Charters Anonymous : Volume 2

[chocciechip]

Volume 2 starts here ladies!

Hi split, yes 1st, thanks tho' that's reassuring. I've joined an antenatal thread now. Will keep popping in....good luck xx [emotional]

D+C today (I refuse to denigrate our lost hopes and dreams to that hideously "you meant nothing" phrase Products of Conception - find it highly dismissive and offensive).

Demanded the discharge forms and got myself out of there the second I came round because some insensitive idiotic cow had brought her baby along with her for her proceedure - so I came round basically to shouts of "MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA MAMA" for about 30 minutes - waking up having lost my hope of becoming that, to that sound... no way was I staying around and listening to it and the staff had zero sympathy when I said why I wanted to leave ASAP. So sod it, I discharged myself and went to Ikea (nearly passed out there but bollocks) - wanted some clean fresh sheets that haven't been tainted by the aura of waiting for miscarriage or failure to concieve.

Stupid fucking up themselves parents who just have zero sympathy or empathy for anyone - you were coming in to a ward where you, and all those on there were LOSING babies - of COURSE we all wanted to see yours and worship at the shrine of your uterus. I fucking hate the world.

Had to love the nurses refusing to remove the crap in my hand in an effort to keep me there longer against my will. In the end I gave them the choice of doing it within the next 15 minutes or I was going to do it myself. Wasn't nasty or anything - just sick of the foraging around my hoo-hah, and the badly done empathy and people flipping touching your arm in sympathy without considering that you might not actually WANT to be touched.

Don't worry - I'm not going anywhere near children or small animals to scare them in the next decade. Have now sent hubby to Tesco to buy feminine sanitary products - bless him - he's gone to try... I expect him to return with sausages or something.

Sorry to hear you had such a shit time today empty FWIW I had to take DD in with me last time I MC as I had no childcare. I don't think she enjoyed it much either.

Are you going to start charting again?

Why bother? Next one will only die again anyway.

No one should have to come round from saying goodbye to their baby to some brat shrieking mama mama (and being egged on by Mrs Idiot). If I'd have been allowed off the bed I'd have gone and punched the cow.

Seriously - of all the fucking insensitive moronic places to take a baby - to a place where women are saying goodbye to theirs. I'm so angry about that, and about how I was made to feel unreasonable for being bothered by it.

hmmm well empty, if that's how you feel then I guess there is no point trying again. It seems a shame when you spent all that time & effort to get your BMI down, which you said you thought attributed to your fertility returning? But you are only 35(?), so plenty of time left.

In the meantime, I hope you and your DH are getting some quality time together to grieve your loss

Ell & ladyggg how are you both getting on? Hope you are both taking it easy with plenty of "me" time & red wine? ('tis medicinal you know )

orchid I had a look back through my charts, my my temps are so up-and-down that it looks like I have several implantation dips every cycle - even when I didn't O!

spilt, newyearsday & babyV - so glad to hear you are getting on ok (although the sharp pains sound scary!)

hippy I'm not sure how you & DH are going to manage SWI in a caravan with kids, but Good Luck! If you get lucky the child will have to have the middle name "Caravan"! THEY ARE THE RULES

Oh empty . Please please get some help with this, please get yourself some counselling, whatever you need because I really do think you need it. I am sorry you had such a shit time today. You didn't need that.

Empty I'm sorry you had such a bad time. At least now it is over and you can move on. There is a very good chance that the next baby will be ok, please don't give up hope. But I agree it sounds like you need to work through some of the grief and anger you are feeling in RL.

Bessie I'm ok thanks. Some days better than others. Me and miniG have decamped to my Mothers so she has been looking after me a bit. Ready to return home tomorrow though! The bleeding has gone prety much completely now so will start the charting again and might even try a very casual SWI at weekend if brave/pissed enough!

Hello charters,
Am returning from my three week absence on mn.
Sorry to hear your news ladyggg. We have similar situations, am also 32 with 2yo ds and worried about increasing gap. I've had 2 mcs so understand the whole starting again thing too.

Haven't ovulated any earlier this cycle so far so am looking out for a temp rise on Tuesday. Have decided to resist opk's this cycle as it just lengthens the wait for af even more, at least after waiting for three high temps to confirm ov I'm already into the 2ww.

Found out something a little interesting at my last acupuncture appointment. I have fluctuating temps (can jump from 36.0 to 36.3 then back to 36.0) in my follicular phase, which could suggest that stress is affecting my hormone production. Didn't think I was that stressed but having fluctuating hormones indicates it's taking my body a while to chug out enough oestrogen to ripen a follicle.

Have taken up running again and hoping it will help even my hormones out a bit.

chocciechip* very interesting post on your q&a with the fc. Thank you for that.

My Chart

hello all, been away fpr the week.

empty I am so sorry Thursday was made more difficult by the circumstances, it was never going to be easy but you didn't need that. I am glad that you will get some investigation into what is going on and I also agree that counseling would be a good idea, you have been through so much and are obviously very angry with the world.

lady I'm glad things are getting a little better and that you had a nice time at your mums.

hippy belatedly wishing you a nice holiday, laughing at the idea of you managing to SWI in a caravan, think we will need to give you a medal if you do!

orchid no idea about implantation dips as so new to this but is there such a thing as an implantation spike?

It might just be due to being later in the morning but I don't think I've ever tempted this high. Also I was wondering should I adjust the time back to UK time? Obviously haven't been away for long enough for my body clock to adjust to a 1 hr time difference so have just knocked an hour off, do you think that was the right thing to do? Its all out of wack anyway as I am pretty sure I OVed 2 days after FF is indicating.

sorry digitalgirl, cross posts. I didn't know that about fluctuating temps. I thought it was normal for them to go up and down. Mine were very flat last month but more up and down this month and I have been quite stressed (bad FC appointment and work travel) so wonder if thats why. Interesting....

I don't know if you guys realize just how offensively you come across implying I'm somehow reacting inappropriately, or a freak of nature because I don't slot into some kind of serene "oh look my next two babies have died (it was twins), I'll just sit and be a human doormat" mould.

How I'm reacting, what I'm feeling is perfectly normal - I'm just not prepared to hide away in shame and take society screwing me up the arsehole as some kind of human doormat.

It's INCREDIBLY offensive to suggest I'm grieving inappropriately and need counselling.

Bye.

Sorry you feel that way empty that wasn't what I was saying at all. There is no such thing as grieving inappropriately, everyone does it differently. I don't think you NEED counseling, if that's not what you want. You are obviously and understandably very upset by what has happened and talking to someone about it might help you to deal with it. If you would rather deal with the grieving process in your own way then thats up to you. I'm VERY sorry to have offended you, its just that I don't see my friends and family who have benefited from counseling at different times in their lives as freaks so don't think of it as an insult :(

Empty Noone at ALL is suggesting you are grieving inappropriately. But anger is a part of "normal" grief. Whatever that is. You have alluded to ending it all on other posts. You have expressed rage. I can understand this is a really hard time, I can understand these thoughts. They are not abnormal or inappropriate. But counselling is really helpful in helping you to work through your grief and come to terms with your loss. Just like when my Father died. It helps. And to suggest something that might help to someone who is so obviously hurting is not offensive. It is the human thing to do.

Well I don't want your stupid suggestions. What's counselling going to do? Shove them both back up there with a heartbeat?!

I resent deeply the implication that I'm out of line or unstable - because I fucking well hurt that I've lost three children in three months. I'm normal - just because I'm not going quietly into the night, smiling sweetly and pretending the world's an awesome place - I'm going with a fight and I'm not going to hide away what happened to my babies in shame.

I don't need counselling - I know what happened. I need do-gooders to keep their noses out of my freaking business when they don't know what I'm feeling or how I'm handling things. If I want to fall apart - I'm hurting no one else if I'm not even going out of the house until I'm sure that storm's cleared the horizon.

And I'm entitled to be angry - I'm entitled to be angry at the hospital staff who butchered putting the canula in my hand so it's black and blue today, I'm entitled to be angry at the insenstive cow who brought her brat along to make everyone else's miscarriages even more hellish, and I'm entitled to be angry at the idiot along the street with the world's most annoying barking dog (that can't even bark properly because it squeaks at 6am). I'm doing no one any harm - now get off my chuffing case and leave me alone.

Hell it's not as if I'm even cluttering up the planet's resources with children - so I can't be doing any harm can I?

The last thing I need right now is yoghurt knitting do-gooder counsellors trying to poke inside my head and figure me out. What's "working through my grief" going to do? My children died, my body failed (and the NHS left me, and them, to rot for a month before they decided to sort it out)... I'm not thick - surprisingly I'm rather pissed off about the injustice in the world - I'm also pissed off about my football team's league position and the fact my car's broken - counselling wouldn't help with those either.

If I ended it all - would be a choice I made freely and willingly and in full awareness of the implications. At least I respect those who take that course of action do so as such and aren't some kind of freaks or problems needing sorting out.

Talking does naff all.

salad by the looks of your chart I reckon you ov'ed cd14 too.

empty I think you are being quite rude to the lovely ladies on here who are offering you nothing but support and love, and are trying to help you with suggestions of what has helped them in similar situations.

If you don't want people's opinions or suggestions why do you continue to
post here? What do you want from us?

salad not sure what to do about compensating for time difference, but I agree with digi & think it looks like you O'd around CD14/15 (coz of temp shift + dry up)

digi How (where) do you take your temp? My oral temps wobble around alot too, so I started taking them vaginally & was pleased to find they were more stable (I must sleep with my mouth wide open some nights!) Well done for starting running again, I find it's a brilliant de-stresser & getting the blood pumping round your body like that has got to be a good thing!

ladyggg am glad to hear you have been pampered at your mums, hope your DH continues this when you get home!

Excuse the hijack.

Empty I've read numerous posts/threads of yours. I'm a decent person and therefore I'm naturally sympathetic to your recent miscarriages, and before that to your struggle with conceiving. I've read so many messages of concern and support that you have "bit back at" or just ignored, and threads you've disappeared from leaving people worried for your emotional or physical safety.

If how you write is truly indicative of how you feel and "where you're at", in my opinion you are nowhere near ready to be a parent emotionally. I hope your physical recovery is quick but I think you have MUCH further to go psychologically before you could cope with motherhood.

There is no such thing as an inherently happy or positive person; we all have the choice to be that person. We choose every day how we will react to each challenge we encounter.

I seem to recall you are a teacher or involved in teaching in some way. If I'm right, I find that frankly terrifying.

salad I would agree with bessie and digi that it looks like you ov'd day 14-15. The dashed lines mean FF isn't sure, and that's three of us who think it's wrong.

Sadly of course it means a bit longer for you to wait...

Digi don't think I replied to you before. Yes, sounds like we have very similar situations. I've been meaning to go for a run again too. I did the Paris Marathon in April but have completely tailed off with ttc and the pregnancy/mc etc. Right, you've inspired me, going back out tomorrow. Always used to find was best thing for stress.

Bessie I did have a nice time at Mum's and DP is looking after me, thanks.

Salad think I would concur with day 14...hope it's a lucky month for you!

Bessie orally but I don't think leaving my mouth open is making a difference. I used to think it was higher on the mornings I'd co-slept with ds, but I've had some really low temps this cycle where I've had him practically lying over my head while I take my temp!

salad in sympathy i am also having dodgy ff ov-stimate too. Seems to think I hatched 3 days ago but am quite sure that it's more likely it's happening today (poss yesterday but cervix still v soft and open today).

Still for me if it did happen today then I would be very happy as that's a whole two days earlier than last cycle!

jolls hello! Well put, but hopefully es has switched the computer off to deal with her anger and grief in another way. I do hope no-one here is really taking it personally.

Hi everyone, just to let you know I'm still doing ok... I've been following orders and drinking red wine a plenty!

ladyggg glad you are being looked after.

I've got a bit of an issue I think I'd like your thoughts on as it's worrying me a bit. DH and I haven't had nooky since the ectopic which is now 3 weeks ago. I know it's probably still early days but I don't feel at all ready. For a year, most of our sex was With Intent- as you can probably relate to... and before that, contraception was mostly condoms as I hate what the pill does to me (lose libido) so there was always that thought in the back of my mind - 'I might get pregnant'. Now though, I can never get pregnant. I feel like every time we have sex from now on, it'll just be a reminder of what I'm not capable of and it'll make me feel sad and I won't enjoy it. I'm not sure what to do- whether time will help or talking to a specialist counsellor?

Sorry- dumb phone only lets me write a certain amount...

Apart from that one issue, I'm feeling pretty good about the future. I have lots of ideas and areas of interest to persue and of course 2 DDs to preoccupy me.

I'm really sorry to ask for help on this thread as it's not at all charting related or even TTC related but I've not ventured further into mumsnet yet and feel I can trust you guys. I'm even slightly regretting asking you as it's not something you should all be worrying about! You all need to be obsessing together about charts and pg signs and testing too early!

It's probably way too late for me to be posting... Tiredness is not helping my emotional state! Ignore me. I'll be fine

Morning Ell!

I reckon that sounds a great idea (specialist counselling). I hear what you are saying about it still being early etc, but you could always look at it as being sort of proactive rather than fixing iyswim? Great to hear you are feeling really positive and have lots of other stuff going on. And keep posting, we'd hate you to leave!