Why did you choose not to have children

[hotcoffeebeans]

Hi everyone just a random question really.
If you have never had kids by choice not because of anything else but you chose not to have any.
What was it that made you decide that motherhood was not for you.

I was going to type out a very long response but it's easier to say that I have been nodding in agreement to every single post on this thread. I guess if I were to list all the reasons why I don't want children, there would be around 60+ points on the list vs the two "It might be nice" and "I might regret it later if I don't"

It's not that you need a child to empathise about child abuse. Most normal people empathise with a range of sad things. It's that humans naturally emphasise more deeply with something that they have direct and every day experience with.

Then why are most child abusers parents?

Empathy is felt deeper when it relates to something in your life, I think that's undeniable. I'm not saying that parents are naturally more empathetic. I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, and I'm not saying it's a permanent thing. I'm saying that parents of babies are inclined to be even more distressed about tragedies involving babies. Parents of teenagers might be more distressed about teen tragedies. People caring for a father with dementia may be more distressed hearing about a tragedy involving an elderly man with dementia. It's just the way human beings work. The way the brain distinguishes between threats and how to handle and prevent them, by being on high alert when a situation relates to you. I'm not saying it's positive or negative, it's just biological.

There are plenty of negative things about parents, many are insufferable, boring, selfish, smug, cruel. And there are plenty of negative things about having kids. But if parents keep saying this kind of thing, rather than them lacking empathy before having kids, it might actually be true. Temporarily anyway 😅

Is this true? If so, I'd imagine that these are people who enjoy causing pain, and being able to empathise and feel that pain in your victim may well be part of the appeal. Also, parents are more likely to be in contact with kids so the odds are higher that they will be able to abuse them more easily. It's very sad but true.

I'm selfish. Me and DH were both on the fence about having them, and it just got to a point where we loved our life and didn't want to give it up. We don't regret it for a minute and love not being tied down or limited on what we do.

Also, parents are more likely to be in contact with kids so the odds are higher that they will be able to abuse them more easily. It's very sad but true.

So you understand being a parent isn't a magic wand to creating an empathic and kind adult? Because why would domestic abuse against children exist otherwise?

Currently sitting in a train carriage with two kids watching TV loudly on tablets, one kid with his feet up on the seat next to him so no one can sit there, rustling crisps and shrieks and insane songs deafening even over the tablet noise.

I can't wait to get off and go for lunch and the idea of having to take one or more of these kids with me is bone chilling!

Ask them to turn it down!

I'm 40 years old and childfree by choice, so I'm on your side as it were. But if you have your own child, you instill YOUR value system into them.
So if you think people watching tablets on trains are dicks (I agree wholeheartedly) then you teach your child that it's unacceptable to behave in that way.
Some of my friends have really sweet kids that they've raised really nicely to be decent future citizens. It doesn't mean I want one, but....

Yes of course, there are exceptions to every rule. The vast majority of parents aren't child abusers. Just like the vast majority of cat owners aren't cat abusers. But you will get a small percentage who are. I'd argue that these people would be deficient of empathy with or without kids / cats.

I have found this doesn't usually end well! Never mind, freedom beckons in 20 minutes!

So if all the parents who neglect their children, abuse their children, kill their children or abandon their children have children and lack empathy, maybe some people don’t have children and have empathy…

I don't have a maternal bone in me & have always preferred animals to people, my cat uses up all the nurturing I have

My point is that, if you're an empathetic person, it's entirely possible that your empathy will be enhanced when the tragic story relates to something you care deeply about. That's why these parents are saying to you that, although they were distressed by stories of child abuse before having kids, it now hits even closer to home. Of course people who don't have kids are empathetic. I never questioned that, that would be absurd. But I'm saying in this specific situation, it's entirely possible that people who have a child can relate more deeply to a story about a child being abused. I don't think that's a controversial or illogical thing to say.

Feet on seat kid is annoyed with loud shout-prattling toddler and keeps hissing "shhhh" behind his hand 🤣

I have really significant objections to the idea that you choose not to have children.
No. You don't.

You choose to have children.
It's an opt-in system, not an opt-out system.

The idea that women choose not to have children suggests motherhood is compulsory.

For me, it was never a decision. I always knew from as far back as I could remember that I didn't want children.

To be fair, we grew up being told that it was the path to joy and that it's a great tragedy not to have any. Overcoming all that baggage really is a choice. I have been sure since I could understand the concept of motherhood and the older I get the surer I am but it took a lot of work to be confident I wasn't wrong somehow.

That’s what I’m saying if it hits harder once you have children then I believe you’re a selfish person. The same for any of the other examples you’ve given. If I got a dog and suddenly felt more empathy for abused dogs I’d be ashamed of myself for being a cold and selfish person because I can only empathise properly when it relates to me.

'Other people's children was also a reason for me, to be honest. I can imagine nature making you love your own but you're now totally exposed to all the other horrors (unless you moved to a lighthouse I suppose).'

One of the main reasons I didn't want children (apart from never wanting children ). If we'd had a child/children I know we would have loved them and done our best for them, but the thought of having to interact with other kids in giving our child a well rounded childhood? No thanks.

I didn't have children because I'm not maternal in any way. I feel no longing for a child at all. It wasn't because I like my freedom, like to lie in bed late (I'm usually up by 6), like to travel, have a high powered job, am selfish, shallow, or any of the other reasons given for being child free. I've just never felt the need, and don't believe my life would be enhanced at all.

Sure.

Every time I've had sex for the last 25 years, from 15 to 40, I've actively chosen to use contraception. Therefore, I have chosen not to have children.
It's not been a passive situation.
If you have a normally-functioning reproductive system, then it could be argued that having children is the default.

Biologically, I agree that, if you are sexually active, the default is to have children (subject to any fertility problems). However, virtually everyone in high-income countries now uses contraception some of the time, so most are choosing to get pregnant, when they do, though, of course, some pregnancies still occur through rape/coercion and some through contraception failure.

But I'm saying in this specific situation, it's entirely possible that people who have a child can relate more deeply to a story about a child being abused.

The danger with this is that you end up - as has happened to me both irl and on MN - with parents saying that they have a deeper empathy for those who experience child abuse than adults who actually experienced child abuse.

That's why I don't like it when parents try to claim they have a deeper empathy than non-parents, simply by virtue of having kids.

But I'm saying in this specific situation, it's entirely possible that people who have a child can relate more deeply to a story about a child being abused.

Is there any actual evidence for this celebrated parental empathy or is it just one of those things that becomes a fact if its stated long and loudly enough? I was watching a BBC2 programme last night about the police investigating cold case sex crimes against children, and listening to one victim last night I had to mute it for a bit because his agony, even after 40 years, was heart-rending. I can't imagine anyone, whatever their parental status, not being affected by something like that.

It might be true but why the need for parents to say it constantly on tragic stories? It just comes across as attention seeking. "Oh look at me I'm a parent of a child vaguely the same age as the one in the story and I'm sooo upset right now because I have kids, I'm hugging them sooo tight tonight, as a parent this is so heart-breaking" they could all do that in private without telling the world how affected they apparently are. And the irony when the reason something tragic happened in the first place is probably that a parent or their partner hurt/killed the child...