps mean a damn thing until the day before AF is due. I've examined squillions of women's pregnancy charts on fertilityfriend and there are some freakishly weird goings-on right up until the BFP - huge drops in temp falling below the coverline all the way through their luteal phase etc. Hope any of this helps..

cuckoo maybe a bit tmi there about the poo but otherwise interesting stuff. i am wondering if having sperm up there makes the CM hard to assess? I got a luteinising hormone surge result today but my CM is clumpy and opaque. But we've been doing it a lot.

Somewhere, there's no way of telling the true nature of CM when it's mixed in with sperm. You're in with a fab chance if you've been having sex alot; more sex tonight and tomorrow will be spot on for you if you've surged today, I reckon. Good luck! (Sorry about the poo story - I was trying to explain how otherwise I would never have known the EWCM was there).

cuckoo - never TMI when it comes to ttc. We all want to know the detailsI have found Fertility Friend absolutely wonderful. I have been charting there since Jan 2007 (I started ttc our DS in April 2007, conceived Nov 2007 - I had just turned 41). The charting has really helped understand my cycle and has helped get through the long wait after the miscarriages - it took a while to ovulate. But it also reassured me, when my doctor said, "it is unlikely that you are ovulating as your day 2 estrogen levels are low", but from the charting I could see a temp shift, and I also used opks.I also had normal levels of progesterone on day 21. And since she said that, I have had a pregnancy (the last one which miscarried early).

I don't have obvious egg-white mucus, but still manage getting pregnant.I do have a change - it becomes watery after being creamy- but rarely see the egg-white stuff. I used to have copious amounts of it when I was young. I had no idea how much I'd miss it when I got olderbut I didn't even realise what it was.

By the way, you should have your progesterone tested 7 days post O, not on day 21 as is commonly thought. It would get results all wrong if you ovulated on day 17 wouldn't it? Doctors are so ignorant with this stuff.

Congratulations Mrswooster, I hope all goes well for you. Keep us posted.

Cuckoo - brief life story (I think this is what you mean?)- I am a mum of five. I had my first child at age 24, and thought at the time that having children was crazy, he was such an unhappy baby and I had PND. My DH had to convince me that he needed a sibling, so I had DS2. He turned out to be absolutely gorgeous, happy, fat, easy baby and then I decided lots of babies would be great. Then I had DD1. My DH decided that three was enough, but then we were lazy with contraception and along came DD2. She was a tough baby - colic, crying constantly for the first 7 months. By the time she was one my Dh had a vasectomy - which I agreed was a good idea. When DD2 was about 4 I started feeling I really wanted another baby. My Dh was adamant that we were done with having babies, but I just couldn't shake the desire. After three years of trying to feel differently about it, I just couldn't give up the idea, and so my DH agreed to have a reversal, and DS3 came along.

I thought having one baby after DH's reversal would cure me, but unfortunately it hasn't. I feel he needs a sibling close in age, as his nearest sib is 8 years older. His parents are older, so I think it would be good for him to have an ally as he grows up. I'd also love to have one last babe. It just feels natural and what I should be doing. I love the whole thing - being pregnant, having a small baby, having a toddler, and kids of all ages. Unfortunately my poor DH doesn't feel the same way. He feels he's done enough, and who can blame him, he only wanted three kids? But the last time I was pregnant(the miscarriage at 9 weeks), he was actually really comfortable with it, very accepting and seemed happy about it, he just doesn't want to deliberately TTC.So I don't say much and he has no idea about my cycle.

Sorry - that life story was a bit long.

Last day of my holidays today. I've got a visit from my mum this morning, yoga this afternoon, and a nice get together with our neighbourhood friends this evening. A nice way to end the holidays...

Ooooh, hopeful, thank you for all that information! Your hubby sounds lovely to me - and your children! You lucky lady. I feel so ! But...I would imagine your desire for a last baby is just as strong as those of us who are trying for our first. How wonderful if it happens for you again soon. I think you're very wise to keep your DH in the dark regarding cycles - how do you manage that? May I ask if you manage enough sex at the right time without raising ('scuse the pun) his suspicions?

I, too, in hindsight, remember (not too long ago) being semi-aware of tons of slippery, stretchy stuff in my underwear at certain times of the month but I had no concept of fertile fluid or how desirable it would turn out to be!

Last night the DP and I test-drove his new Viagra and it worked a treat (mind you, we're only CD4 and he knows ovulation is a safe distance away - I must try harder to put him off the scent like you, hopeful). However, I know this sounds really awful but I'm beginning to resent all the free-flowing, easy-to-access semen when it's offered up at 'normal' times of the month - I feel it's a waste when we struggle so much at ovulation. Never mind...must think positive. I'm just so desperate to 'gather his harvest' every day for the four days before ov this month. Let's hope the viagra's up to it!

Well, last night I baked my world-famous(?) carrot cake thinking that I would take it to my local hairdresser who did a marvellous job on my thatch last week and whom I sadly (and guiltily) couldn't afford to tip. It was only whilst the magnificent beast was baking in the oven that I realised that it was a Saturday night and the hairdressers won't open again until Monday. So, dear reader, I ate it. And I'm still eating it....

I actually got some EWCM last night. i too remember having loads of it when i was young but didn't think twice about it. anyway i've been sticking my finger up there and getting stretchy stuff - about a centimeter - and opaque and clumpy thinking 'that's not it', that's dried up sperm. then last night i had the opaque, clumpy stuff again.

But suddenly noticed a long stretchy bit of egg whity stuff totally transparent wound around my finger - more like the 5cm they talk about. it was sort of cosmic esp as that WAS the day i got my LH surge. It is all as they say!

Questions:

LH surge yesterday and we DTD yesterday . i'm not sure how long after the LH surge the egg arrives - should we do it several times more?

How do you count your luteal phase? Is the first day the day you ovulate, and the last day the day you menstruate? or is the first day the day after you ovulate, and the last day the day before your period? if the former my luteal phase is 12 days. if the latter, it's only 10. either way it's a bit short.

anyone else out there with a short luteal phase? should i worry?

xx

well done cuckoo - i'm glad the viagra worked. brilliant. there must be ways to put him off the scent IYKWIM

my life story is I got preg and had DS at 36. He was concieved instantly and I was oddly put out by that and felt I wasn't ready. i probably did have PND though never diagnosed. It was really tough. DP not earning much so I've had to be breadwinner. DP also believes there should be a big age gap so we've waited. We were quite influenced by how quick it was to concieve DC 1 so we thought blimey let's make sure we are ready when we go for TTC2.

Now have been trying for about 9 months to conceive - nothing except a two day extended luteal phase the month before last - i think something was going on but never got a BFP.

feeling that i wish we'd started earlier now . but this thread is great .
x

Somewhere, thanks for your story. May I ask your age? I can give you my theory (and Zelda West's) about LH surges. It is believed that ovulation occurs between 24 and 36 hours after your LH surges. It's important to discount the fainter lines on your OPK strip. Tempting though it is to see it as a positive, it will only mess up your mental calculations. Only when the test line is as dark or darker than the control line have you experienced an LH surge. If you buy the cheapie OPKs off the internet you can afford to test up to 3 times per day and hence catch your true surge.

Sex is recommended when the surge is detected and the next day and the day after that. If I get a negative at 3pm and a positive at 8pm I'm pretty much on the money for ovulating between 8pm the following evening and as late as 8am the morning after that. Even then, the egg will survive for between 12 and 24 hours, but if it's only 12 hours you will want plenty of sperm already waiting. This last month, we only managed (due to intense anxiety on DPs part, poor thing) to have sex at 11pm on the day of ovulation. We hadn't managed at all the day before and so I wasn't surprised to find a BFN. I honestly believe I'm in with more of a chance if we've managed sex the day before ovulation and the day before that (especially if there is EWCM to nurture the sperm). After all, who knows what time of day or night the bloody damned egg is actually released? Better to have plenty of sex beforehand, I say, than pin all your hopes on the day itself. Phew! It's a frigging nightmare I reckon, especially if there are anxiety issues leading to erectile dysfunction like my poor DP suffers from around ovulation.

I swear, if the Viagra lets him down this month at the crucial times I will send him to the bedroom with the cup and pipette and tell him not to come out until he's ejaculated. Maybe I'll buy some mucky mags - I don't have the energy, frankly, to dress up as a nurse and keep bending over...

Somewhere, day 1 of your luteal phase is the first day after ovulation. The last day of your luteal phase is the one before your period starts. The luteal phase length varies from 14-16 days, however many women have one as short as 10 days and have babies no problem. If you feel a short luteal phase is preventing pregnancy your GP can advise you on ways of lengthening it if you decide it is required.

Hello

Lots has happened in a week ? am trying to keep up?

Somewhere love your ?brains in tanks?. It is great to be able to talk freely about ttc with others who totally get it.

Hopeful I?m so sorry about your BFN ? having had one myself recently, I know just how rubbish they are. The Olympics starts this Friday (27th) and central London is already bonkers busy...

Welome Paula. My circumstances are different so I can?t offer any help as such but its positive that your tests have shown there?s nothing wrong. Has DP been tested? Have you considered acupuncture ? I?ve heard it can help?

Tina I?m also using donor eggs (opted this time to find my own donor rather than waiting on the list). Hope you?re lovely donor comes along very soon. x

Knicky wow 5 weeks plus that?s great. IrishMammy Congrats on your BFP. Really great news. . Will you go for an early scan?

Gothin never worry about venting, that?s what we?re here for. Hope you?re feeling better now.

MAM so lovely to hear of your scan and it sounds like you?re being well looked after.

Diege ham, egg and chips for me please? and a glass of fizz! And maybe a slice of Cuckoo?s carrot cake too?.

MrsWooster congrats on your BFP ? wonderful news!

Welcome Cuckoo sorry to hear of your mc, I had a mc this year so I do empathise. Your scan story has made me a bit teary. But you did get pregnant and that is a good sign. I?ve heard lots of positive stuff about acupuncture for ladies ttc and wondered if it might help DP. Its meant to be great for relaxation.

Hello to anyone I?ve missed.

My life story;

I?m 45, DP is 40. We have no kids and decided last year ttc but given our ages opted for a fertility MOT (private £££ as you get nothing on NHS at our age ). DP is fine but my amh was 0.07, so we were recommended to go for donor eggs. Signed up with a lovely clinic in August, donor found pretty much straight away. Had donor IVF in November, got a BFP but mc at 6 weeks in Jan. Had an erpc in Feb. Had FET in June, BFN. We really want to try again but are back to the drawing board?. I?m still with the same clinic but would have had to join the waiting list again for a donor (and would have been fourth). Not wanting to wait indefinitely, I opted to try and find my own donor. Posted on MN and a couple of other sites. And less than two weeks later I think I?ve found my gorgeous donor. I was so lucky that a few people came forward to offer their help on my posts and within that group of lovely kind ladies, I?ve found someone who?s a good physical match to me?. So we?re in the process of tests and being matched by the clinic. Its early days but so far so good...

May the sun shine all week!

Can I join in the reminiscing about egg whites? I too remember copious amounts of the stuff (hanging off my wrist at one point ) Now I don't think I ever see it, apart from perhaps a 'glistening' on the tissue. IIRC I didn't have it at all when ds1 and ds2 were conceived (my last 2 conceived late 30's early 40s) so think it can be 'there' without being visible? Obviously did its job anyway! I did think drinking lots of water made a slight difference (something I'd read). I also tried when ttc dc3 actual egg-white (another on-line tip) and then worried obsessiverly about catching salmonella all month (I wasn't pregnant). Tried 'pre-seed' too, which was ok, though very ewww...

In terms of luteal phase length, this is something that I was obsessed with when ttc-ing ds2 (number 5 dc). Mine dropped I swear the month of my 40th birthday from 13 days to around 9 days. The 9 days seemed a regular feature so I started taking agnus castus and after 2 months or so it had lengthened to 11 days which I think is ok. The months I conceived dc5 I had also started taking vit b6 (?) which I think is also used to lengthen LP but obviously as got pregnant that month (10 mths trying) I can't judge the latter's potency. I think if I were to ttc again, I would start up the agnus castus for sure. Oddly now that I'm not ttc my LP varies from 14 to 15 days, just to taunt me I'm sure . I should say that my gp who is quite knowedgable about such things doesn't believe in the whole LP length problem - she believes (as do others) that if an egg is actually fertilised, there is enough progesterone present to support a pregnancy and the LP becomes a non-issue as the body kicks in to pregnancy mode. I'm not sure if I believe it, but I have read that the jury is out on a short LP (ie, shorter than 10 days?) actually being an issue at all in terms of getting and staying pregnant.

Oh and my potted history...I have 5 dcs, dd1 conceived when I was 3 hrs late with the mini pill (age 30), dd2 first month trying (age 31), dd3 (age36) 5 months, mmc at 10 weeks age 39, ds1 4 months (age 39), ds 2 (age 41) 10 months trying, with one early mc (7 weeks) and one chemical pregnancy along the way.
Good to read everyone's stories on here - agree, it's a lovely safe, and very informative space in which to chat!

Cuckwhogirl you can borrow my work uniform if u desire ( I m a real life specialist sister: nurse!!) however, if your hubby gets off on that I m afraid to say he's a bit odd!!! funnily enough Ant's never asked me to wear it !!!!
My potted story : ttc for 4 years in total started at 36 1 MMC at 12 weeks, 1 MC at 8 weeks then the heart breaking loss of my DD at 41 weeks : Georgie stillborn on 10/10/10. Finally after all the heartbreak our true rainbow baby ; Phoebe born 18/10/11. A true angel... Now enjoying not being pg for the first time in 4 years or ttc. Enjoying life again ; holidaying, loosing weight & living.... Bliss..,
I used the cb ovulation tests found them fab know they re pricey but I discovered I was ovulating early (cd10/11) do a big help to me!!!
Hi Diege xxx hope Samuel's ok? Any teeth yet? Phebs none yet!!!
Love to all & all the luck in the world xxxxx

Hell, I'm new, havn't had a chance yet to read about you all but just checking in from the TTC while breastfeeding thread. Will indulge myself soon.

I'm 44, never had to TTc before as DS an 'accident' when I was 41 (born when I was 42) so I'm hoping to learn lots from you guys.

DS just turned 2, I'm just enjoying (yes really) my second AF since Oct '09; ovulated twice and luteal phases 11 and 9 days according to fertility friend - that's good, right?!

Back soon!

Oops sorry for mis spelt name!!!! Crappy I phone

Lovely reading all the life stories. It helps to get know you all a little bit more.

Cuckoo, I'm glad the viagra works. I reckon it will still work at O time - I'd be surprised if it didn't. I can understand how frustrating this is for you. I can remember my DH having trouble "performing" at the crucial time when we were ttc DS, obviously the pressure was just too much, and it wasn't his fault, but wow, I felt so upset by the thought we might miss the fertile window.

As for keeping my cycle a secret, it is fairly easy on the one hand , as DH doesn't take an interest, and when I have AF, I just make other excuses about why I'm not in the mood(and AF only lasts 3 days). But, on the other hand, it does mean I can't suddenly want to shag twice a day for 4 days running at O time. I've had to resolve that by being very relaxed about sex around O time, like last month, only managed it on one day during the fertile time. And the rest of the time I just DTD as regularly as time/energy/life allows.So I use opk's and make sure I get a shag or two in there around O time, and if it falls on the weekend, I might manage a few extras.

Welcome Catdoctor, I hope your ttc journey isn't too long - you'll find a wealth of information and friendship here.

I had a lovely evening out yesterday. I think I might have had about 5 glasses of wine, but don't feel any the worse for it. I've been staying away from wine alot since ttc, but as I've been trying for so long I've decided to have a drink here and there because I need to live my life without ttc hanging over me all the time. I figure it won't be too damaging as it happens so seldom.

Off to work this morning, which isn't easy, mainly because DS seems to be experiencing a new form of separation anxiety (at the age of almost 4) and puts on a great show of being heart-broken every time I go somewhere without him. It's really starting to bother me as it happens every time. I wish he'd stop it, but nothing seems to calm himI hope it improves soon, it's making my nerves all jangly!(I know, that's not a real word but couldn't think of one that fits) I'd love some advice if anyone has some. I may have to search it on mumsnet, but really must dash and get dressed for work...

catdoctor welcome. Just one thing to note. your luteal phase sounds a bit short so you might want to look into lengthening it a bit.

thank you for the detailed answers diege will check out agnus castus thingy and vit b12 and also dr google on luteal lengthening.
cuckoo you are v helpful indeed. i agree about the nurse outfit [laughs] (see below) it does get tiring!

me and DP have DTD 4 times in the run up to ovulation and just felt we'd done enough. so i could be ovulating now but just can't motivate myself . we did do it the day of the LH surge.

i am telling myself it doesn't mean we're less likely to conceive, it just means we're more likely to have a girl.

but maybe i should get that nurses outfit on (we're both at home we work from home).

xx

Crumbs. The heartbreak on these pages. AngelGeorgie I am so sorry for your loss. I simply cannot imagine. What a glorious gift Phoebe must be! Thank you for sharing your story. On a lighter note, I've decided against a nursing outfit. I am a golf widow (this weekend has been utter, utter tedium) and so have decided to dress in tweed pantaloons, a flat cap, harlequin knee socks and offer to 'tee him off' (oo-er).

Hopeful, keep enjoying a drink; alkies and druggies get preggo all the time. Sorry I can't offer any advice about your DCs 'attachment' issues - my mum just used to ignore me if I was freaking out with trails of snot hanging out of my nose (and it worked). If I carried on with my histrionics I'd get a slap (and that definitely worked) Can't do stuff like that anymore, though, I guess! I'm going to try your method of disguising when AF has arrived. My period is light (ish) and brief (ish) so I reckon it's do-able.

Welcome, catdoctor, hope you have success soon..

Diege, spat my tea out twice reading your post. First, when I had visions of EWCM hanging off your wrist and second, when I was reading about your children and mistook 30, 31 and 36 as their ages! I thought 'bloody hell! How old is this woman!? And she might want ANOTHER?!?' Ha! Ha! Thanks for telling us about your lovely family.

Pocket, your story nearly had me in tears, too. To MC after your donor IVF must have felt like a whole bag of shit. I'm so sorry. BUT...! All these wonderful ladies who've stepped forward! How wondrous - and exciting. I hope you have a whole sack of success there (and I hope the same for you, too, Tina). Pocket, what is a FET, please?

Well, I'm only on cycle day 5. I can't stand this boring fortnight before ovulation. Sex feels wasteful and boring because there is no chance of getting pregnant from it; I start worrying that I should be halting my excercise regime (I'm a gym freak) around ovulation in case I dislodge any sperm and then I worry post-ovulation in case I'm dislodging a potential embryo. Tsk! I'm sick of waiting/fretting/waiting...
I started going to the gym seriously after my miscarriage (my philosophy was if Im not going to be pregnant this year I'll fecking-well be thin). I gained 1.5 stone during the pregnancy thanks to having given up smoking and I can't seem to shift it (we made love on the dining table last week to try to spice things up ready for ovulation but all I could focus on was my back-fat slurping against the waxed pine). I must go; I'm dropping carrot cake crumbs all over the keyboard...

It was me that asked about the EWCM - I usually get it on about CD 10 so am wondering if i actually ov a couple of days before I think I do. Usually have a standard 28 day cycle and don't temp or use OPK's as am trying not to get too fixated by it.

Feeling a bit better now after a nice weekend (too much wine but oh well)

Probably only going to drop in and out of here as am trying to ensure I think about other things, but it is good to hear the positive stories. I'm not too old, just need to believe that.

So many emotional stories. but I am so thankful for all your kind words and support

FET is frozen embryo transfer. Btw we had three frosties. One didn't make the thaw. Two did and we put them both in. But nada.

Fx this is the year it all comes together for all of us.

hopefulgum your sex life sounds great.

cuckoo i agree that if not pregnant be thin - thus i'm low-carbing. it's working but my tip is take it carefully - some can tolerate very low or no carbs but if you're not one of those people that can make you feel ill or mental in which case all you need to do is nudge your intake down a bit. i am in the latter category and despite only having one low carb meal a day i have had to blow out on choccy croissant today as i felt so wierd. it actually makes exercise less necessary tho i love exercise x

and i use thin in the loosest possible sense

Pocket, can I ask, when you say they 'put them in' do they actually imlant the embryos for you or do they just plonk them somewhere in the uterus/fallopian tubes and hope they implant themselves? Sorry to sound ignorant. I wish you all the luck in the world with your soon-to-be-found donor egg(s).

Somewhere, I've managed to cut out carbs ALOT: I can't honestly remember the last time I ate a slice of bread or a potato; I've reduced the amount of brown basmati rice I eat and replaced it with quinoa (bor-ring!); and I resolutely refuse to eat pasta anymore - not even wholewheat. My problem is this: I absolutely refuse to give up chocolate. I don't eat crisps or cake (except my own carrot cake which is bloody divine) or drink alcohol. But chocolate I will not give up and I am known to eat four bars a day. I also lead a very sedentary lifestyle. Apart from going to the gym sometimes twice a day I sit on my arse permanently (I'm a freelance editor) and only move to go to the toilet or to put the kettle on. For the last 2½ weeks I've been resting my achilles as I developed tendonitis due to over-exercise - in my quest to lose weight I would go straight from kettle bell class to a four-mile run and then on to an hour's Body pump. If I went circuit training I'd follow that with Body Pump again. It sounds alot...but I really do sit here, day after day, typing and eating chocolate and drinking brews.

I've been wondering today, after talking to my lovely Asian taxi driver (I don't always take taxis - just since I've knackered my achilles) why it is that ladies from his culture seem to effortlessly conceive and have babies well into their late forties. His sister-in-law has just given birth at 47 and his own wife had her last baby at 48 (he says they may have another yet!) He tells me that so many Asian women have babies late that it's simply not seen as a phenomenon and he can't understand why I'm even concerned about turning 41 soon - he says I am young! Has anyone else pondered this about certain cultures? Is it maybe because many of these ladies at 40-plus don't work and hence have less stress in their lives?