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Vegetarians invited themselves for Christmas- got beef ordered!

874 replies

EdenFlower · 18/11/2021 16:48

So, my vegetarian relatives and asked if they can join us for Christmas? I have it planned- joint of beef on order, I've perfected my roast potatoes and like them cooked in beef dripping, likewise the yorkshire pudding, my sprout recipe is cooked with pancetta, starter is parma ham and figs...and so on! Grrr! Now everything will need to adapted to be veggie because I'm not doing two versions of everything. It was already adapted to be gluten free for MIL but now two more special diet guests is a push.

Would it be rude to ask them to bring their own veggie options with them- nut roast and vegetarian gravy or whatever it is they eat?

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EdenFlower · 20/11/2021 09:12

I'm in Yorkshire

OP posts:
Peppapigforlife · 20/11/2021 09:15

I'm a vegetarian and I have to say your whole Christmas dinner sounds amazing and I understand why you would want to stick to your family tradition. I also understand why at a special time like Christmas you wouldn't want to compromise too much on your vision. I would prepare a veggie dish now and freeze it in advance. I would keep your brussels as you want them and maybe just throw some green beans in a saucepan or something else green and simple as an alternative .sounds like there will be plenty to keep them full.
I would compromise on the yorkshires and make them vegetarian friendly.
As for the roasties, that's a difficult one because you really do want that Christmas tradition. Do you have enough space in your oven to do a few extra ones in oil? Or could you just make them some mash after you boil the potatoes and explain in advance which dishes are made with meat and that they have a choice?
I personally, would eat the beef dripping potatoes, and just pick out the pancetta or bacon from the sprouts, because it's more about the digesting of meat which upsets my stomach, but I know not every veggie is the same.

TatianaBis · 20/11/2021 09:16

I fondly imagine everything in Yorkshire is cooked in dripping. Including pudding.

Tulipomania · 20/11/2021 09:20

People don't continue to ram meat down their throats in spite of enjoying a non-meat diet more, just because of some principle/belief that meat must be eaten. They do it because they prefer it.

Rubbish. They do it because of centuries of cultural conditioning in the West to eat meat. We need to move away from that now both for health reasons and the environment.

There are good and bad cooks of both meat-based and vegetarian food. My DH used to hide the beefburgers his Mum used to make him under the sofa cushions as they were so disgusting.

Schools should be setting an example by not serving meat at every meal; and they should be teaching children how to learn to cook properly from scratch.

Look at how different cuisines are in other parts of the world. There are large parts of India where vegetarian food is the norm and is delicious. In China, Thailand, Japan etc meat is never the 'main' event but used sparingly and in conjunction with a range of vegetable based dishes. Unfortunately as those countries get richer they are picking up Western ways of eating focused on fast food and meat, with consequently bad results for public health.

sofakingcool · 20/11/2021 09:22

@CarrotSticks19

Reminds of when out with DPs family who are all lifelong veggies. We'd got some chips and we were all talking about how thet were the tastiest chips we'd ever eaten. I couldnt work out what the flavour was and it was only after we'd eaten them that I realised the flavour was beef dripping

MIl still sometimes mentions the excellent chips. I didnt have the heart to tell them the tastiness was because of the beef dripping, I just pray we never go back!

I'm surprised they didn't check the chips were suitable, I'm also a life long vegetarian and it's the sort of thing I'd do as there's a risk they are cooked in meat fats, or the same fryer with meat Confused
YouJustFoldItIn · 20/11/2021 09:28

I agree that Indian vegetarian food is delicious but without the use of copious spices and huge amounts of onion and garlic and ginger, it can be difficult to not miss meat or fish.

Personally I find that all those very 'in your face' big flavours in Indian food can be so overwhelming that they mask the taste of any meat or fish anyway, so it may as well not be there. If you are trying to conciously eat less meat or fish then Indian food is a great way to do it.

But very spicy foods aside, many people do find vegetarian and especially vegan food to be missing something, in terms of flavour. You are welcome to disagree but then if you are a vegetarian, you would, wouldn't you?

EdenFlower · 20/11/2021 09:42

There's a lot to be said for cheese!

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QuiteQuaint · 20/11/2021 09:43

Thankfully younger people are more aware and concerned for animal welfare and the environment than the older generations. People are also turning vege/vegan for their health. Vegetarianism and veganism is on the rise, the plant based food market is increasing rapidly whilst meat sales fall. That investment means improvement in taste, choice and availability. Most chip shops don’t use beef dripping as they realise times have changed, cost and health are also a factor. Most of the England has certainly moved on. It’s the exception not the norm to find chips cooked in beef dripping now.
Things are changing, probably in my lifetime, eating meat and animal products won’t be the norm. 🥳 As the oldies die off, the next generations make the norms, bring it on.

Tulipomania · 20/11/2021 09:44

I'm not a vegetarian actually, but I have consciously chosen to eat a much more plant-based diet in the past few years.

We mainly eat plant-based meals when I'm cooking at home or if I'm choosing in a restaurant; if someone else is cooking I'm happy to eat what they cook.

Never ever eat 'meat substitutes' such as quorn. Yuk. However there are good vegetarian options to recreate the umami flavour you get from some meat cookery, such as miso and soy sauce. And charring vegetables enhances their flavour too. Ingredients like capers and olives add extra piquancy. There's a very good vegan Worcester sauce.

notacooldad · 20/11/2021 09:44

But very spicy foods aside, many people do find vegetarian and especially vegan food to be missing something, in terms of flavour. You are welcome to disagree but then if you are a vegetarian, you would, wouldn't you?
Of course I'm going to disagree. If flavour is missing from a meal its because it's not been made right.
Personally I find middle eastern food tbe easiest and most flavorful meals to cook. However my eastern European and Mexican vegan meals are awesome.
I make some good Indian meals but keep returning to my Iranian, Israeli and Turkish recipes.

Tulipomania · 20/11/2021 09:46

Agreed - my favourite think to order at a restaurant is a Middle Eastern vegetarian mezze.

QuiteQuaint · 20/11/2021 09:48

Of course I'm going to disagree. If flavour is missing from a meal its because it's not been made right.

I agree. But also, animal welfare, the environment and health are important to many. People are realising that wanting the taste and texture of meat doesn’t mean that the consequences of that are acceptable. Intensive farming, animal suffering, climate change, etc.

QuiteQuaint · 20/11/2021 09:49

*meat and dairy products

Tulipomania · 20/11/2021 09:49

Also vegetarian Indian food eaten in India - in the South it is very rare to have meat - is not overpoweringly spicy, it is delicate and subtle.

It is the Indian restaurants in the UK that have conditioned people to think of curry as being mainly chilli based and very hot and and spicy.

courtshoe · 20/11/2021 09:54

5 weeks to go. Plenty of time to go back to the drawing board. We all had a pretty shit Christmas last year, for lots of us, unable to see family and friends.

I'd replan, adapt your meals to accommodate the extra guests. It's really no biggie in the grand scheme of things. If you want a Xmas dinner dripping with dripping and pancetta in your sprouts, we'll, just have that on Boxing Day instead

Ddot · 20/11/2021 09:57

Northeast near coast traditional chip shops

YouJustFoldItIn · 20/11/2021 10:10

@Tulipomania

I'm not a vegetarian actually, but I have consciously chosen to eat a much more plant-based diet in the past few years.

We mainly eat plant-based meals when I'm cooking at home or if I'm choosing in a restaurant; if someone else is cooking I'm happy to eat what they cook.

Never ever eat 'meat substitutes' such as quorn. Yuk. However there are good vegetarian options to recreate the umami flavour you get from some meat cookery, such as miso and soy sauce. And charring vegetables enhances their flavour too. Ingredients like capers and olives add extra piquancy. There's a very good vegan Worcester sauce.

I am the same although I think I haven't yet gone as far as you, and don't imagine I ever will, although I do increasingly choose vegetarian and fish over meat. I think I've just eaten so much meat from years of low carbing that I no longer need or enjoy it as much as I used to and I find my palate craves different things.

The thought if a steak rarely holds much interest for me now, even when I am in a restaurant where I know the steak will be excellent. I've just eaten too many steaks in my time - good and bad, so I rarely fancy it, compared to other things on offer. I can't imagine getting to a point where I would never miss meat at all though. I still think there is nothing better than a good roast dinner.

I do understand very well how to get flavour into vegetarian food, I literally spend most days of my life working on trying new recipes and recipe development. I have a cookery book collection that takes up a whole room. It's not that I don't understand that Indian food can be 'delicate' and not always very spicy - I do. But in general terms, it is spicy, (or at least very differently flavoured) compared to western and European foods. It's not that I don't understand that vegetarian food can be delicious and flavoursome - I do. I just think that meat is also very flavoursome in a different and often better way, and cooking with meat gives viscosity, texture, body and uncuousness to cooked dishes that makes them delicious in a way that most vegetarian food cannot be, or can be but very differently so. It's just personal preference.

I suppose it's like learning to stop having sugar or milk in your coffee or tea. At first it's not enjoyable (at best) and horrible at worst, but If you persist you can learn to like it. Then once you are used to it there is no going back. You can change your palate with training, but you've got to want to change it in the first place. Most people just don't want to stop eating meat or fish altogether because they enjoy it too much. Not to mention having a fundamental belief that it is not only good for you, (providing you don't just eat processed junk) but better for you than a vegetarian diet or a vegan diet.

Dentistlakes · 20/11/2021 10:25

It’s easy enough to make the sides vege friendly and buy a prepared vege main. You’re complicating thing too much.

PinkTonic · 20/11/2021 10:41

In China, Thailand, Japan etc meat is never the 'main' event but used sparingly and in conjunction with a range of vegetable based dishes

Actually Chinese hospitality I’ve seen involved honoured guests being served a parade of different animals, roasted and chopped in such a way that they were still clearly recognisable. My step daughters are vegan and found that much of south east Asia doesn’t understand the concept.

007Stocko · 20/11/2021 10:50

I'm not sure what the issue is with you already having ordered the beef given they are clearly not going to eat any of it. They surely would not be expecting the other guests to eat veggie just because they do!!!

I'm sure you can adapt parts of the meal without too much difficulty for them, appreciating its extra work of course. Just roast some potatoes in vegetable oil for them, you can do this in advance then reheat either back in the oil or in the oven if space allows. Keep some sprouts to the side which again can be cooked and just reheated, by some veggie yorkshires for them and maybe cauliflower 'steaks' as the meat substitute.

If you have a spare shelf in the oven you can pre cook all that then put it on a tray in the oven to reheat.

You certainly shouldn't be asking them to bring their own, and whilst I can't dispute its extra work when you sit down and think about it then its not that much extra and worth it to have their company on the day surely.

Tulipomania · 20/11/2021 11:05

Fair point PinkTonic ! I remember a memorable meal of tripe once when I was on holiday in China, and enjoying the best ever crispy roast duck in Beijing.

But even meat is bland if it's not seasoned well. I wouldn't want to eat a plain poached chicken breast. And Shakespeare wrote a whole play about the importance of adding salt to meat!

YouJustFoldItIn · 20/11/2021 11:16

Actually Chinese hospitality I’ve seen involved honoured guests being served a parade of different animals, roasted and chopped in such a way that they were still clearly recognisable. My step daughters are vegan and found that much of south east Asia doesn’t understand the concept.

i think the point is that in poorer communities in most parts of the world meat is reserved for high days and holidays (or for honoured guests, weddings etc) when served in any great quantity. Day to day , rice/noodles/bread, dahls and vegetables make up the bulk of most meals. In China, Vietnam etc offal, tendon, feet, heads and bones will be thrown into a broth for flavour. But prime cuts of meat would not be the daily norm, for economic reasons.

It used to be that way in the west too, until we started intensively factory farming our meat. In poorer European countries they will still eat like that, and it's a good thing too, although in richer countried we have become rather detached from that sort of eating, finding it a bit of a challenge and a mystery to us. Too many years of prime chicken breast all skinned and boned for us has turned us all soft.

I remember in Bordeaux around the back of the Capucins food market, seeing a group of Roma gypsies huddled around a woman with a huge plastic sack full of meat and offal offcuts and bones. I'm guessing maybe she'd bought them cheaply from a butcher who couldn't use or sell those parts, or someone was raising and slaughtering something in their backyard and selling it. Not sure.

But the contents were being pulled out of the bag and inspected by half a dozen people and I have to say I didn't recognise them as any bits of meat you see in a butcher's or supermarket. It looked like the stuff that would go in the mincer, or maybe sent off for pet food. Shock

We've become a bit squeamish about that sort of thing, but it's absolutely right that we should get back in touch with using the whole animal. I am trying, but it's not something that always comes easily. Texurally some animal parts can be a challenge...

That's why Yorkshire pudding always used to be served before the meat main, it filled everyone up cheaply as meat was expensive and there wasn't much to go around. When I was growing up my grandparents would always serve bread and butter with a meal for the same reasons, although we did eat meat virtually daily, it wasn't served in huge quantities. And the meat we did have was often cheap cuts cooked long and slow. That's something most people have lost the art of in this country.

In Italy pasta is usually served first, so I guess historically that's for the same reason. Fill up on the cheap stuff first, so the meat/fish can go further.

Nowmum43 · 20/11/2021 11:19

I'm veggie and going to my sisters for Christmas dinner, I know they
Love their roast potatoes cooked with the turkey so I'll be cooking and taking my own and then hit eating the lovely Christmas dinner veg. If I decide I'd rather have something veggie with it then I'll take it with me.
Maybe suggest that to them, us veggies aren't monsters Grin

YouJustFoldItIn · 20/11/2021 11:21

I remember a memorable meal of tripe

I can't. I just can't. I want to try, but I can't face it.I feed tripe to my dog who would probably try and fight you to the death for it, she loves it so much, but even the bleached tripe for human consumption smells SOOO bad and feels so disgusting to the touch that the thought of eating it myself is just a leap to far.

rosesandbees · 20/11/2021 11:29

Definitely not rude. Continue with your delicious sounding lunch and ask them to bring what they would like to eat then everyone is happy. My Aunt always brings something for her and her girls and we have a cheese board and lots of fruit as many of us don’t like Christmas pudding or mince pies!