I told DD the elf on the shelf was moved around by parents not magic, I think I'm about to become a social pariah

[R0nJ0n]

I don't do the elf on the shelf. What other people do with elves is none of my business, but I personally find the whole thing a bit forcing Christmas magic overkill, and the elves are damn creepy.

DD, aged nearly 8, was asking me about the elf on the shelf this morning as she'd heard about it at school. From time to time I set some of her cuddly toys up in amusing tableauxs while she's at school. There's no pretence it happens by magic, she knows I do it, so I told her the elf was kind of like that and at night a mum or dad puts the elf in a silly situation for the children to find in the morning. After a bit of grumbling about why don't we have an elf (because they freak me out a little and life's too short being the answer) the subject was dropped.

Several hours later I was in Asda and it suddenly hit me, I'd told DD the elves weren't magic, but I didn't tell her to keep that to herself. She's not the sort of child who'd maliciously spoil the magic for others, but she is a pedantic little thing who likes to correct people when they're wrong. Added to this several parents of her classmates take the elf very seriously indeed, they go the full monty with special North Pole breakfasts when the creepy wee buggers arrive, and compose highly elaborate scenarios for him (Is it a boy?) to be found in.

By tommorow morning I'm going to be on the receiving end of some cat's bum mouths, aren't I?

My 17 year old DS is upstairs writing his letter to Santa.

I am, however, fairly certain he doesn't actually believe in him...

My reception aged ds is not convinced at all that the one his teacher has in class is real and there's no convincing him otherwise.

I told him that it might make other children said if he says it in front of them. That's really the best I can do.

I have told the dc that some children aren't visited by santa because their parents would rather get them presents themselves and so don't want santa to come. My sister says those children are naughty and their parents tell them it's make believe because they're embarrassed by them being so naughty.

It's horses for courses.

BoxofSnails, the spirit of kindness isn't the preserve of those who believe in God.

This year, instead of an advent calendar, my older 2 boys are using small amounts of their pocket money to put something non perishable into a box. One item a day between the 1st and the 24th. DH and I are also contributing something each day and on Christmas Eve I'd hoped to take it to the foodbank but they have asked for it on 23rd instead if possible so we'll need to cheat a little that day.
They have reached an age were they are aware of the true spirit of Christmas and also how fortunate they are. I feel very proud of how they've embraced the idea.

We are an atheist family but it does not mean we don't live the true spirit of Christmas even if we don't celebrate the religious aspect of it.

Why has elsa got freaky black eyes??
And you lot are bothered by elves...

Thinking about it, I suppose it is easier to believe in santa and the tooth fairy because you never see them. Or if you do, like with santa, he actually is a real person (albeit different few rent every time). The elf they do see, and it is clearly a toy, so much harder to believe in.
That said, I couldn't just tell DD he wasn't real as some children in her class really really believe in theirs. I was just vague about it.

Few rent? Not sure what my phone is playing at

I have been telling my ds aged 6 that we help santa with money for the toys for him to buy. As he is getting older we buy more of the presents to help santa so he can concentrate on the younger children, this year is his first as a older brother so its a bit special.

John my DS is year 7, so secondary school, and still firmly believes. A few times over the years he's questioned it - I suspect from hearing his peers discuss it and I've asked him if he believes there is a man that delivers toys by sleigh, pulled by reindeer, around the world on Christmas Eve.

Turns out he does

We don't do the elf stuff. Too much IMO but each to their own.

My friend posted a hilarious video on FB of her 3 year-old son and his first encounter with their elf. "Mum, that's not real!" and he just walks away.

I am not bothering with the elf on a shelf, and no I am not entirely sure how I am going to play the whole Father Christmas thing either. Yes I am a Christian so hopefully people can understand if we as a family place more importance on that this time of year.

My 3 year-old will probably get a bit worried if she thought a man was going to climb down our chimney when we are all asleep and creep about with a giant sack of presents.

I don't like the naughty/nice manipulation either so I might talk about Father Christmas but miss that bit out. I am not going to hype it up too much though, probably leave it so she knows the concept let her decide for herself if he's real or not. Just like I am going to do with the god/Jesus questions I am bound to get in a year or two's time.

But BoxofSnails if you want to go further back, Christmas was 'appropriated' from the pagan celebration of Yule.

I don't remember ever believing in Santa, but it was all still very 'magical' playing along. Kids have good imagination and like a bit of make believe. DD5 has been told by a friend santa isn't real and her parents bring the stockings, I said she was telling the truth, santa only does the stockings for as long as you believe in him, which is pretty much true so win win. I don't think DD2 has got a clue what is going on.

We've been given an EoaS this year. I'm still not doing.

Surely all this elf on the shelf bollocks is just a clever marketing ploy and some gullible people have fallen for it? How on earth do grown adults get sucked into these things?

The elf is entirely different IMO from Santa. the santa belief is a worldwide thing in various ways and has been for as long as we remember. I love the magic of Santa, and would want older children to preserve that for e.g. their younger siblings.

But the elf thing is just a crock of shite really, and amazon and whoever else are making a fortune out of it. My ds is too old now to believe in any of that, but there's not a chance in hell I'd ever have entertained that one.

^The, children, be good to the little old man
When you find who the little man is^

*then
And my italics failed too!

what a crappy boring world we live in these days. No Santa clause, no magic no joy! Yes YABU to tell your dd the elf magic isn't real. Whoever is telling a 2 year old Santa isn't real is completely bonkers! As if there's any point! Cousin Chloe using Christianity to explain what's real and what isn't-you make no sense! What's God got to do with it? Santa is a bit of fun! What's wrong with people

You must be living in a different world Jw, Santa is everywhere.

Jw35 - the point is I want my DD to know that she can trust me to tell her the truth as I believe it to be. That's why it's relevant.

But I'm in no way criticising others who do it differently, I don't believe there are rights and wrongs here. i'll do my best to make sure we don't spoil the fun for others.

I meant rights and wrongs about telling your own kids Santa is real or not, by the way, in case that's not obvious.

CousinChloe, you're imparting your religious beliefs onto your 2 year old, yes? God is another 'being' whose existence can't be proved. (Which is a whole other thread) but what if your child doesn't believe...she'll think you've lied to her about that surely

I bet my parents didn't have this amount of angst about Christmas and Santa. I can't believe the fuss people make about it (on both sides).

When I was little the vicar told the kids at Sunday school that Santa wasn't real and it was their parent's filling the stockings. The aim of this was to make the kids appreciate their parents more - but some of the kids were traumatised! Caused no end of trouble in the village!

I come from a tradition where you do not, under any circumstances want a faerie, an elf or a troll in your house as it brings massive bad luck! They are bad harbingers! You leave food outside the back door so they'll eat it and pass on their way. So I hate the elf on the shelf - reminds me of the clown in Poltergeist for a start, for the rest - well it's for people to make money out of people with shallow belief systems.

MyGastIsFlabbered - you're right, she might come to not believe. I do appreciate that a non-belief in Santa is not an immunisation against non-Christianity!
But if she does not believe in God in the future, it won't be because her belief in God is undermined when she finds out that Santa doesn't exist. She won't classify God in the box of "things parents tell small children that later everyone stops believing in as they grow up".

And besides the point, but I'm definitely not lying to her about God. If in fact He doesn't exist then I will have inadvertently misled her, but not deliberately told her something I know to be untrue about Him.

And SoupDragon, you're probably right. I'm sure this issue doesn't warrant the amount of thought I have put into it! Just trying to do the right thing though, as I'm sure we all are.

I'm an atheist but I completely understand the religion argument. I feel the same way but because I'm an atheist - I don't tell my DS that the story of Jesus and god is real but I say some people believe it, it would feel weird to try to convince him of another made up story being true.