Maternity Leave Equivalent (Wild Speculation)

[NeonSoda]

So I was wildly speculating with a friend last night, and I said that I thought it would be wonderful if child-free people could have the same 52 week x £172 benefit given as maternity leave, but without having to have a child.

If that was something you could opt to receive, as a childfree person, what would you do with your 52 weeks of subsidised break from full-time employment?

(NB - the condition here is that you cannot do your job for those 52 weeks and also receive the money, just like a person on maternity leave can't.)

I have no problem with the idea of this board, actually I think it's a really good idea. Infertility is heartbreaking and what could be more feminist than the choice not to have children. There are of course also women in this section who did have maternity leave but tragically have no living children.

But of course if you start a thread with maternity leave in the title you're going to attract comments from women who've taken maternity leave regardless of where it's posted. I do think that was intentional. There were also posts earlier in the thread blaming women for men's terrible behaviour and I'll call that out any time I see it.

OP's suggestion was that everyone gets two years, and women can choose to use that for maternity leave or something else. Women who have children will still use theirs for maternity and 24/7 caring responsibilities but everyone else gets a bonus two years of fun to be taken whenever they want. That's just shit, and stamps all over women's employment rights as @haribosmarties has eloquently pointed out.

Sabbaticals are great. Maternity leave is not a sabbatical.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

OP's suggestion was that people could take maternity leave OR a sabbatical. So that is giving something extra to everyone except women who have babies, which is discriminatory.

Whilst I appreciate this is the child free board it doesn’t give carte blanche.

Comparing maternity to a sabbatical is never ok. Regardless of whatever fantasy exercise you want to twist this into.

Nothing more to say.

Pregnancy is a biological reality not a lifestyle choice. Some women can live in the illusion they really planned and wished for it.. but for most others it's something that just happened for them.. with a few even being coerced or forced.. and it's not just something you do.. it's something that physically happens to you

pregnancy is ‘something that just happened’ for most? Eh? You do know how women conceive, don’t you? And for the most part they are willing participants in the act rather than unknowing passive partners?

Nope. It’s giving the same thing to everyone- two periods of paid leave. What they choose to do with it is up to them.

Or, going by your logic, only giving paid leave to those who have reproduced is giving something extra to every woman except those who don’t have kids, which is discrimination

@sammylady37 its not something extra. Its a necessity for women to recover from childbirth and for babies to be properly raised for the first year of their lives. Maternity leave is a right not a privilege.
Do you say this to people who get sick leave? Time off for bereavement? I mean what are you on about.. no ones being given anything extra.. they are being protected from exploitation at work by the law covering them when they are at a particularly vulnerable part of their lives.

@sammylady37 would you say that to a man? No. They arent the ones whose careers are negatively effected by childbirth. Yet the women have to pay for having sex do they? No contraception is 100% effective.. abortions are serious medical decisions..
Being infertile isn't a choice, being fertile isn't a choice, having a female reproductive system isn't a choice. No one should be at a disadvantage in the work place due to any of this. Some women are very lucky and seem to have complete control over when they fall pregnant.. but for most its a lottery.. with some women struggling for years to conceive and some falling pregnant instantly after one time, whilst on contraception and not planning it... and everything in between. Stop pretending pregnancy is some kind of lifestyle choice women just stroll down to a shop to buy or something. This is not the reality for most working class women. Pregnancy is a fact of life not some kind of fancy privilege.. and maternity laws are necessary human rights to protect women.
No maternity leave is not just the same as a sabbatical.

Awful human being you are... hope you're more sensitive 'as a mother' otherwise I feel sorry for your family

Ok wow, apparently there are a lot of assholes on this thread, and that does not include my child free buddies who are living in my fantasy thought experiment.

Anyway.

Yes, I used maternity leave as a shorthand. It is the only paid period of time off with a guarantee of returning to your job that I know.

I posted it on my own Facebook wall as well, where I asses the additional stipulation that you get two sabbatical periods in your life, you can’t use them for funded education (ie with student loan), and if two people wanted to raise a child then they must choose to do so together and sacrifice one of their sabbaticals each at the same time.

I truly believe that raising a child is a choice. If you do not want to raise a child there is every opportunity not to. I also believe that as a society we should be having less children, so having to choose between (both) using your sabbatical to have children or using it for something else is one way of encouraging society to have fewer children IN MY FANTASY THOUGHT EXPERIMENT WORLD.

I can’t highlight enough how I am sadly not yet dictator of the world and therefore cannot enforce my fantasy thought experiment world on others. Yet.

Surely it would be demonstrably discriminatory to offer this brilliant opportunity only to non-parents. Why shouldn't I, as a late 40-something woman who happened to take a bit of maternity leave 14-18 years ago, have equal rights to the opportunity to take a year for something like studying or opening a bakery or being an artist or a potter or any of these other brilliant and fulfilling ideas? I think a society where anyone can take say one year "out" for every 7 years of full NI contributions would be brilliant and would nuture a spirit of creativity and entrepreneurship which would be beneficial to the country. There should be some kind of gatekeeping to ensure that each individual had a plan to do something positive with their time not just spend it doing nothing. But it would be utterly repellant to restrict such opportunities for creativity and self-reinvention only to those who aren't mothers. It should be completely separate and unaffected by whether or not one has had any maternity leave.

In my fantasy world raising a child is very much a choice.

therefore prospective parents can choose to use their sabbatical for raising a child, or they can choose to use it for something else.

the choice is there and the individual would need to make it. If people rate child-rearing over something else then that’s what they choose. If they’d rather spend a year doing DIY or something than raising a child, then that choice is also there.

a reminder that you are on the board specifically for people without children.

Its a necessity for women to recover from childbirth and for babies to be properly raised for the first year of their lives

But for the most part, getting pregnant and continuing that pregnancy is a choice. That choice comes with risks, benefits, consequences, as all major choices do, but particularly in western society today, having a baby is a choice.

would you say that to a man? No.

Would I say what to a man? That pregnancy is something that people generally plan for and want to happen and it’s not something that “just happens”? Of course I would. Why wouldn’t I?

Stop pretending pregnancy is some kind of lifestyle choice women just stroll down to a shop to buy or something

It is a choice. You may not like hearing that, but it’s the reality, particularly in countries like Britain with such access to education, healthcare and abortion. Of course, it’s harder for some people to achieve it, but that still doesn’t mean they aren’t choosing it. The poster (you?) claiming it’s something that “just physically happens” as if people have no means of controlling that is being ridiculous.

Men can, there is shared parental leave.
I think Maternity leave is a funny one, sort of half sick leave, half carer's leave.

I would run everyday, travel extensively, cook and read. That is exactly what I intend to do when I take my hugely generous public sector pension in 7 years at 55.

Some people on this thread should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. Personal attacks are totally unnecessary.

How would it work though, if you accidentally got pregnant having had this 'single person's leave' or if you got someone else pregnant?

What if it was in a different job?

How is this really any different to just taking a year off (either as a sabbatical, or on savings)

The leave isn't really for the adult anyway, it's for the baby, so there's no missing entitlement for single people (technically they already used it when they were a baby themselves)

How is this really any different to just taking a year off (either as a sabbatical, or on savings)

The job security. The fact that you have somewhere to return. That's the point. Also that many, many, many places simply don't offer sabbatical.

In my fantasy world, accidental pregnancies are exceedingly rare because we have exceptional sexual health teaching, access to women's healthcare, and other services that make having a child a choice by the parents, not an accident.

And we have a system that tracks it across your different employments, probably related to National Insurance.

It's different to taking a year off on savings because of the guarantee you could step back into your job role after your year off, just like maternity leave, and the fantasy government subsidises it.

Just sounds like sexism and hatred towards mothers as usual on this board. Society would collapse if noone had children so it cannot be described as a lifestyle choice. It is in no way unfair that parents get parental leave ffs.

Please show me the sexism or hatred, on this or any other post on this board.

The worst post I've seen is a now deleted by MNHQ post from a mother.

No one has said parental leave is unfair.

Some are kind of missing point that fathers would have that leave too and obviously would be expected to take it for children. Would be a good filter for potential mating partners if he would be adamant about not wanting to take it....
Only ones making it look like mothers would suffer are the mothers, sorry.

Either way, IMAGINARY scenario 🤷

The premise that maternity leave is a holiday and a lifestyle choice is that it is not fair or favouring mothers over the child free which is sexist as it continues the oppression of women for their biology, which is fundamental to feminists. It is certainly an anti feminist premise.

BTW maternity and pregnancy are equally protected characteristics as sex and age and race.