TTC Super Ovulation part 2

[suemays]

hey ladies,

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

part 1 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1385998-TTC-Super-Ovulation

Thank you for the response brownstag! At what point in the cycle (if you start tabs on Day 3) do you get a scan?

Ari and Brown I got my results back from serum on day 11, i'd sent it on day 2. With the results they said to email Penny for advice. I did and she emailed back the following (no charge)

ANTIOBITICS TREATMENT
　
The treatment needs to be followed by both partners at the same time.

The antibiotics should be taken after your main meal, in order to avoid digestive problems.
Alcohol intake should be avoided during treatment period.
　
Day 1: 4 pills of zithromax (azithromycin) 250mg* all together preferably with empty stomach
Day 2: NOTHING
Day 3-7: Erythromycin 500mg, 2 tablets/ day, one in the morning and one in the evening. Please avoid dairy products one hour before and one hour after the tablet.
Day 8: 4 pills of zithromax (azithromycin) 250mg* all together preferably with empty stomach
Day 9-24: Erythromycin 500mg, 2 tablets/ day, one in the morning and one in the evening. Please avoid dairy products one hour before and one hour after the tablet.

Day 25: 4 pills of zithromax 250mg* all together preferably with empty stomach

In terms of getting a prescription for these, i followed Agate's advice on fertility friends www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.0 and emailed DoctorFox co.uk but they could only supply one of the two anti b's. Am off to GP today to see if they would be willing to prescribe. If they're not my plan is to email back to Penny at Serum and ask if they can send the prescription, but am expecting them to charge for this - Agate says 100 euros.

I told her I was doing Super Ov with Letrozole and Prednisolone and she said I 'wouldn't necessarily need to stop treatment'. I'm sure Mr S would advise not to stop treatment also. However in my circumstances, i've had this random bleeding ever since i came off the pill that i'd really like to see if that cleared up after anti b's, also i want the peace of mind that these infections have cleared before i carry on ttc. i'll probably have a couple of cycles naturally after they've cleared, just out of interest and then see what to do after that. i do feel at the moment that Mr S identified the symptom, of very high nk cells but not the cause. i did ask him about this and he said 'why do some people develop asthma'. However Dr Gorgy on his website says infections can aggravate the immune system.

i'll be interested in your results, hope you get them back soon.

Betteronacamel i've come to the conclusion that if you can afford monitoring with scans etc its so worth it as its the only way to really know what's happening with ovaries / lining thickness - information is power as they say.

BetteronaCamel, we take them days 2 to 6, and then get a scan between days 10 and 12.
CareBear, that's very interesting, thanks. Did you have more than one infection?, if you don't mind my asking.

Could someone tell me what are the extra tests offered by Dr Gorgy that are not offered by Mr Shehata please.

Welcome betteronacamel, brownstag has answered the question nicely :)

brownstag Well it seems Mr Shehata will pretty much test for whatever you want, as far as my experience last week went, but Dr G does the 'Chicago' tests including the hidden-C .. check out duggs post(s) earlier, I think she listed everything Dr G tested for.

carebear that's really interesting, thanks for your reply. So it is the standard 25-day course of anti-bs then - I'd be very interested to hear if your GP will prescribe any of the anti-bs, I don't know how much they will be privately. I do wonder, you know, whether most people would test positive for one or other of these infections anyway. I rather dread telling OH he has to follow a 25-day course of anti-bs, I suspect he wouldn't take them. Haven't got my results through yet, hoping it will be soon! Watch out for that avoid dairy catch - that means no milk, so no morning cereal unless you use soya milk, of course!

Well I saw the GP and she said the anti-b's were fairly standard and what they would prescribe here for this type of infection, but usually for a shorter period than 25 days. She did say though that the chlamydiae test in particular, would show up any strand or type, and that the NHS thinking over here is that its only one strand of it that's the harmful one (which is the one they test for). She also said that a lot of these bacteria are around and wouldn't necessarily cause any difficulty. She agreed to prescribe them, but just for me, DH will have to go on his own which is a bit of a pain (why is nothing ever simple!). However she did admit she wasn't a fertility specialist and had never heard of immunosuprressants being used in fertility. She calmly received the news I'd posted menstrual blood to Athens, and then about a minute later, the penny dropped and said 'you did what?!!'.

So, I'm still none the wiser but am planning to plough on and take them anyway and see what happens. Still not a gold plated guarantee of success it would seem.

:) to your GP's surprise :) So what will happen with DH, will he be taking the anti-bs as well? I just ask because as I mentioned, I doubt very much my own OH will agree to taking them, which worries me as they say if you have an infection they do too - and if you clear it but they don't, they will just reinfect you! :(

I'm going to make him an appointment at another time in order to get him the prescription. DH has agreed to take them - he knows he would have one huge strop from me if he refused after me taking all these drugs so far - i feel quite strongly its the least he can do! The biggest problem for me is that i doubt he'll manage to stay tee-total for 25 days, and drinking may lessen their effect. I have lectured him about it! However i did read (i think it was in Agate's notes?) that these infections tend to linger longer and are harder to get rid of in females and males. My plan is for us both to do the antib's, to wait until a 2nd period after and then re-test to make sure they are gone, and if they are gone then I'll assume that has treated DH too.

I must admit i'm feeling a bit fed up and just want to get on with it.

sorry that should have read 'in females than males'

Good to hear your DH will take them ... as for strops, well I'm having enough problems getting my OH to go along for his own testing, booked for this Fri morning but he's really not happy about it. Sigh. I read what you did, that these infections last longer in us females than the guys - did you note that sex has to be protected too, while you're taking the anti-bs? Think OH would object to that too!

Crikey, I just scared myself looking up mycoplasma and read this: www.justmommies.com/forums/f1215-pregnancy-loss-and-ttcal-info-spot/2327951-1-3-major-causes-miscarriage-mycoplasma-ureaplasma-and-infertility.html

Not sure what I'll do about my DH taking the antibiotics if necessary. Haven't actually mentioned the Athens test to him. He's not exactly on board with the whole immunosuppressive therapy idea in the first place, let alone something else, even though we had my DS with the aid of it. He thinks our DS was 'just meant to be' and that any doctors dealing in this area are charlatans, with all of us desperate ladies dangling on strings. Needless to say, all this treatment is coming out of my money!

Oh heck brownstag, sounds like you're in a similar position to me then. OH is ok with the immunology side of things, but not particularly enthusiastic about doing anything himself, hence the majority of it is coming out of my money (think he's paid for one scan). And he doesn't know I've sent off for the Athens test, although I have mentioned to him that others have done this. I'll wait for the results before telling him.

Yes, Ari, it makes things even more of an uphill struggle than it already is, doesn't it? And I only work about 2 days a week, so the coffers are going to run dry pretty soon. I think it boils down to the fact that secretly DH would be quite happy with just one child, being an only child himself.

Ari, which DHEA brand do you take and how much?
I ordered some DHEA months ago from Vitasunn; they were supposedly vegetarian capsules but quite a high dose, higher than I would have normally chosen to take (can't remember what it was now) but they worked out the best value and were vegetarian (I'm vegan). But when they arrived (after ages) the ingredients listed gelatine so I sent them back, and they are not on their website any more.
Do you still take coenzyme Q10? I saw on an old thread you were taking it too.
I was also taking saw palmetto, which improved my cervical mucous, but Mr S had never heard of it and told me to stop. It's supposed to be good for general fertility and is also used as an expectorant, which probably explains the effect on cervical mucous, if not a direct hormonal effect.
Plus tonnes of evening primrose oil prior to ovulation.

brownstag Well I've tried two brands, Ultimate Nutrition DHEA from www.prices-power.com/dhea.htm (1 x 25mg 100 tablets and 1 x 50mg 100 tablets) which cost me £36 incl shipping, and the one that everyone says is the best (because there was a research paper done which used this particular brand, for no other reason), the McPherson Labs DHEA (1 x 25mg 60 tablets and 1 x 50mg 90 tablets) which cost me £46 incl. shipping. The Ultimate Nutrition ones took just under a week to get to me, the McPherson Labs ones just over two weeks.

I am just in the process of ordering more, and I have gone back to the Ultimate Nutrition DHEA, for a number of reasons. They're cheaper, in better quantities, the shipping speed is much faster, the customer service was much better (chap emailed me himself to say when he sent the package, and he marked the customs form as "gift" to ensure I didn't pay import duties), and I cannot tell the difference at all on my body - as in, the side effects, minimal though they are, are exactly the same with the two different brands. I'm reassured that both brands seem to be equal in quality - both micronised and both pharmaceutical grade with maximum purity levels (I checked all that out before buying).

To the best of my knowledge both brands are completely vegetarian (as I am veggie myself); the Ultimate Nutrition one does state on their website "100% Pure Synthetic, Not From Animals".

I take what seems to be the general recommended dose by US consultants, 75mg, split into 50mg in the morning and 50mg at night.

Co-enzyme Q10 - yes, I take 600mg a day, 300mg in the morning and 300 at night.

HTH! I rattle, to be honest, with the amount of supplements I take :(

Sorry, meant to say - I wonder whether secretly my own DP would be happy with just the one child even though that child isn't biologically his. I think he'd quite like his own baby, but at the same time he doesn't like the change it will make on our finances ... he likes his holidays every year, his footy season ticket, etc etc. Interesting thought.

Thanks, I'll look into that. After this month on SO I'm going to have a break, but stay on the hydroxy, and possibly start the DHEA. Maybe I'll up the coenzyme Q10 too.
Your DP sounds like a man after my DH's heart. The first thing he said when I suggested another child was 'Will I still be able to play golf twice a week?'!

Bear in mind that DHEA is reported to take 4 months to take effect. I'm heading into the fourth month myself, so cannot say whether it's had any effect on my follies or not. I'm not planning to take it much past 6 months, so that will be Sept for me.

And LOL to the golf .. much the same here, DP still presumes he'll be going off to watch all the footy matches he does at present even if we're lucky enough to have a baby. He's in for a bit of a shock (at least, I hope he is!).

Hi Brownstag Ari just to join in I am also paying for all SO teatment myself and my DH I think would be more than happy to just have the 1 and because I earn more money and due to me being the driving force I don't want him to pay. I rather keep in out of all of the ins and outs. He just needs to do his bit on command which is of course free for him. :). I think it is only in the movies whereby the men sometimes are desperate for a child.

I suspect you're right abney. DP's angle 2 years ago was "we'll just try naturally, no extras, if it happens it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't". Yeah, right - well that didn't work, did it?!

Ari, that was exactly what my DH said too! and Abney, I also keep him out of the ins and outs; to be honest he can't keep track (not surprising really) of what's going on. He doesn't have the same drive to search every nook and cranny of the internet for the most obscure bits of research as I do. In fact his understanding of the menstrual cycle is similar to my understanding of golf, I suppose: our respective eyes just glaze over when it comes up. But then he doesn't have that biological clock ticking very loudly in the background.

Well, just got my results through from Serum - I've tested positive for both chlamydia and ureaplasma :( Which means now the 25-day regime of anti-bs for me and DP, if he'll take them. If I can get a prescription for them! care Did you get your prescriptions sorted out, for you and for DH?

Well, I suppose that's good in a way, isn't it? At least it's some kind of answer. I don't know about you, but I feel I'm always looking for some hidden factor that makes me different from other people! Was it the ordinary chlamydia test or hidden? or didn't they say?
I asked my sister if she would be able to get me the prescriptions as she's a sexual health nurse practitioner, which means she can prescribe, but she said no. (As well as saying poppycock about these so-called hidden infections.)
I'm getting a bit worried they didn't receive my sample as they said it would take 3 days and I sent it on Monday.

It wasn't the "common" variant of chlamydia I've tested positive for, but one of the other strains. The reports they send you are pretty specific though, worth showing to your sister when you get yours. Did you send your sample through Royal Mail? If so it will take longer than 3 days - I think mine took 8 days, might have been 9. It's not the post this side that's the problem, it's the other side!!