Maternity Leave Equivalent (Wild Speculation)

[NeonSoda]

So I was wildly speculating with a friend last night, and I said that I thought it would be wonderful if child-free people could have the same 52 week x £172 benefit given as maternity leave, but without having to have a child.

If that was something you could opt to receive, as a childfree person, what would you do with your 52 weeks of subsidised break from full-time employment?

(NB - the condition here is that you cannot do your job for those 52 weeks and also receive the money, just like a person on maternity leave can't.)

But offering leave to everyone might go someway towards levelling out the career disadvantages women can suffer through being out of the workplace during maternity leave.

@Boomboom22 Society would collapse if noone had children so it cannot be described as a lifestyle choice

In a country and society with access to contraception and abortion, it absolutely is a lifestyle choice in the majority of cases. Don't act as though people are having children to be altruistic

@YireosDodeAver Surely it would be demonstrably discriminatory to offer this brilliant opportunity only to non-parents

Of course it would, in reality, which is why this could never happen, as being childfree isn't a protected characteristic. This is a theoretical discussion. Does something happen when you give birth, where you lose your imagination or something? Anyway, in the fantasy world, you'd have already used your year off and chosen to raise children with it.

Exactly. It's a 100-percent optional lifestyle choice.

What the actual fuck😶

There is something wrong with you.

Maybe work on that reading comprehension a tad.

"Let me come onto this thread and post what I wanted to without reading any of it."

So far away from what's actually happened it's almost funny.

That certainly is a hot take.

No one has said that. What is your problem? I thought last night you were maybe drunk or something but I guess not.

I'm absolutely disgusted by the posts of some mothers on this thread. Especially the most recent ones where mothers have come in, seen the vitriol directed at childless and childfree people, read the hurt that's caused childfree people and then decided to deliberately misunderstand the post and 'defend' maternity leave when it isn't needed but the defence of childless women is. I'm so, so grateful for my own mother who would never speak like that about childless or childfree women and I hope more than anything that none of these posters children are childfree or childless because the awful to be thought of like that by the woman who is supposed to be your mother. Absolutely disgusting.

In my fantasy world thought experiment there is no need to have protected characteristics because it’s a decent and just place to live.

I don't think so. Women having children would still be obliged to take the time in their 20s and 30s while others were striving to build a career, because biology. Everyone else could then establish their career, get some savings behind them and then take the time in their 50s, say, when they would have much more freedom. There is no way to cut this as not being discriminatory against women.

Not to mention returning to work rested and recharged after a sabbatical, as opposed to exhausted and stressed over childcare arrangements after maternity leave.

Sabbaticals for all. Great. Maternity leave is not a sabbatical.

It is a choice. No one is forced to do it. And no one has children in order to maintain society. They have them because they want them. It’s a personal choice to fulfil a personal want. But no on3 is saying maternity leave is unfair.

Sadly I think the lesson here is don't post about your fantasy land speculation because someone will always take it for reality, assume you mean it and act as if you're attacking them personally.

As we've seen.

@ColleenDonaghy that would still be a choice though! If a woman wanted a child (and I should highlight here that I am a fence sitter, not decidedly CF) they would make the choice to take the time off in their 20s or 30s. It is a choice to stress over childcare arrangements

Just sounds like sexism and hatred towards mothers as usual on this board

I'd ask if you can back that up with evidence, but the last few times that accusation has been made and I've asked I've never received a reply. And FFS get another word other than hate. You've one of the richest languages in the world at your disposal.

The whole board is littered with the deleted posts of mothers and posts about childless women being upset and some in tears but some people like to make things all about them so they can feel special and will literally lie and pretend there's been hatred against them to achieve that goal. It's disgusting and pathetic to reduce another human to tears to try and show them they're not as good\worthy as you and to then like about the situation. No wonder childfree and childless people wanted a space where they could chat and get support. But it'll never happen.

This is one of the few posts I’ve ever see that actually demands that justifiably much hated MN response “are you on glue?” It’s that far from reality.

You do notice that it's a load of your comments that have been deleted right?

That literally not one person has mentioned abortion or taking away maternity leave except you?

That noone was talking about parents at all?

That it's a made up thought experiment?

You have been beyond horrible on this thread. You've been rude, offensive and incredibly insensitive.

I'll say it again, this is the childfree board. If you don't like the fact it exists, speak to MNHQ. Noone here has the power to introduce or take away boards.

In the meantime, I seriously think we should ignore posts from @Notinthegroupchats

Once again I'm going to refer back to your posts on another thread where you moan about your higher rate tax being used on child benefit and how you don't want your tax paying for other people's benefits.

Given the 2 child benefit cap directly correlates to a massive increase in the abortion rate I would say you have actually advocated for abortions, parents and children being in poverty and treating children as a lifestyle choice far more effectively than any post by a childfree person on this thread.

If there's one thing this thread proves, it's that the patriarchy is alive and well and succeeds in its job of pitting women against women.

We are all fucked by the way the world works. We're fucked if we try and raise children in the face of crippling nursery fees if we try and keep careers on track and feed the housing debt that now requires two salaries. We're fucked by the plague of feckless men who seem incapable of taking an equal role in family life, who don't split finances fairly, who see child costs as the mother's responsibility while racking up huge personal savings pots themselves. We're fucked by the laws that keep unmarried women vulnerable and trapped in unhealthy relationships because they'll get nothing if they split. (Source for these points: dozens of MN threads in the past week alone).

So bravo, ladies. Let's keep fighting each other while men keep winning. Ideas like @NeonSoda's here contain the tiny possibility that there's a different way of doing things. Which could, I genuinely believe, benefit more than one group of people in direct and indirect ways. But there's too much vested interest in maintaining the status quo for the human race to dig itself out of the shithole we are in.

I'd say 'thank god I chose not to have children and subject them to this future' but I can predict all too well the responses I'd get from parents for expressing that view on the board for CHILDFREE MUMSNETTERS.

This isn’t the hot take you think it is. If you’d spent time on the board for Mumsnetters without Children, you’d know that many of us didn’t choose not to have children; that at least I have previously stated that I’m glad things worked out how they have because I wouldn’t want to have to try to help my children navigate the current state of the world; and that nobody ever says that any of things you mention aren’t important.

The really significant bit you’ve failed to take into account here is that the vitriol on these threads is all aimed at non-parents by parents. But that message, and a request for proof of the oft-quoted examples of hatred for parents, seems never to penetrate the minds of the parents who come here to tell us how terrible we are. Surely solidarity among women should go both ways?

@APocketOfGooseFood I think I'm in violent agreement with you. I do spend a lot of time round these parts because I am CF (by choice, personally, but I'm not so blind that I know others are here not by choice). I don't profess for my post to be a hot take, any more than any other post would be, just my observation based on real life and what passes for real life on MN.