Long rambling, trying to get my head straight, no need to read, I just need to write this down somewhere

[Notmyregularnameforthis]

Sorry to anyone who might read this. It is long and is a bit rambling. I'm still trying to work this out in my head a bit but if anyone does reply I'd welcome other points of view to help me get my head straight.

I've always found that when people find out I don't have children, and that it is NOT because of infertility, I don't often get support, sympathy or understanding from them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not seeking attention, support, sympathy etc, or wanting/needing it. Usually I just don't mention anything about having children or not, and reveal that I'm child free only when directly asked, but I don't tend to elaborate on why I don't have them.

When I do I get asked if it was because of infertility and I reply no, not that, I then get a sort of 'oh' kind of response, and a brief uncomfortable silence. Luckily I have become quite good at quickly changing the subject.

Sometimes however, and these times really prey on me, I get a comment like oh, but didn't you want them? And there is no simple answer to that.

I can see people with children, and I can see the joy (and sometimes heartache) that they bring. I can see, too, that to be a good parent you really do need to always put your children first, and be giving, loving and unselfish.

There are times it has been inferred to me that I must be very selfish not to have/want children. As if I have put my own needs above anything else.

The truth is so complex. I was adopted. I had an adopted family that was dysfunctional. My grandmother hated my mother. My mother hated me. My father never really wanted to adopt in the first place. I was abused by my grandfather. I was ultimately rejected by my birth mother, too, after finally making contact with her. Basically I had a shit early life until I finally managed to leave home at 17.

I've had no examples in my life of good, healthy, nurturing and loving family relationships. I honestly, even now, feel as if I would have no real idea of how to be a good parent to a child.

So I decided not to have children because quite frankly with my history I was terrified of everything repeating itself, and that I would end up damaging my own child even worse than I was.

So yes, on the surface I live a selfish life. I have my little house, friends, job, car etc. All the trappings and no real responsibilities beyond myself.

But was, or am I selfish? Or was I unselfish because rather than risking hurting my own child because of my own faults, failings and history I gave up the idea of having a child of my own?

I don't know, and I don't know how to find the answer.

I do think that people who decide not to have children tend to make that decision after much more thought and reflection than people who do have children. So many seem to just drift into it as the next thing to do, or because they are bored with life and think that having a child will change that.

And they say we are the selfish ones 🤔

I'm late 30s, so still in my 'childbearing' years technically (but coming to the end of them). I'm hoping once I am clearly past being able to have children the questions will stop. I think partly because a lot of my work circle, and friendship circle are now parents (usually with at least 1 child, and 2nd child on the way or hoped for) when I meet new people through them the topic of kids always seems to be brought up as common ground.

You are all giving me so much food for thought, and I'm especially happy that this thread has helped me feel not so isolated and doubtful of myself. Thank you.

Agree with others suggestions of therapy. Seriously why give a toss if people think you’re selfish or rude for refusing to discuss it? As a PP said, they're adults, they can handle feeling upset, although I’d argue it’s rude of them to ask and probe in the first place and why do you think their feelings trump yours? I understand it’s not that easy to shrug off years of ingrained behaviour but you can start by reframing how you perceive these things. I don’t think you’re selfish at all but I also think, what’s so wrong with being selfish anyway? I’ve never wanted kids and have no qualms telling people (if they ask) that parenthood doesn’t appeal to me at all, I’d rather eat my own eyeballs than enter into it, and - it’s cliche but true - I’d rather have lie ins and spend my money on multiple holidays. I love being selfish and I’m not ashamed of it.

I don't understand why people feel it's 'selfish' not to have children - in fact I'm not sure that's what anyone really thinks any more as we move away from women's only role being home-making. There's nothing inherently 'selfless' in having children; I have two kids but I'd never think someone 'weird' or 'selfish' because they didn't have kids, and I wouldn't consider it any of my business why they don't.

I'm sorry you had such an awful sounding upbringing OP, and I'd totally understand at least feeling ambivalent about having your own kids after that.

With me, it was always the same ‘type’ of person who seemed gobsmacked by my childfreeness — not any of my actual friends or relatives, but friends or family of neighbours I’d not met previously, but encountered at neighbourhood barbecues after I’d moved out of London to a midlands village.

To be blunt, they were dullish suburban 2.4 children/wash the car Saturday mornings types, who found even someone as deeply ordinary as me (being a foreigner, childfree, non-driver who cycled everywhere was wildly unusual in the place I was living) etc, very strange. And yes, once they established it wasn’t an unchosen childlessness, so their sympathetic head tilt wasn’t appropriate, they were sometimes slightly hostile.

There are times it has been inferred to me that I must be very selfish not to have/want children. As if I have put my own needs above anything else.

Being a good parent does require selflessness. However the decision to have children is selfish - you decide it because it's what you want. It's not a selfless act to have a child.

If someone asks if it's due to infertility and you say no and don't follow it up, they probably just don't know how to respond. I'd probably add something like "I just never felt it was for me" if you feel you need to explain. You dont though.

Your not selfish and its nobodys buisness but yours. People make me laugh when they think they can say what they like to you just because you think and live your life different to them.

On the few times I have been asked 'don't you want kids?' I have responded 'no, I like having my time to myself too much.' It usually stops them dead, or I get 'I don't blame you.'

It's a kinder response on my part than 'and put myself and husband before my kids all the time, like mum repeatedly did?' or 'and end up a neurotic, obsessive wreck like my sister?' (which was clearly a result of mum's method of parenting)

Nah, you got off lightly there, you only had to deal with the easy answer.

I find it slightly angering the number of people on here saying they were judged for not having second children. My sister has been one of the most damaging influences in my life and has caused me untold mental health problems. We are now on our second round of not talking because I don't want her in my life, the last eight year stint was only interrupted by necessity of a dying mother. would have killed to be an only child.

OP, therapy helps you to care less if people call you selfish. You really do learn how not to give a shit what others think about you. If someone called me selfish now, I would probably say something like 'it's endearing that you think your opinion of me is important in my life' - because I genuinely don't give a shit. It's very empowering.

You are the absolute opposite of selfish. And same here. My parents should not have had children & my siblings and I all suffered a horrible childhood where we were frightened & sad almost constantly. Out of 5 siblings, only the 2 male ones had children themselves. My 2 sisters & I chose not to have children. Speaking for myself I knew I didn't want to inflict even 1% of the pain I went through.

I used to just laugh when people asked why I didn't have children. That usually shut them up & I didn't care if it upset them.

Very recently I was asked if I have grandchildren! That was a tough surprise to encounter & I found myself explaining all the above, unnecessarily & annoyed at myself for trying to justify myself, only for the stupid woman to completely denigrate my reasons. I wish I'd remembered to just laugh but I was so surprised by the question. So just to let you know, people never stop being nosey. Just remember you owe them no explanation whatsoever & you needn't give a toss what they think.

But I do worry that would be taken as being cold, rude and churlish

Hi OP, you do not owe people an explanation about your decision. Any interpretation people choose to put on that refusal is their problem, not yours.

OP, I'm sorry to hear you had such a tough time growing up. I think your decision to not have children is the complete opposite of selfish.

I would quite like to have a child myself, however I am older now (36) an only child and my partner is also an only child. My potential child would be brought into a very small family (no aunts, uncles or cousins). And I might not be able to fit in a sibling. I find it hard being from such a small family myself, and I do often feel quite 'alone' in the world. Having a child would make me feel less alone, but I think it would be selfish of me. The child would quite possibly feel even more alone than I do.

I find it very weird that people even ask why you don’t have children. It’s a very private and personal thing - infertility or not (as my username suggests, I’ve had trouble conceiving and would probably be very rude to someone if they probed into it without invitation from me!!!)

I’m sorry you’ve been made to feel like you are selfish/cold for not wanting kids. It’s very unfair and unkind of those people, some people just don’t want to have children and that is just as fine as those who do want them.

Easier said than done but try not to let those people get you down xx

My thanks to everyone who has replied; for sharing your own very personal experiences and perspectives, and for the amazing support. You have all helped me realise I do need to make a real change to how I am thinking, feeling and reacting in those moments when I get questioned. Also that I don't need to be so scared about being judged (and found lacking).

And I've taken to heart what so many of you have said, both directly and indirectly, which is that I must learn not to give a shit and stop trying to please everyone. To that end I've rung a counsellor today (a private one who I really like the look of from her website) and have an appointment next week. I'm hoping she can help me unpick everything and put me back together in a healthier way. Time will tell, but I'm hopeful 👍

I'd love to be able to kick ass like many of you do. You are all really inspiring 💐

To be blunt, they were dullish suburban 2.4 children/wash the car Saturday mornings types, who found even someone as deeply ordinary as me (being a foreigner, childfree, non-driver who cycled everywhere was wildly unusual in the place I was living) etc, very strange.

Definitely relate to this - I tick all the boxes in your brackets except I do have one child. Sadly this still makes me suspect as it's not enough children plus I work full time and DH is a SAHD. Some people cannot see beyond their own little norms.

“Conventional people are roused to fury by departure from convention, largely because they regard such departure as a criticism of themselves.”
― Bertrand Russell

I don't consider myself to be (particularly) cold or selfish however I didn't want children because I simply felt it wasn't the road for me. It always felt like something other people did.

I do not dislike children at all, I think they are lovely, fun, charming little people (for the most part 😀). I do occasionally feel a little sad that I won't have a family around me when I'm old and that this is the end of my family line however I just never felt any sort of push or desire to have a child. it is such a big undertaking and I just did want to do it.

Even in my 30s/40s I was not asked this very often but if someone asked if I had children I simply said "no". If they persevered I would say something like "it just wasn't for me." If anything the response to that statement has been "fair play" or similar. I have never felt judged for my decision.

You have very valid reasons OP, you really don't need to explain yourself to us or to anyone else.

There are times it has been inferred to me that I must be very selfish not to have/want children. As if I have put my own needs above anything else.

It could be argued that having a baby, especially in these current times, is the ultimate in putting your own needs first.

Sometimes however, and these times really prey on me, I get a comment like oh, but didn't you want them? And there is no simple answer to that.

The simple answer is 'no', you don't owe anyone an explanation beyond that. This isn't a you problem it's a them problem.

This. In my 20's I used to go down the jokey route - "can you imagine, I can barely look after myself HAHAHA".

Now I simply say I don't want them, and couldn't care less about what people say in return.