Long rambling, trying to get my head straight, no need to read, I just need to write this down somewhere

[Notmyregularnameforthis]

Sorry to anyone who might read this. It is long and is a bit rambling. I'm still trying to work this out in my head a bit but if anyone does reply I'd welcome other points of view to help me get my head straight.

I've always found that when people find out I don't have children, and that it is NOT because of infertility, I don't often get support, sympathy or understanding from them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not seeking attention, support, sympathy etc, or wanting/needing it. Usually I just don't mention anything about having children or not, and reveal that I'm child free only when directly asked, but I don't tend to elaborate on why I don't have them.

When I do I get asked if it was because of infertility and I reply no, not that, I then get a sort of 'oh' kind of response, and a brief uncomfortable silence. Luckily I have become quite good at quickly changing the subject.

Sometimes however, and these times really prey on me, I get a comment like oh, but didn't you want them? And there is no simple answer to that.

I can see people with children, and I can see the joy (and sometimes heartache) that they bring. I can see, too, that to be a good parent you really do need to always put your children first, and be giving, loving and unselfish.

There are times it has been inferred to me that I must be very selfish not to have/want children. As if I have put my own needs above anything else.

The truth is so complex. I was adopted. I had an adopted family that was dysfunctional. My grandmother hated my mother. My mother hated me. My father never really wanted to adopt in the first place. I was abused by my grandfather. I was ultimately rejected by my birth mother, too, after finally making contact with her. Basically I had a shit early life until I finally managed to leave home at 17.

I've had no examples in my life of good, healthy, nurturing and loving family relationships. I honestly, even now, feel as if I would have no real idea of how to be a good parent to a child.

So I decided not to have children because quite frankly with my history I was terrified of everything repeating itself, and that I would end up damaging my own child even worse than I was.

So yes, on the surface I live a selfish life. I have my little house, friends, job, car etc. All the trappings and no real responsibilities beyond myself.

But was, or am I selfish? Or was I unselfish because rather than risking hurting my own child because of my own faults, failings and history I gave up the idea of having a child of my own?

I don't know, and I don't know how to find the answer.

You are definitely not selfish.
I chose not to have children for equally complicated reasons: in my case a mother who didn't want them, but had us because she was catholic and it was expected of her by society. She had no maternal instinct and barely could be bothered to look after us.

From her side, she was forced into marrying my father by her bullying parents who felt that at 22 she would be left on the shelf and not find anyone. They were embarrassed for how that made them look as a prominent catholic family.

My father was slightly older, very awkward and, I now suspect, on the spectrum. He is a good dad now, but didn't really know what to do with us when he was younger so left it all to my mother.

My mother, at the time of her marriage, was working as a beautician and hairdresser. She was very glamorous and very successful in that field and there was talk of her being headhunted by a famous salon in London (they were in Glasgow). Marriage and babies ended those dreams abruptly and she eventually became very bitter and resentful of my siblings and I having freedom to go out and do what we wanted to do. All of us have successful careers and two of us (out of the 5) have decided not to have children because of our upbringing and because we had no desire to end up like our mother - who, y that time was an alcoholic who eventually died of pancreatic cancer.

It would have been easy, when I was married, to have had children. He wanted them, he would have been a good dad I think, and it was - still js - what socoety expects.

But I and my siblings made the difficult decision to go against society because we knew that it was the wrong thing for us. We didn't consider those hypothetical children, so I guess that's why we are classed as selfish, but who does consider hypothetical humans?

I think that my mother would have had a better life, a happier and more fulfilled life if she had not married or had children.

You are definitely not selfish. It sounds like you have made a very sensible and considered decision, much more considered than a lot of people who have ended up having kids without really thinking about it. I’m surprised about people asking you about why you don’t have kids, I wouldn’t even imagine doing that. You could start being more firm so they learn it’s inappropriate-tell then it’s none of their business!!

Thank you for replying. There are so many layers to our decisions aren't there? I hate it when people simplify it down to oh, if you don't want children it must be because you are too cold/selfish.

It's not selfish to not want kids. You only get one kick at the ball and if you choose to spend your life childfree then that's a perfectly acceptable decision which doesn't affect anyone other than you.

As long as you are happy with your decision and don't have any regrets, then I would encourage you not to dwell on other peoples opinions. They're irrelevant.

It's no one's business whether you have kids or not. And you aren't selfish at all.

The decision to have children is an intensely personal one. I was also adopted by (what I now realise) two people so damaged by their own childhoods that they should not have been parents. I didn't have children by choice, no because of my upbringing, but simply because I didn't want them.

The internet is responsible for a lot of bad things but highlighting and preventing generational abuse/ignorance/trauma is one of (many) good things it has helped enormously with. No more "well if it was good enough for me" or "I got beaten as a child, did me no harm". You might not know how to be a mother but you know what NOT to do.

You would very much benefit from counselling or therapy to be comfortable with who you are and to deal with your past experiences.

Absolutely not selfish, OP. I can slightly relate to your situation - late 30s and grew up in an abusive household, worrying about the effects this could have on my own child. I’m seriously considering it at the moment.
It’s also really inappropriate (and quite odd) that people would assume/ask you about infertility. Absolutely none of their business about your reasons and not something you should feel you have to offer any ‘explanation’ on.

My view is that the most unselfish thing you can do for a child is to start from the perspective of: “am I capable of raising this child to feel loved, safe and happy?”

My parents and grandparents were unable to do this, but due to the times they lived in, either had no choice or felt like there was no choice. As a result, there are three generations of trauma in my family, both sides.

I couldn’t be confident that I could answer that question with a yes, so I chose not to gamble. And as it happens I now can’t have kids anyway. But I think choosing the circumstances in which a child does or doesn’t grow up is the most selfless thing you can do.

Very few parents, in my experience, make having kids contingent on an affirmative answer to that question. And some of them really should have.

You aren't selfish. At all.

You've thought carefully and made a decision but even if you had no good reason and just thought 'fuck no!', it's still a valid choice. It's nobody else's business.

In pretty much every human society,

woman = mother = selfless

Ergo any woman not being a mother must be the opposite eg selfish.

Just think of all the pressure and judgment put on mothers too who don't fit that image of being a mother.

This dynamic of woman = saintly mother screws women over no matter what they choose.

Not having children is the opposite of selfish.
Creating a life because you want to, is in many ways, about the most selfish thing you can do IMO.

Not selfish not to have DC!

People asking why you don’t are rude.

You don’t have to answer the Q. An option is to say something like ‘I’d rather not discuss it’.

Surely no decision to not have children is selfish?

Thank you all so much for replying and sharing some of your own equally complex reasons and experiences. I really didn't expect many replies.

I think one of my hurdles now is that I am a people pleaser, a trait learned as a child in order to avoid or reduce the abuse. Now I struggle because to 'please' society I feel I should have had children. But as some of you have rightly pointed out, I shouldn't let what other people think of me hurt so much.

You're not selfish at all. You don't have to explain anything to anyone.

It's your decision and I'm happy for you.

Not remotely selfish. I do have children and have had to bring them up by myself. No input from their dad whatsoever.

Every decision I make, I have to put them first. Literally, everything. Whether I can go full time, where to go on holiday, what car to buy, whether I've got time to go for a dog walk before I have to drive them somewhere, what to make for tea It goes on and on!

I'm lucky in that I've never resented it and genuinely love my life. But for people who have children and don't put them first - I think that's the biggest act of selfishness ever.

You are literally the opposite of those people. If I met you and you told me what you've written here I'd tell you how much I respected you for your decision.

One of the truly breakthrough moments in my therapy journey was having a therapist say, when I pointed out that something I wanted to say or do might upset someone, “so? They’re a grown adult. They can handle being upset. It’s a normal experience and they’ll cope”.

It genuinely had not occurred to me until my late 30s that this could be true.

And it liberated me. I don’t go out of my way to hurt people but I’ve stopped living in a way that prioritises not doing so at all costs.

I think counselling would be a good idea, thank you for that suggestion. I'll definitely look into it. And since I am childfree I can afford it (ironic humour .. not intended to be offensive)

It's only been a relatively short time since women were able to make the choice not to be Mothers, people take time to accept change. If people ask why you don't have to tell them Op, just say it won't be happening and change the subject. And you're not selfish, I've always said the kindest thing I did for my DC was not having them

I’m sorry your early years were so difficult. Of course you’re not selfish. I was happily childfree with absolutely no desire or intention to have a child till I was 40. And I had all those bizarre responses from other people.

Then I had my son. I can assure I am exactly as selfish/unselfish as I was before I had him.

(And it might amuse you to hear that the type of person who thought I was selfish not to have a child moved on to me being selfish to have only one child by choice. I conclude some people (a) need to have their own life choices validated by other people making the same ones and (b) are deeply suspicious of anyone making the choice that looks objectively ‘easier’ than theirs and that reminds them that in a world with contraception and legal terminations, having children is just that, a choice. Not compulsory. )

@Lehenaghmore That last bit is so true. Don’t live to satisfy society, OP, as it cannot be satisfied. Women especially are always doing something wrong.

I've had no examples in my life of good, healthy, nurturing and loving family relationships. I honestly, even now, feel as if I would have no real idea of how to be a good parent to a child.

You would. You would do the opposite of what you had.

But that's beside the point. People who question you are bloody rude. I never wanted a baby (until I did!) and after I had her I decided that one was enough. The amount of people that asked me when the next one would be along and when I said no, no more, told me I was selfish and going to damage my child by not giving them a sibling was incredible. I found it easier to say "actually I've just lost a baby and had to have an operation which means I'm not able to have any more" (which was partly true). "And by you asking me that is incredibly rude and upsetting to me" haha I loved to see them squirm and try and get themselves out of that hole!

Thank you to everyone replying - I'm a little overwhelmed.

Mostly I try and avoid the do you have children question as much as I can. But the truth is I am ashamed of my reasons as I do slightly feel I've been a coward somehow by not dealing with my own damage and overcoming it. Also, I don't want to admit my real reasons because I hate feeling like a victim, feeling damaged and dirty(?) and having people pity me. I have built a good life, and I've worked hard, and I do have a lot to be thankful for. I just try and concentrate on that.

I am definitely taking on board what many of you have said. I do need to practice saying I'd prefer not to discuss it. But I do worry that would be taken as being cold, rude and churlish.

How old are you OP? I'm wondering why people feel the need to ask. I'm childfree, and in my late 30s and never get asked that question. I sometimes wonder if it'll come later in life when having children isn't a possibility.

Anyway, you're not selfish at all and don't need a reason to not have children.

@Notmyregularnameforthis your difficult childhood has made it hard for you to stand up for yourself, you've learnt not to upset anyone, to be a people pleaser, to care too much what they think of you. Therapy could help with this, help you to see you don't need to hide your real self anymore. I wish you luck