Thinking of not giving my son his main present.

[MrsPeregrine]

This year my son was going to get a new bike. It’s a brand new Frog one and it cost me £499, a lot more than I would normally spend on one Christmas present, but his current bike is a 3rd or 4th hand one that is heavy and stiff so difficult to ride, doesn’t have gear etc. He has other presents that he will be getting too.

However, his behaviour towards the whole family hasn’t been great at times and yesterday was particularly bad. He’s 9. This morning I woke up to him walking in our room asking if he could go on an elf hunt with his sister. I told him not to wake her up and he ended up shouting at us both and calling me a bitch and telling me I’m a rude shit several times.

Im absolutely disgusted and this behaviour is on another level to how he has been previously. I worry about what he will be like when he is older and him terrorising us in our own home. We live in a terraced house and he knows we worry about annoying the neighbours by being too noisy so if we tell him off he starts shouting and it gets louder and louder. He hit me yesterday. His sister who is 7 has never sworn at us or hit us and is generally very well behaved. She knows my son is getting a bike this year and I stupidly told him that he is getting a big present this year - which I regret now.

I just think after the way he has behaved and spoken to me this morning he doesn’t deserve it snd it’s like we will be rewarding his bad behaviour so will send the wrong message. His birthday is in April so we could save it for then. At the same time I dont want there to be a big fall out or upset tomorrow as it would ruin the day for my daughter and I don’t want him shouting and yelling when our neighbours are trying to have a peaceful day too.

What would you do?

Wish I had added a poll now and have just tried to edit my post to add one but it won’t let me.

He needs seriously telling this behaviour is not acceptable. Whatever if anything else is going on in his life this is absolutely not acceptable. I would tell him he gets the big present if he apologies (properly) and promises to treat you with some respect. Getting bullied by an 8 year old is not a position you want to get into, as you say he will be getting older and bigger you need to get control back now.

I'd take a slightly different approach.

Long bike rides are exactly what this kid needs. His bike isn't going to make him rude or grumpy.

The things to confiscate for bad behaviour are the items which drive it... game consoles, iPads etc.

A daily walk or bike ride with you would probably have huge benefits.

I don't think presents should be taken away for being over excited/over stimulated and therefore a bit naughty around Christmas. HOWEVER, I'm a very laidback liberal parent of just turned adult DC, but there is no way I would tolerate being called a bitch or a rude shit and I absolutely would not be sat there on Christmas morning giving a £500 bike I worked hard for to anyone who treated me like that. Does he know he is getting the bike? If not, you can't make the connection without it being convoluted and weird, just don't gift it. There would have been immediate consequences for this behaviour in my home. I am not teaching any of my DC that it is ok to speak like that to someone you love because they said no to you. This is a big deal. Absolutely not.

Well if you are great team what does Your DH think you both should do ?

Before I read the replies I knew there would be some posters claiming this behaviour is hormones or ND.
I really wish women wouldn't start excusing aggressive male behaviour based on the supposed hormones of a 9 year old child! As for autism and SEN theres plenty in my family and while this has caused some issues it's never an excuse for calling a grown woman a bitch, or hitting her.
I would give the bike but remove all access to the internet, and any gaming.
It's quite likely the home is perfectly fine, but the internet and gaming can completely screw up boys heads.

I'm also curious about how you and your husband responded in the moment. In our home, this kind of behaviour would have immediately led to a very stern discussion, and any punishment (if required) would have been clearly laid out there and then so that it connects directly to what caused it. Right now, he is simply a child who said something rude. However, I do believe that serious lessons about mutual respect need to be taught now, or you run the risk of raising an aggressive teenager or worse, an abusive man.

My experience is that all the best meaningful chats are 1:1 in the car. I think there is something about your dc knowing you have to look at the road not them that helps the conversation flow. Try it.

Personally I’d be sitting down with him today and explaining that his behaviour has been so atrocious that you have contemplated not allowing him to have his big Christmas present until he can show better behaviour. Tell him that you will allow him to have it, but if his behaviour continues it will be taken away. And mean it.
I think some tough love is needed here.

What strikes me is the contrast of the childlike wish for the elf hunt and the precociously unpleasant language. It's almost like being caught between two worlds - very much a sign of preteen transition, but also of being exposed to stuff he's not equipped to 'put in its place' yet. I'd be looking a bit more closely when he next plays Minecraft. Sadly, I think it's likely he's being exposed to other children talking like this at school, however naice a school/area it is. 'Bitch' used alongside the pretty lame 'rude shit' suggests he's not properly aware of its import and impact, but also that he's heard it casually thrown around a lot. That said, I've two late teenage sons and they have certainly spoken to me without the appropriate respect on occasion over the years, but they have never, ever called me a name like that. Given this, I would also want to check what's going on in his life.

Am with everyone else re not linking presents to behaviour. Christmas is about showing unconditional love. He's certainly not too young, though, for a calm and very serious explanation that 'bitch' is a terrible insult and he can't ever call you or anyone that again, no matter who else he hears using it.

If I’d have called my mum a bitch, my feet wouldn’t have touched the floor. I’d have been grounded instantly and had all privileges removed (and I’d have got a wallop off my dad, but it was the 80’s!)
Any child who thinks it’s ok to speak to his parents like that clearly doesn’t have strong enough consequences to his behaviour.

Just to offer a different perspective - he may not be exposed to that sort of language in the home, either through other adults or computer games. But as the parent of a 9 year old DS, I would bet my bottom dollar that a number of the children in his class are exposed to that kind of language, in context, whether through parents, more worldly older siblings or computer/video games. He may well have picked it up in the playground.

I would absolutely come down on him like a tonne of bricks for using such language towards you and I agree with PP that it would be helpful if your DH stepped in here to make it clear how unacceptable such language is.

I agree with others that this seems a tricky age. My DS seems angrier than a year ago and I’m sure hormones play a part. He has ASD and struggles to filter appropriate language and volume (lots of shouting). We are having lots of quite direct conversations about behaviour which won’t fly as a man, and about whether he sees particular men in his family (who are great role models) behaving in such a way…

What were the consequences at the time for his behaviour? If I had ever spoken to either of my parents like that I would have been sent to my room for a significant period of time, no ifs or buts. You don’t need to have a quiet word, you need a serious talk and your husband needs to be involved too - you haven’t said what his reaction was to this? Have the talk today so that it’s done before Christmas and then you can all reset tomorrow to enjoy the day. Do give him his gift because you can’t link the two things together, although if he speaks like that to you again, removal of his bike for a set period of time could be a sanction for his behaviour. Time to definitively nip this in the bud because it’s completely unacceptable.

I agree with @TheLittleOldWomanWhoShrinks about not linking this to Christmas presents (your point about pre-teen transitions really resonated with me!). But I would be making it clear there will be firm consequences for using that word again - and I would follow through with that.

It’s interesting that so many people accept this behaviour off a child and think the way to deal with it as a quiet word, or to leave it and just praise the good behaviour.
We have an increasing number of children with poor behaviour and I often wonder why, but then you read MN and you realise that a lot of people choose this softly softly approach because they are trying to avoid conflict. The reality is, sometimes conflict is needed so that somebody knows what they have done in unacceptable.

Agree with pps - he gets the bike. This whole “Santa will bring you coal unless you behave” approach is not sensible.

The behaviour however has to improve.

Different needs for db and dd… maybe db needs an outlet? Hate to be stereotypical but many boys respond some rough, vigorous play

I would say he needs MORE cycling - get him out for family bike rides in fresh air, in cold, in rain, in sun and wind. Tire him out! Exercise can really improve mood and attitude. Being trapped in a little house where he can’t make a noise probably sending him crazy.

Aim for two hours of activity per day, more at weekends/holidays.

Separate consequence for swearing and bad behaviour. No chance he should get away with it.

When he wanted to do an Elf hunt with his sister-was your reaction 'no, don't wake her up?' or was it more 'that's a good idea, why don't you do it after breakfast because I think she's still asleep so we need to let her wake up first?'

I'm just wondering if he had what he thought was a lovely idea, felt like he was shot down and got angry-not that the behaviour is reasonable, but he's 9, he probably won't always be reasonable.

This xx

You think yelling and screaming and taking away presents makes a child behave better? It doesn't. It makes them resent you, give them more of a reason to hate you and also lowers their self esteem which never leads to happy, well behaved kids.
What was the elf hunt OP? Why was he so desperate to go on it? What time did he wake you up? The way he spoke to you wasn't ok but this sounds like something really important to him, was there a reason he wanted to do it right then? What did it involve? How did you speak to him in relation to it for him to say you are really rude?

His behaviour is poor at the most. Christmas is a separate issue and should not be used to punish him and sully the memory of Christmas.

I would 100% recommend family counselling in situation. Maybe some parenting classes on how to calmly and safely deescalate the situations. I aren't saying you are bad parents but people do further education on other subjects right? I think it's a good thing to learn solutions that you may not have thought of.

Another is maybe get him involved in a local community project for kids. Where he can learn to be hands on, work as a team and left off some steam. Learn to respect people and life around him.

Last but not least. Definitely give the bike. Not worth it being so close to Xmas to be the hill to die on. You can be the lead he needs to see in his life. Good luck to you. And I wish you happy holidays.

Uh huh. So, unless we are perfect parents at all times, and say exactly the child centred, psychologist approved word we can expect verbal abuse?
There's no excuse! Little boys can't always expect to get their own way, and adults need to stop being frightened to confront their own children!

I'm in the seperate gifts from behaviour camp.
The bikes purchased you don't want to have it kicking around the garage not being used.

I also believe many kids are overwhelmed by the build up to Christmas. So much more goes on than happened even 20 or 30 years ago.
Even simple things like advent calendars have gone from simple pictures to toys and stuff.
Santa visits are much more than a visit and a huge que in a department store, everything is a full on experience breakfast with Santa.
Schools do much more too, dress down days, Christmas jumper days.

Then we wonder why kids act up, and get completely overwhelmed and act out.

Look up connection and parenting. I think it may be of use to you. There's a page Peace and Parenting on Instagram. The woman is a bit preachy but the ideas are good.

Give him the bike. Behaviour is always communication and something is happening to make him act like that - maybe bullying etc at school. He needs your love more than ever.

Two things jump out at me.

1. What were the consequences of his behaviour from you and DH at the moment the behaviour happened? It sounds like there wasn't any, since you don't mention it. That's bad of you. There definitely should have been consequences and it should have involved treating him like the 9yr old he is. Not having a chat with him like he's an adult you're wanting to clear the air with. By all means have the chat if you think it'll be helpful, but that should have been in addition to the consequences at the time, not instead of.

You say "he wants for nothing". Except discipline and the recognition that he's a 9yr old boy, not a miniature adult, perhaps?

You seem lacking in boundaries yourself, to have let his behaviour go without immediate consequences. Make sure, in turn, that you're not bringing him up to have no boundaries of his own (by overstepping them yourself and expecting him to tolerate it). I see no glaringly obvious sign of that in your post (except the comparison business), but as an adult who seems lacking in boundaries yourself, it's a possibility you could over-correct yourself and swing too far the other way. He doesn't have to be a clone of you or DD, he has the right to be himself. He just doesn't have the right to be a dickhead.

1. I know it's only in your head (gonna assume you're not saying it out loud!) but stop comparing him to your DD. For two reasons.

It could be subconsciously affecting your attitude or behaviour towards him. I'd be surprised if it isn't. It's favouritism.

Also, it's inherently wrong of you. You have two separate DC, they're not a collective unit. They're different people, with different personalities. Your method of parenting works for DD, it doesn't work for DS. You need to adapt to the DC to effectively parent them in whatever way is needed, not expect either of them to adapt themselves to you and then mentally label that DC a bad egg when they can't and don't.

It's not DC job to make things alright within the family dynamics, it's yours and DH. By laying the blame at your DS feet (by claiming your family life and parenting are perfect), you're absolving yourself of that responsibility and putting it firmly on his shoulders. That's unfair and it's bad parenting. It's the type of thing that fucks up a DC.

His behaviour may at times be bad, but he is not intrinsically bad for not being like your DD.

IDK what's wrong with the listing feature. The second 1 should be a 2, obviously. MN automatically changed it