Why did you choose not to have children

[hotcoffeebeans]

Hi everyone just a random question really.
If you have never had kids by choice not because of anything else but you chose not to have any.
What was it that made you decide that motherhood was not for you.

I agree, that's not right, and not really what I was saying. My point is that people very often have a deeper sense of empathy over things they have experienced, whether that's parents of babies feeling even worse about tragedies involving babies, or cat owners feeling devastated about sad stories involving cats. Or, in your case, adult survivors of child abuse feeling a deep sense of empathy regarding stories of child abuse. I'm definitely not saying parents are more empathetic full stop, just saying that parents often find that stories of child abuse hit closer to home now they have had their own kids.

Absolutely, it sounds like the vast majority of people would have been deeply affected by his story.

I'm not talking about "parental empathy". I don't think parents on the whole are more empathetic, in fact there are studies showing that parents are actually less empathetic than non-parents towards strangers that might pose a danger.

I'm talking about people being more emotionally affected by things that they have experience of. For example, if the abuse involved a five year old, and I have a five year old, the agony of imagining your own child in that situation just adds to the harrowing story. If you look back at my previous comments, I was replying to someone complaining that parents often say they are more deeply affected by stories involving child abuse than they were before having kids. The previous poster argued that this showed these parents were selfish and unempathetic before having kids (and placed a direct comparison to herself as someone deeply empathetic regardless), but I'd argue that having a stronger emotional response to, for example, a baby being killed, when you are holding your own baby, is a natural and normal response, which has no bearing on how naturally empathetic a person is. It's that immediate, visceral reaction to think of your child and protect them that is the difference. Whether that's selfish or not, I'm not passing judgement.

I wasn’t arguing they were selfish and unempathetic before having kids I’m saying they’re selfish now.

I had to go back to the initial post to double check because I wasn't sure now! But you did say this:

"you really needed to create a whole child to have empathy or be a better person?! And yet I’ve been told I’m not a real woman, I lack empathy, I won’t be a full person unless I have a child etc. but I can tell you now I don’t need to create a child to not be able to read about the parents and step parents who abuse them or to treat sections of society like a person"

That does imply that you think they needed to have children to have any sense of empathy, and that you don't need to do that, and that you fully feel the same way as they do, without a child. For me, while tragic stories involving kids made me distressed before becoming a parent, that emotional reaction can now be absolutely debilitating (towards both child and animal abuse - both being vulnerable). I can sort of see where you're getting the idea that this makes me selfish, but that's a bit of a leap and a bit of a judgement call on your part. The ability to put yourself in someone's shoes is the foundation of empathy and in that way it has a "selfish" component I suppose. But are you really saying that anybody who feels more deeply since having kids is innately selfish? Isn't that a little... unempathetic? People who have kids will usually spend more time nurturing children and will usually be deeply invested in their wellbeing. They get to know their children's friends and spend most of their time with groups of families. I'm trying hard not to be patronising (sorry!), but I'd have thought that the combination of extensive experience caring for children combined with the biological urge to nurture can often lead parents to become more distressed when they hear of children being abused. Yes they can put themselves more easily in that situation, but I wouldn't say that makes them selfish, any more than someone who becomes more empathetic working in an animal shelter.

I'm not sure we're going to get anywhere really, but I just wanted to point out that parents often do have a startlingly strong reaction to child tragedies, and that isn't necessarily selfish and isn't a reflection on you. Some people are just very emotionally reactive when they hear about tragedies, regardless of whether they have direct experience of it, and it sounds like you may be one of them. It's a positive, the world needs that force for good.

You don’t have to agree as I said before ‘to me’ that’s selfish. I don’t need to be starving, work in an animal shelter, be homeless etc to have empathy and I work hard in my life to help people and animals and to me it show a certain amount of selfishness that someone would need to get a dog or have a child before they can feel empathy for people or animals in terrible situations. However in my eyes It doesn’t mean that person is now empathetic to people or animals in that situation, it means they are worried that situation could happen to them and feel that worry and anxiety about themselves and their child or pet.

But this is derailing the OPs thread so I apologise to the OP and hope some other posters can put it back on track for her as I’ve already given my reason.

Maybe in a lighter (but accurate!) vein ...

Brilliant @Catsmere !!

Thanks @Words! 😁

I never wanted kids.... I expressed this as a small child. I was given dolls, and preferred to play with dinosaurs.
When I was in secondary school, me saying I didn't want kids was brought up as a concern during parent's evening. A 12 year old girl saying she does not want kids should not be an issue that needs exploring.
I am mid 40s now. I see kids, and recoil. I have no idea how to talk to kids.
The "biological urge" never came to me.

Love my nieces and nephews. Can spend as much time and money on them as i like but give them back and sleep soundly alone in my own bed !

Very similar, @XenoBitch ! Apparently when I was nine or so, my teacher tried to persuade me that I needed to learn to swim, because what if I had children and they were drowning? The story is that I marched up to her and said "I'm never learning to swim and I'm never having children!"

The source of this is the teacher, when I met her again at eighteen. She asked "Can you swim and do you have a boyfriend?" I said no, completely baffled by the question, and then she told me the tale, which I'd completely forgotten.

(She was a great teacher, I really liked her. She had the coolest knee high boots ever.)

I also have no idea how to talk to children and no wish to. "Thank you" and a smile to a polite child who's opened a door is more than enough.

I never, ever wanted any. And now menopause is round the corner and I am so glad that I will not have to worry about unwanted fertility ever again.

To the surprise of many I am actually really good with kids. I’m an auntie and godmother. But they get more interesting the older they become - babies are boring and toddlers annoying. The shrieky thing they do sets my teeth on edge. I am so, so glad that I have escaped all the mess and noise and tantrums.

I remember starting secondary, and all the girls being shown a video about Rubella, and the impact of it on unborn children... and we were scared into believing if we did not have the jab, our kids would be born deaf and blind and it would be our fault.
I was needle phobic anyway, but I also pleaded my case that I did not want kids anyway. Didn't matter. Was forced to have the Rubella jab anyway.

I don't think I ever put two and two together thinking about that! Not that needles bother me, but I doubt "I don't want children" crossed my mind. It was a chance to be out of class for a few minutes and didn't hurt as I think the TB shot did.

I just never wanted them, I have no interest in them, like I have no interest in mountaineering or the works of Shakespeare. I’m 53, married 24 years, no regrets.

Mumsnet! 😂My husband and I had been together for 7 years, married for 4 and started FTC as it was just something that we thought is the next phase of our lives. After ttc for 10 months we decided to pause for a couple months as we were getting too stressed it was not happening. Too many arguments, tears etc.

I found MN when googling tips about conceiving. I was reading all the conception, infertility, ttc, pregnancy threads then one day ventured into AIBU. The more I read about real life stories the more I realised that wasn’t the life I wanted. Yes there were some lovely heartwarming ones but on the whole this place was such an eye opener.

It wasn’t an overnight snap decision and we had many heart to heart conversations about not having a baby, really thought about it and decided no it’s not for us. In all those years together the most unhappy we’d ever been was when we were ttc. He said that he wasn’t desperate to be a father and went along because “it’s what people do.” 11 years later and zero regrets!

This is so cool ❤️

The only time in our 20 years together that we've gone through a short-lived phase of thinking we might have just one child, we thought that way because our friends (who had a relationship dynamic similar to ours) had an 18 month old and it all looked pretty sweet.....until shortly afterwards they divorced.
It's that feeling of - OK how hellish are you finding this entire experience that your better option is to split up the family?
We've never wavered since.

My life has been difficult and I didn't feel like adding another layer of difficulty and responsibility. So I got a cat instead. Also, I just didn't ever get broody or want them.

I have never wanted them. I didn't even like children when I was one.

@sprinklesprinkle I was thinking only yesterday that some of the comments and the threads you see on MN are the ultimate contraception.

my teacher tried to persuade me that I needed to learn to swim, because what if I had children and they were drowning? The story is that I marched up to her and said "I'm never learning to swim and I'm never having children!"

"But what if you never have the chance to die to save your kids?!" is, erm, one heck of an argument to reproduce.

(I realise this is a funny story, and it is, but can you imagine a young boy being told he needs to swim in order to save someone else's life and possibly die in the process, rather than to save his own? Because I can't.)

I mean, what you are describing at the bottom is the very masculine lifeguard/lifesaver culture. I agree that girls are taught since first consciousness to be self sacrificial in training for motherhood, but this example is one of the few were I COULD imagine boys being coerced similarly!

Really good point, actually! I hadn't thought of it that way but you're right.