Thinking of not giving my son his main present.

[MrsPeregrine]

This year my son was going to get a new bike. It’s a brand new Frog one and it cost me £499, a lot more than I would normally spend on one Christmas present, but his current bike is a 3rd or 4th hand one that is heavy and stiff so difficult to ride, doesn’t have gear etc. He has other presents that he will be getting too.

However, his behaviour towards the whole family hasn’t been great at times and yesterday was particularly bad. He’s 9. This morning I woke up to him walking in our room asking if he could go on an elf hunt with his sister. I told him not to wake her up and he ended up shouting at us both and calling me a bitch and telling me I’m a rude shit several times.

Im absolutely disgusted and this behaviour is on another level to how he has been previously. I worry about what he will be like when he is older and him terrorising us in our own home. We live in a terraced house and he knows we worry about annoying the neighbours by being too noisy so if we tell him off he starts shouting and it gets louder and louder. He hit me yesterday. His sister who is 7 has never sworn at us or hit us and is generally very well behaved. She knows my son is getting a bike this year and I stupidly told him that he is getting a big present this year - which I regret now.

I just think after the way he has behaved and spoken to me this morning he doesn’t deserve it snd it’s like we will be rewarding his bad behaviour so will send the wrong message. His birthday is in April so we could save it for then. At the same time I dont want there to be a big fall out or upset tomorrow as it would ruin the day for my daughter and I don’t want him shouting and yelling when our neighbours are trying to have a peaceful day too.

What would you do?

Wish I had added a poll now and have just tried to edit my post to add one but it won’t let me.

Exactly. Quit the gentle parenting nonsense.

I did very similar years ago, repeatedly, when my own was a youngster. When time was tight the sentence, I love you but I do not like your behaviour, or something very similar was my go to response along with a hug calming hair stroke or similar (some don’t like hair being stroked). A hug helps them to pause lashing out I was told. It wasn’t an overnight change but it was nicer for everyone and especially my other DC who I could see was being negatively affected. Just another thing to add to those responses already made in the hope it helps.

The bike would go back and a cheaper new bike would be bought anyway. However what immediate consequences are there fore him when he speaks to you in such a way or misbehaves. A future threat means nothing to kids especially if they are immature. It needs an instant punishment or consequence.

You really need to check his internet. In fact I’d be thinking about a week with no internet as a consequence for the bad language in any event.

that sounds like radicalised anti woman language…

Punishment should have been immediate, told off for bad language, for that I would've removed devices for the day and they would be given jobs/ extra homework to do. Then a discussion on why his behaviour isn't acceptable, when yhings are calmer and future ramifications should it happen again.
I'm on the fence about giving the present as wouldn't want to ruin Christmas.

Had exactly the same with my youngest son when he was around 8-9. Turned out it was puberty- after trying all sorts of things to manage it. Thought he had been abused by someone, was being bullied, all sorts of terrible things that would explain the almost overnight change in my darling boy. Was two years of absolute hell, on and off, and eventually it settled down but it took every ounce of love and self possession to not batter him senseless during this time if I’m completely honest. Something we have never resorted to as had to find a way to talk things through with a child who was experiencing huge bodily changes that he wasn’t able to recognise as contributing to his behaviour. It’s great now he is an adult and very loving etc, we laugh about how difficult those years were now but it will be consistent management if this behaviour continues that will help him develop into maturity eventually. What worked for us was- Lots of saying - I love you but I don’t love your behaviour- it’s completely unacceptable- over and over. Explain why it’s not acceptable. Provide choices, for example, saying that because he choose to do x is the reason y won’t happen. Ask if next time he can make a better choice so he is happier with the outcome. Follow through on consequences. Stay calm. Ignore minor stuff and praise anything good no matter how small. Best of luck- it is bloody hard!

No. This is more than puberty.
Every child goes through puberty.
Not every child calls their mother a "bitch" and hits her. That's crossed a line.
The OP needs to find out why he thinks this kind of language is acceptable, and why violence has started.

My son has started secondary and there are plenty saying bitch and slag which is just unbelievable to me but it's happens and I don't believe any reflection of OP.

Let him have the bike. Address this issue separately. It's appalling for him to say this. But he's heard it from peers / TV/ somewhere. He knows it's bad but possibly doesn't realise the full extent.

Could well be any number of reasons- I’m not diagnosing OPs child. Just sharing a similar experience.

There are plenty saying bitch and slag
Maybe, but most parents would want to put a stop to it, and question why their child thinks that's acceptable.

Ask you DH to respond to DS if he speaks terribly to you.
Would your son benefit from more father/son time?His Dad is a good man and a good role model..
Can your husband go bike riding with son each day?

Does he have space to be naughty? If everyone is nice and well behaved perhaps he feels unsafe in expressing parts of his character, or he feels under pressure to be 'good'. It doesn't come as easily to everyone. Perhaps he doesn't respect parenting based on rewarding good behaviour, it would just feel like control. In which case it wouldn't help to withhold the bike. That's not the kind of parenting he would respond to. Does he have the space to be who he is? Is the culture realistic and not overly sanctimonious? Does he feel shamed by or compared to his sister? Even if not deliberate.

Oh perhaps I misunderstood that part. It's just everyone has been referring to him as her husband, rather than DS's dad, and OP herself talks like he's not part of the equation of deciding what to do here. That's what gave me the impression of stepdad.

I’d give him the bike, but tell him that unless his behaviour improves dramatically, you will take it off him and sell it. It was very expensive so someone will quickly snap it up 2nd hand.

But you will have to mean it!!!

The bike isn’t leverage. There’s overwhelming evidence from research that external motivators are counter productive and are demotivators. Primarily because the person being bribed or punished (“do this and you get that”) focuses on the bribe or the punishment, not the outcome desired by the person providing the bribe or punishment. The behaviour change lasts only a short while and then there’s no motivation at all to continue with it.

Agreed!!! I think I would hit the deck if my 9 year old ever dared speak to me like that! It is a disgrace and no way would I then be giving a £500 gift.

The bike is a great outdoor present. I agree with others, give it to him. (he'll have no concept how much it cost though. Make sure he has a good lock & helmet and definitely uses them, no exceptions on the helmet front.

Where is he getting the language from? 9 is really young to be exposed to that. It can be getting into school via mates via unrestricted gaming/Internet - make sure your own online controls are top notch both at your house, grandparents' houses, friends houses (at this age you still have some control over friends with parents of similar values - max 2 more years, that's it), phones etc etc etc

Right. This level of agressiin is off the charts for a nine yearbold andvyou seem flumoxxed by it. You need help—he needs help. Perhaps someone else has recommended it but I also recommend Ross Greene’s The Explosive Child.

The problem with child psychologist's is so many from all I read on multiple forums - seem completely unable to spot or consider any possibility of something like Autism or ADHD. Then kids get dumped as some MH case.

There's something slightly off here - did I read somewhere he's hitting you regularly OP? This just isn't typical - even if OP is a wet lettuce ( not suggesting)- there's something else going on with the 9 year old. I'm not going to say it but you know what I'm suggesting.

The Explosive Child is alot to take on and get your head round but we recommend it on almost every single thread like this because for those mum's who have read it - it does make sense and it works.

Give the kid the bike and talk to him today about his behaviour.

You need to nip this behaviour in the bud with zero tolerance for verbal or physical abuse and an immediate reaction to it with consequences that are always followed through. Whether that is removal of devices and/or grounding. Even if the grounding is difficult do not give in, if they do not comply with the grounding it gets reset and extended until they do. Stay calm, but show you are very cross/disappointed and calmly dish out the consequences.

Where is your dp/dh in all of this? Is he his dad, dh would have read ds the riot act for lifting his hands to anyone in our house in anger. I can actually remember my dad, on hearing my brother hit me when they were out over an argument about the TV, marching him to the car and them disappearing for several hours.................never happened again.

Christmas presents are not the place to bring in consequences, but you and your dp/dh need to work together on how you are going to get across to him that his behaviour will not be tolerated (even on Christmas day if it happens again) and will have consistent, unpleasant, consequences, beyond "a quiet word" that are always followed through, if there is a repeat.

Kids thrive on firm boundaries and consequences. He needs to learn that behaviour like that will not be tolerated by other adults especially when he is a teen/adult himself and it is likely to get him into serious trouble.

For everyone tolerating this from their kids btw just know they are going to grow up and assume this is how they can talk to their girlfriends, wives and then daughters. This is learned behaviour and if you don’t stamp it out when they are nine they will do it every year thereafter.

When I first got together with my partner, donkeys years ago, we would periodically fall out because of the disdainful way he’d sometimes talk to me. No name calling just a lack of respect/bite my head off for no reason sort of thing. Then one day I saw him do it to his mother and she apologised to him would you believe!!!! I had a go at him and said it was unacceptable and said to his mother that she shouldn’t tolerate it. Since then I think we’ve only fallen out once more over the same thing when he was stressed over a DIY task. Don’t bloody accept it!!

Not tolerating doesn’t mean harsh or zero tolerance though

DS found the last two years of primary incredibly difficult - he is tall and start puberty early and the hormones that came with that were frankly awful - anger in particular that he did not really understand or control.

it was a hard hard time - and one now at 12 he feels bad about how he was towards me.

it involved talking and understanding and working out what he needed and he is getting there

I think you should have zero tolerance of your child calling you a bitch and hitting you.

Op you said that you didn’t want your son waking up your daughter. I assume he was up very early ? He wanted to go on an elf hunt ? This is a lot of excitement for first thing in the morning and it sounds a bit erratic for a 9 year old and impulsive ?

Is your son having problems sleeping ? My 8 year old recently was jumping on furniture and wouldn’t listen to anything we said. I was genuinely worried and then found out he has an ear infection that wasn’t painful enough for him to register. As soon as the infection went away he was fine.

I also notice sleep is a major issue that impacts his moods. Is your son not sleeping and could there be an underlying stressor like scary dreams or something at school he’s not telling you ?

My money is on this being some sort of illness/sleep deprivation making him impulsive and erratic and very irritability.

You say home life is good but if he’s learned this from someone at school, is he projecting how they’re treating him ?