TTC 10 plus months, Part 7

[lisacn]

A friendly, supportive thread for those of us who are taking a bloody long little longer time than average to conceive.

bazza it's a minefield isn't it? the diet can't be doing anything bad and has to be helping - your cycles are different aren't they? I am all for diet and woo but ultimately, I also want to get pregnant and I tie myself in knots wondering if it's enough. I don't want drugs of any kind really and you're right a medical and brown diet combo sounds spot on. Maybe she's overdosed on yams? I bet the blues is period related, the theatre will do you good. And 110 a sq metre - ouch! I'm sat here reading the Gluck hormone book.

Thank you for your prompting wine I've now chased the Gluckster to see if I can't get some answers. at overdosing on yams! I can imagine her slumped in a corner now with eyes glazed and yam juice smeared all down her Chanel suit (she has to wear a classic Chanel suit, right?) Yup, my cycles are different since the brown diet - encouraging. Last month AF arrived on CD27 (early for me) and I am CD27 today - no sign. FF says CD31 maybe I will have a proper luteal phase. However, I have had whitish CM before and after OV (still here today) and I read in TCOYF that that is indicative of the PCO - not so encouraging and low progesterone. TCOYF lady says that this is easily cured with progesterone injections, but I bet they don't do those on the NHS, I haven't read anything about progesterone supplement in the NICE guidelines. However, at least I have CM - encouraging. I didn't before and I didn't have a + OPK - more encouraging. But I still have nagging doubts. OH just reminds me to be patient. I'm only into 6th week of brown diet (although 7 wks dairy free and nearly 12 wks booze free). I have to give this 3 months. I know that in my heart. Plus they haven't done the 7 DPO test and by the time they can do that next, it will be the first week of July and le grand SWI is allowed to start at the end of July when I will be 3 months into the brown diet. I'm just holding out that they do the blood test and don't put me straight on to clomid / IUI... They have to do the 7 DPO don't they? I think I'll just have to push for it - at least it's cheap. Sorry for me-ness, am in a bit of a tizz today. How are you feeling anyway? I'm glad that you are feeling better and that you had a positive sesh with the acupuncturist. You will be healed and unduffed in no time at all, it has to be your turn soon :)

Bugger, wine I had a hysteroscopy and did the dirty deed after 3 and a half weeks. Maybe that was a bad idea but nobody told me about infection and waiting 4-6 weeks! I haven't keeled over or anything so I'm guessing it's okay [slightly panicked smiley].
I think you are right to wait and SWI when you feel like you are ready. I do think that your body will let you know. I know that sounds a bit daft. If you still aren't tickety boo there probably won't be any point anyway. It is a shame though to have nice shiney tubes and "no traffic".

euro It is funny, I used to be soooo terrified of the indignities of a smear. Hah! Not sure I would appreciate a gloveless foray into my under carriage though........shudders at repressed memories of an unfortunate GP appointment.

lemons Am happy that you are excited about your job but oh no at the thought of you not being on the fred as much! I get what you mean though about sometimes having an "infertile day" and internet surfing not helping.

princess 110 GBP????? looks up retraining as a plasterer
Woo versus drugs is tough if your heart is drawn to the woo stuff. I definitely am a GIVE ME THE DRUGS type of person but that said if you are happy with the diet and stuff then you ought to pursue it. Can't you do the two in tandem? Personally I would be wary of postponing the NHS appointment because you never know where the next spending cuts are coming, but I am a natural worrier like that.

Helllo ladies/gents just a quick hello to let you know that I haven't run off with an Italian stallion not yet will catch up soon when i aam baack, miss you all, off for more piggy wiggy gelato

Dave can you tell I have nothing to do this afternoon and am waiting for the new project phone call Yes, 110 GBP psqm for a bloody lime plasterer. I know that lime plastering is specialist but crikey it's a helluva lot of money. If I hadn't been burnt by the stuff last time, I too would consider a career change.

So this is where I am. Perhaps not as woo as some of you think... I am not anti drug in any way shape or form but I am skeptical about the NHS fertility solutions and want something else to fall back on. I am also trying to do the diet thing for my general health and crooked hormones as well as baby making. I like to do the tandem thing in general - wisdom tooth infection = anti-biotics and hot salt water; bladder infection = codeine, antibiotics and buckets of water and cranberry juice; cold = lemsip and ginger, honey and lemon drinks. The problem is that I know the above work; I don't think that the success rate for making baby is quite so straight forward. I am not postponing (my mother would flip her lid - even though it's not her bloody decision to make - apparantly I don't have free will at the age of 3 I mean 30) but I'm terrified that because I've been referred on the basis of 'irregular periods' that they will send me away and I will have no explanation for my low progesterone / bobbly ovaries / non-existent posh pram and mini-me. I guess I've waited 3 years for this to get sorted and it seems like such a BIG thing to be so close to the holy grail of answers and if they tell me to eff off, how many more years of mentalling / researching will I have to go through? I've also had some really awful doctors and so my anxiety levels are on the ceiling at the moment. There is of course private where they have to be at least pleasant but if we bite the bullet will they just want to do IVF on me to pay for their next First Class flight to the Carribean? And then I'll be left indebted to my parents (again), possibly still not pregnant and still no answers about my womanly bits which cause me so much jip.

This is best case scenario in my mind: brown diet = helps hormones and makes less ragey for rest of life until 'the change' and drugs = help get me pregnant before the end of this year. Then I can get my whole frigging life back on track and not be left in this awful TTC conundrum for the rest of my days. But I fear that this is the nice simple neat solution and that there is still a long and winding road ahead. Sigh.

Oh I am sorry about the me thing today. What a pitiful state of affairs. The fretting is only going to get worse over the next few days until the bloody boil is lanced on Monday morning. Woo.

Afternoon chaps

Keith loving the name change and I do hope you get to be Keith Preggers soon... bugger about missing the IUI window. One of the many things I do not understand about this business is the stupid 9-5 clinic hours, as though bodies and hormones do not work evenings and weekends. How many more rounds of IUI do you need to do before they put you on the IVF list? Missing one chance may not seem a big deal in the grand scheme of things but when you've been waiting as long as we all have every month counts.

Lemon an enforced month off isn't ideal... I find it so frustrating that there is such a tiny window of opportunity every month. i guess there is always a positive side, at least you will be spared the misery of the 2ww... Good news on the job. Staying off here is probably a good thing - i work from home and have nobody to look over my shoulder and stop me mentalling so I have lots many days hours to Dr Google and fruitless TTC stress.

Critter those Arvon courses look great. I have hankered after them in the past but never quite got the courage, maybe I should give it a go. Seems we have a batch of closet poetry lovers on here! I'm not having trigger shots or monitoring with the clomid, they monitored me the first month but since that indicated I ovulated they have just left me to it. I am charting and OPKing despite having been told not to by the fertility nurse!

Barry I love the idea of FOOFA... there needs to be a prime time BBC1 slot on a saturday night after MOTD in which the delights of TTC are explained in simple terms for unwilling menfolk. Maybe if I dressed up as a football Mr A would take more interest in me. I am surprised at Glucky not getting back to you. I would have thought she'd have a team of receptionists pouncing eagerly on potential new patients. But do you think she will have anything new and radical that the brown goddess has not suggested? I hate to suggest patience since I have absolutely none of it myself but as you are doing so well on the brown diet you could give it the full three months' worth and then look to try a different regime if you feel you need to? I know what you mean about NHS and not wanting the drugs, but they can't force you to have any treatment, you will have a choice whether to take any advice or treatment offered, and you might get tests that will arm you with further information. Unfortunately I'm not sure the holy grail of answers exists. But remember you are a taxpayer responsible for all the mercs and beemers in the car park so technically speaking they work for you...

Wine I am with you on the benefits of acu, I go for the chance to be listened to and understood. Not sure what to do about it longer term though, i've been going twice a month since January and I am skeptical about the physical benefits, £70 a month is a lot to pay for a bit of talking. I might get the same benefits if I just spent the money on shoes. Do you think it's doing you any good aside from having someone to listen? I've no idea how long it should take for acu to work or what should really change.

It looks like we might have the beginnings of a northern meet up

Euro at the pristine foof, though I am not sure the nurse should have proceeded without gloves... perhaps you can answer a stupid question: what does BESH stand for? I have perused the thread, there seems to be a bunch of immensely witty and rather intimidating ladies on there.

Buzzy glad you're enjoying the holiday, I am so at the gelato and the Italian stallions

You are a filthy minded bunch. i am impressed. I shall say no more about the smurf, as the truth could never match up to what has been concocted by your overactive imaginations. And I shall absolutely not attempt to juxtapose the image of a plastic smurf together with that of the sparkly fertility knobs, oh no, I shall not....

Artemis I have been looking for a way back to here and I think you just gave it to me (with your talk of intimating and witty women on a thread). I'm sure no one will remember me by now, was here a few months back, briefly. I never really found a 'thread home' at MN and post nonsense here and there. I love this thread though and read you all often. I've followed the adventures of the brown diet and, holy shit wine what a hell of a time. You are all brave and witty, intimating and hope you don't mind me saying hi. For some reason Princess as Spooks character on the way to the met up keeps popping up in my mind. Not too mention sparkly knobs.

Well, I'm still crap at getting pg. It was wine that asked me how long I had been fruitlessly shagging and the answer had a 10 in it but not the word 'months' if you catch my drift. Anyway that is all about to change obviously. Likely as not just by reading bout brown diets. Onwards.

artemis and wozza, I thoroughly recommend the Arvon courses. They are really amazing - I've done four, all on poetry, and they were all completely brilliant. And I think there is a lot to be said for doing something creative - this whole TTC business is effectively trying to create something, but unsuccessfully, so creating some writing is a real confidence boost, and just generally improves my mental health!

artemis add me to the ranks of those wondering what Papa Smurf was up to on the airbed... I'll never look at him again in the same way! Happy shagging, I am rooting for this to be your month.

princess hope your day is improving and thanks for being so nice - I guess you must only have six weeks or so to go before the 3 month brown diet period is up? It's pretty darn impressive that you've stuck to it. I am in awe. I'm also impressed by your house renovations - I can barely change a light bulb but I fantasise about tiling our backsplash behind the kitchen sink sometimes! I would love to see some photos once it's finished. Did you take 'before' shots?

wozza I'll send you the poem when I get home from work tonight! Would love to chat to you about the Arvon courses - they send out their catalogue in early January, but they probably still have some summer and autumn courses available. I think it's amazing how far you've come in the three weeks, but please continue to be gentle with yourself. It's wonderful that your body is healing so fast, and reassuring, and I have high hopes that this will be a turning point for you on the X Factor ttc journey.

buzzy an effusive gesticulatory Italian wave to you! I am of the gelato-fest.

Dave wow about the nurse and the hysteroscopy. (and princess, I chuckled at the wee!) I would hope that it was indeed because they can be painful, and not because they are grossed out. For the record, my pal who is a nurse says the nastiest thing she's had to do yet was to fish out a long-forgotten mouldering tampon

euro thanks for the belly roll injection tip! I'll remember that next Friday, that is really useful! John Hegley is fab - I love his 'talking about my feelings isn't my cup of tea' poem. I haven't seen him live, but I bet he's great.

lemons step away from the IF blogs! Hang out with us instead! Too much gloomy computer time can be like eating too many crisps, you can't stop yourself but it doesn't make you feel good - I definitely have fallen down that rabbit hole a few times. And yay that you're going to do some poems - I love it! Gin suggested that we put together a 10+ers anthology of TTC woe that can pay for all our treatment.

carrie - sorry you're having a rough time - I hope tomorrow is better.

Waves to gin, teu, beryl, lady, sarlat, mrsden and keith, and all our other lovely 10 plusers and lurkers. I'm going to a beer tasting tonight, which I'm very excited about. I'm not a big beer drinker, but it's absolutely gorgeous outside today, and the bar that's having the event has a roof deck.

I'm back . Had a lovely holiday. Where do I start trying to catch up though? .

We'll I'll start by asking a question. Had my HSG on day 7 of my cycle. Think I ovulated around day 14 or 15. Had plenty of sex between those days. Then on day 16, started spotting, and had a full on ERTD by about day 20, finished in normal timescales so was at least a week early. I tried hard not to obsess over dates as I was on holiday, but has anyone else had their cycle completely buggered up by the HSG?

Anyway I assume I'm back to normal now and in which case already on CD 7 or something, but frankly who knows. I won't go into details of the many tortured conversations that have happened in my head in the last 2 weeks.

Right, will try to do some reading but can't promise a catch-up reply!

Yes Muddy I had the HSG two months ago and up to that point I was regular as clockwork every 28 days. I had my first af at 24 days and the next the same. This is my third, I am on clomid and now day 30 and no Af and BFN. Going to wait until next week and if a no show I will check with the docs. I have a feeling it will appear tonight

Muddy I had one a while back. My cycles didn't change. Sounds like you possibly ovulated earlier than you thought? Tortured conversations, I can relate.

Morning 10 + TTCers :)
Artemis Thank you for your kind words. I think patience is the key... just something I don't have a lot of. I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, And I want it now....
Purple Hello! I remember you, I hope that you don't find this an intimidating place? I don't think anyone here would want you to feel intimidated. We are all going through this awful journey together, hands held and tail feathers high. I'm sorry it's an extra long journey for you. I admire your tenacity and bravery. I'm glad to see you back here anyway. Hope you are ok.
Nelly Welcome back! Nice to see you :) Sorry to hear about the buggered up cycles and tortured conversations. I hope hobble is well.
Critter We have taken lots of before and during shots, in fact we're recording it all. No after shots just yet but things are going in that direction. I hope you enjoyed the beer tasting in the glorious weather. We're having a strange storm day over here in the UK, we're forecast high winds / gales and rain today and then bright sun tomorrow - ah the great British weather!

In other news, I'm very sorry about my 'me' tirade yesterday. I have taken some big deep breaths, belly laughed at the Theatre last night which sorted me right out. Avenue Q was soooo funny - puppets singing about porn, purpose in life and relationship problems.

ERTD is still not here, which I'm actually viewing as very positive because I would like to see a proper luteal phase. My temp was higher this morning, which should mean that it won't be here today (if the TCOYF lady is correct) as I'm not feeling ill or feverish. We have found a cost effective solution to the plastering too, so I'm feeling better about the house now. Still anxious about Monday but it was always going to be that way, so I'm just going to keep myself busy and weather the storm.

Hope everyone has a great day, tail feather preening, love and hugs for you all xxxx

Hay

Princess - know what you mean about feeling in a 'tizz' about different treatment approaches. NHS v's more natural approaches. It's really hard to trust your own instincts as both sides manage to give good arguments for their systems. I am batteling my preference which is to continue some natural cycles with frozen embryo transfers versus nasty Dr preference and loads of studies which say get tubes out. . I think it is important to follow instincts as far as possible.

Purple - hello and welcome back.

Euro - friend who got preggers without sex?? The mind boggles

Dave - sorry about the missed cycle. Very frustrating. But I use to have this theory....if a cycle was missed then that paved the way for a better conception opportunity next cylce. My theroy is that any near miss conception activity does not have to be processed by the body so next month you will have a clean and shiney baby friendly body. Does that make sense? This isn't anything I have read by the way just one of my own crazy, non sensicle theories. But you never know.

Carrie - Sop sorry about BFN. It's crapsticks. How frustrating for you now your cycle has gone a bit crazy. Hope it settles very soon.

Artemis - Good luck for shag week and yay about meet up.

Wine - yay for meet up. I know what you mean about acu people making you feel your feelings are validated. This is a very important part of the journey in my opinion and may enable us to keep going and achieve success.

Keith - Can't beleive the clinic wasn't open to do your IUI. How irresponsible of them and how annoying for you. So much work goes in to these things. Will you get a refund / an extra cycle? Gahhhh.

Pete - thanks so much for your poem. I love it and you are a talented lady. Keep writing. Have you considered publishing a collection of TTC poems? It would lighten up the lives of lots of women. And good luck for this cycle.

Lemon - Congrats on your new job. How exciting and how brilliant to achieve something outside of all this TTC malarkey. Sorry about the 'infertility days' but I really know what you mean. I spend far too much time reseraching and getting more miserable as a result.

Nelly - glad you had a great holiday. Sorry about the weird cycle. Hope it behaves very soon.

Hello to everybody else.

Northern meet up. So far there is Sarlat (me), Wine and Artemis. Did someone else say they were very far north?? Anyone else? Due to Wine's reduced activity would it be better if we aim to meet up in July or August? I was thinking we could meet one Saturday afternnon in Leeds?? We could go somewhere relaxed for a meal and drinks (alcoholic or not). These are just some preliminary suggestions. Please add futher ideas and options.

Thank you everyone for the massive support with my tubal dilemas. My instincts and sensible part of the brain wants to do a few FET's without surgery / tubal removal first. I am basing this on the fact that I have conceived before, I appear to have small hydrosalpinxes apparantly (the fluid filled bits of the tubes) and I don't think I get any mid month tubal discharge. I also found a study which tracked 4 women with hydrosalpinx who couldn't have surgery for various reasons. They all had failed fresh cycles but were all succesful with FET and the thinking behind this was they didn't have the stimulating drugs in their systems which can make hydrosalpinxs's bigger / more active.

I have a new consultant and I am going to put this to her. I have to be prepared for the fact that she might fight me and insist on the surgery. I don't know what I will do in this case. It's all very frightening. Having a failed IVF cycle is stresful enough without the fear of all this rubbish. I am going to ask the new Dr to look at me as someone who doesn't need to get an instant result but what would my chances be over a few cycles. Luckily I do have 5 blasts in the freezer - assuming the thawing goes ok.

The other thing I'm going to ask is if the tubes can be drained (not common procedure) and if I can have antibiotics at point of transfer. When I conceived naturally 2 years a go, I had been on antibiotics. This has been the only common denominator in the one cycle where I have conceived. I wonder if the antibiotics helped to reduce infection and help inplantation?? Anyone else got thoughts on antibiotics or had a smiliar experience?

I am truely sick to death of feeling scared. I hope the concultation makes me feel positive again.

Welcome back Purple.

The HSG didn't do anything to my cycles. I don't see why it should as it doesn't do anything hormonal, so I would get it checked it.

sarlat remember the embryos are your embryos and it is your body. The drs are there to advise you, but you are the decision-maker. Llisten to their advice, but don't let them bully you into something you are not comfortable with. You responded well to IVF and have 5 blasts to use. If your dr is not willing to do FET as things stand, find somewhere that will. Frozen embies can be transported from one clinic to another apparently (that's what King's told me when they were moving - they can move frozen embies but not fresh ones).

Busy on here this week.
sarlat I'm sorry you feel so scared. I agree with Euro, your body, your decision.
wine glad you are getting better.
cheggers bummer about missing the IUI. How frustrating.
Barry at flapping around in pjs to work at home. Sounds like us, leave the getting up to the last minute. Shivers at living with ILs. Staying with them on hols is bad enough. Ooh and power tools, Mr Teu won't let me have those. He's worried about what I will do. Remembers the demise of a cypress tree while Mr Teu nursed a hangover
Pete I'm intrigued by the poem. May I read it too?
Artemis I not so secret MNer too. Puter in the corner of the living room, which is interesting when I start laughing about somethign written. MrTeu slightly horrified that I'm even on here and decided I'm obviously going dotty when I tried telling him about tail feathers. at the Lineker/Hansen commentary.

Feelign brighter this week. We had a huge snow storm which shut the city down at lunch on Wednesday. I love snow . All gone now though. Treacle is very apt, I see a lovely lady every fortnight who gets it all in perspective. Dave The dress issue was because we did the family bash in January but it ended up being a day that ticked the boxes for everyone else and not really for us. We only gave the family 24 hours notice when we got married in NZ slightly deliberate so it was our end of the 'bargain'. Tis shag week here too. Hope MrTeu is ready

Waves to all, especially those I've missed.

I am north but more Middlesbrough way

Back at work today. Still not caught up but confused by all the men on our thread now. Also - the northern meet is still about 3 hours south of me.

Thank you Euro for you very sensible and calming advice.

Carrie - it would be great if you could come too. Are there good train links in to Leeds or York maybe? Thinking of Wine in Manchester too and I think Leeds is easier to get to than York??

Welly - that is a shame that you are still so far away. But if anyone has suggstions for another location, I would try and be flexible.

Take your time wozza! And then take advantaged of the spring cleaned womb and happy healthy body. Same to barry. It is not long til the end of July and then you can get back on the wagon. Massive good luck for Monday.

So sorry you found us intimidating purple although we have gone slightly mad with tail feathers, men and smurf stories. But really, we are a nice bunch.

Good to hear you're seeing someone who helps regularly, teuchter, and that you are feeling a bit brighter!

Good advice from euro (can you tell the lawyer ) to sarlat. And you sound a bit more calm about it now. Being in a a tizz is to be expected though. And you should feel free to off-load here.

Loving the idea of a TTC antology gin and pete. I am jealous of the courses. No way I am allowed that much time off in the new job. So maybe next year, although of course I'll be diffed by then.

Right, having a bit of a TTC-woe day, so considering a run between the rain, but the weather is totally unpredictable at the moment, wind, sun, rain, more of the above in quick succession...

Waves to all you lovely ladies at the end of a very short but crazy week.

Popping on to say I'd love to be involved in the plans for the Northern meet up, Leeds works well for me too.

I will get back here properly soon, and pay more attention to smurf stories and try to remember who all the blokes are now, I promise. But after going from a fairly mundane existence my home life has developed into something of a soap opera. In short, family feuds coming from nowhere and being blown out of all proportion with me in the middle because I hate confrontation and we also have an unexpected lodger (SIL) for the foreseeable future. Tears and tantrums all around - but none of them mine!!

And in TTC news, after thinking we had another 6 months to wait for NHS funding - the nurse called to say we're at the top of the list and can start whenever we like. I couldn't believe it. So we've been to sign the paperwork but have decided to wait until August as we've got a busy couple of months coming up and it gives us 80 days to get fitter and healthier than we are right now!

Just wanted to let pete know that I am finding solace in writing (terrible, I totally lost the skill...) poetry about the turmoil of feeling I am going through at the moment (two years TTC, two 1st birthdays and an impending birth all clustered in June leads to excessive :( feelings)

Sarlat Glad that you feel better. euro always has top notch sensible advice. I hope that you have a productive consultation, which throws up some solutions that you are happier with / less drastic. Perhaps a lady consultant will be more sensitive to the situation.

LadyG What fantastic news! You must be thrilled, excited and scared all at the same time. Sorry to hear about the bollox on the home front. Will be thinking of you over the next few months.

Teu Glad to hear you have someone positive to talk to. OH had a life coach years ago who sorted him out a treat (suffers periodically from manic depression) and gave hims some great coping techniques. It really does make all the difference. Also glad that your job is going well and that you had snow (snow in June just seems bizarre!) in the week. One of the best things about going skiing is seeing a bright white landscape, I find it very tranquil and calming to look at. Also, and I may be wrong, but aren't Cypress Trees generally quite large? I think the power chisel is about as power tooled up as I can go, hats off to tree surgery!

Lemons sorry to hear that you've got a rubbish / stressful month ahead. Hope that the writing proves to be a good outlet. I find just posting how I'm feeling on here to be very cathartic. I know that the end of July is no time. I think I was just in a funny mood yesterday and managed to wind myself up about the appointment and everything else. It's so great to have so much support on here. I'm feeling massively better today.

Euro I forgot to mention your nurse fondle yesterday. Very brave. I'm not sure how I would have felt, so intimate! Still as you say smear's are nothing compared to the rest of the TTC lark. And I still remember (too vividly) the morning my GP got up close and personal with a magnifying glass.

I'm v. of the Northern meet up. I can't wait for the virtual party that goes alongside the meet up. The last one was so funny!

Hi all

Welcome back to Purple... i surely do remember you and your epic adventures in TTC (I won't say 'journey' for fear of x factor analogy. I feel like the Susan Boyle of TTC, though perhaps that's inappropriate as SuBo got there in the end... maybe one of the more deluded ones that couldn't carry a tune in a bucket but thinks they're going to be a star)... how are you doing? I can't remember if you were having treatment or going the natural wait and see route? As Lemon says I think we are a bit mental sometimes but that just goes with the territory, it's not meant to be intimidating. Any other lurkers out there? Drop in and say hello!

Critter oooh beer tasting, how was it? DP has just come home from work via a supermarket 3 for 2, I am trying so hard to stay teetotal but I am sure a little taste won't hurt I can always pretend I'm going to spit it out

Sarlat - what Euro said. It is your body and your decision. Euro always has tip top advice.

Teu glad you are feeling brighter and have someone to talk to. It does make all the difference. Good luck with shag week... I too have failed to describe online forum comedy to Mr A. I was attempting to explain the concept of 'falling on a cock' yesterday (don't know who I have to thank for that one!) and he just looked horrified. Maybe he thought that was going to be my next approach to shag week

Lady great news on NHS funding, is that for IVF? Bugger about the family drama, hope you can sit on the fence and ignore it.

Lemon sorry to hear about the stress... poetry is quite cathartic. I wrote quite a lot after my dad died, it was the only way I could process it, though nothing I wrote has seen the light of day since and i am out of the habit of writing for anything other than work. Births and first birthdays sound crap. A relative of MrA is due to give birth any time. It will be her 6th child. Yes you read that right. I think by now they just drop out without touching the sides. In my meaner moments I expect they probably get in the same way

Princess glad you are feeling better. I hate the turmoil, there doesn't ever seem to be a clear path through making a decision. Glad you found a sensibly priced plasterer and hope that means you can avoid the horror of living with the in-laws :)

Hurrah for northern meet up beginning to take shape... a Saturday in Leeds is our starter for ten. Would anyone like to pitch in an alternative or should I start PMing about venues and dates? Southern 10+ers obviously welcome if your passport is valid and you are brave enough to make the trek!

Forgot to say welcome back to Nelly too! Glad you had a good holiday. Waves to lurkers and anyone else I've missed

Will be back on later just a quick one to say spotting has started :(
I've had a look and Leeds is still 2 hours away and a couple of changes for me so will give the meet up a miss