Is this reasonable to ask an au pair.....

[CoffeeAndCarrotCake]

We've found a great girl from Poland who is going to be our au pair, but as I'm new to this, can you tell me if this sounds reasonable (don't worry, I'm thick skinned):

• 8am - 12noon: do housework (general cleaning, cooking for DD, ironing, etc.)
• 12noon: collect DD from nursery and play with / feed her till either DH gets home or bath and bed time at 7

This would be 4 days a week; the other 3 days and most evenings would be her time, unless we asked her to babysit (no extra pay). She'd have own bedroom and ensuite and food etc. No car as she can't drive, but I'll pay for all travel costs and entry tickets to play centres etc. We live just outside of London (inside M25) and would pay £90/wk.

Am I asking too much or being had?! Thanks for the input!

I am not sure there would be enough for 4 hours cleaning evry day.

I had to clean the baby's room, play room and bathroom daily in my first live in nanny job and that only took about an hour, if that.

moondog swears at everyone though, don't take it personally

My first ap didn't want to study and learn the language other than speaking to us and watching tv. Not all aps wish to attend classes. Mine certainly didn't, nor did she wish to meet people her own age. She was in almost all the time - her choice. Also, she realised that not only did she not like younger children, she didn't like teenagers that much either but she really wanted to stay so we upped the housework as it was all she wanted to do. I suggested that she get a second job as she was working 20 hours for £60 and had lots of spare time, but she didn't want to.

Just a question for everyone who uses Au-pairs
Do you ever check that they have first aid training? That they can get help in an emergency?
It's just that everyone is very strict about UK childcarers, nannies and nurseries but some people will let a young person into their house and think that they would be OK to have sole charge all day of their most precious children?
Au-pairs are supposed to be like mother's helps, they are not supposed to have sole charge of children and they should not be taken advantage of.
They are not nannies on the cheap.

Right - I've spoken with her and we've figured out that what we were asking her to do in the house would only take her 1hr per day (or she could of course do it all in one go on one day). DH will be in the house when she's here with DH but wouldn't accompany her to nursery to collect her, so she'd be in sole charge for a 15 minute walk!

SO she'd be with DD for 6.5 hrs per day (26hrs/wk) and would do 4hrs cleaning / tidying per week. So for 30hrs per week, she said she was happy with £90 (plus room, which goes for £150 per week in this area, plus internet, en suite, food, bills, phone, travel). I've upped it to £100 anyway.
The equivalent of £250 per week would work out at £8.33/per hour, so no, I would not have any problem with my DD telling me she wanted to do that when she was older and wanting to travel.

Thanks again for all your comments - they've helped me to reach the right agreement with auP. I guess I'm not as thick skinned as I thought though, as I'm shaking now after reading some of them. I'll be a bit more careful what I ask in future!

with respect, its not that difficult. if she was coming with you to help look after your kids on a day out (adult entry) that that is your expense, not hers, like any other job, and if not then you should make that clear. presents/flights etc are your choice and nothing to do with it.

go onto a local website and find out what a lodger, not a tenant, would pay. and to calculate food, divide your current family food bill by the number of people in your family. if you are serious about elec etc, then do the same with your bills.

i'm sorry - but i find this really problematic. the deal with an au pair is that they trade some help with your kids/cleaning for board, lodgings and some time to study the language. they arent cleaners and nannys for people who wont pay the going rate. if you want a nanny, or cleaner, then pay one properly.

minimum wage is £5.52ph.
www.hmrc.gov.uk/nmw/#b

also: www.aupair.uk.com/FamilyHelp.asp

What are the differences between an au pair / au pair+ and a nanny?
Au Pair (Live In)
Works a maximum of 25 hours a week and a maximum of 2 evenings baby-sitting for a minimum of £60 per week
Family gives full board, own room and two consecutive days off (these do not have to be on the weekend, but with the au pair's previous agreement)
This type of applicant can look after children of school age and is not qualified in child care. They can only look after babies or children under school age if a parent is at home and the level of responsibility should be kept to a minimum as English is not the applicant?s first language. This is for the safety of your children
The applicant comes from one of the 27 EEC countries, and does not require a Visa to au pair in the UK. However, applicants from Turkey do still require a Visa. On our site, Turkish applicants should already be in the UK, or have gone home for a period of time, but in possession of a valid au pair Visa. It is the family?s responsibility to check the applicant has a valid Visa and is allowed to au pair in the UK
An au pair can look after children, O.A.P.s, help you get around if you are disabled in any way

well said ripeberry - agree with all you have said

coffeecake glad you got it sorted with your au pair and none of us are that thick skinned when we are having different opinions thrown at us left,right and centre xx

How old is your child?
Is she really going to be AT HOME with her for four days per week for 6 1/2 hours?
Wouldnt they both be bored senseless?

Unless child is a baby, you might want to find out about local toddler groups to go to, or classes such as monkey music, gymboree, etc.

Then you have to add the cost of the classes and the group, and provide your au pair with a bus pass, and a mobile phone, as it is in your interest to be able to reach your au pair when she is out and about, and for HER to contact you in an emergency.

4x11= 44 hours

Max number of hours for an aupair is around the 20 mark. Up to 25 if you're desperate

So it sounds like far far too much tbh

Surprised the agency didn't tell you

Or are we atlking about an aupair plus? Seems too much for an AP+ as well mind you

Sounds like she would be sole charge in reality.

Maybe a mother's help is more what you need as they are allowed some sole charge I think.

Nannies on the cheap are exactly what au pairs are though - that's the whole point isn't it? If what you need is someone to take your kids home from school and play with them for 2 or 3 hours until you get home, and to help you out at Legoland on Saturday, and there are lots of nice young people with character references wanting to learn English and looking for cheap accommodation, then you've got a deal. No particular reason for being all hoity toity about it. I have an au pair for this reason and everyone is happy. No way I would or could pay a fortune to a nanny to do the same thing.

No, au pairs are not cheap nannies.

ap+ can do up to 40 hours per week according to some agencies, but all this nonsense about not allowed sole charge? It is RECOMMENDED that an AP is not left in sole charge of a child under 2.

My best AP was a qualified nursery teacher (has settled here and is my DS' LSA and works PT at a Montesorri), my current AP is a qualified children's swim coach - both have first aid certs and police checks from home country. Are you genuinely suggesting that neither of them are capable of caring for a child under 2?

To all the doubters (hours/wages aside) how old is the youngest babysitter you have ever used? Did they have a first aid cert and a crb check?

And do all the mums and dads out there have a first aid cert of their own?

Anyway, aps are not slaves. You tell them what you want them to do and how much you're going to pay, and they decide whether they want to come or not.

Au pairs can have some sole charge of children over 2 but not too long. I think it's perfectly reasonable to leave them with a child over 2 for an hour or so whilst you do the school run and rush round the supermarket and it's also fine for them to walk to school / nursery pick the children up and bring them and look after them for a couple of hours until you get home from work / whilst you take other children to activities. If not, then I am not sure what they do especially if people say that they don't ask their aupairs to clean either.

It's perfectly fine to ask them to clean your house, dust, hoover, do the bathrooms and the kids washing and a pile of ironing for some of their hours. It's not ok to ask them to clean the oven, do gardening, scrub the kitchen cupboards and clean your car, just as it's not ok to leave them in sole charge all day.

I read somewhere that you should ask yourself. "is this something I Would be happy for my 18-21 year old daughter to do?" If the answer is yes, then you are probably being reasonable.

am amazed by some of the comments about au pairs on here and the assumption that an au pair of 21 or 22 who has some childcare experience (as many do), or even who does not, would somehow magically be unable to be trusted with your child even for an hour, while a nanny would automatically be just fine with sole charge for long days even though she might have very little experience.

we have had both au pairs and nannies and I can say the best nanny we had was an ex au pair with 2 years experience (as au pair, mind you, but where she was basically left in sole charge of 3 kids for many hours every week and was fine with that). She had no formal childcare training or qualifications but was head and shoulders above any qualified nanny we worked with in terms of attitude, love for dc, and level of responsibility and communicativeness. She did not feel exploited by her original au pair family, she loved them and loved the kids and was glad to be part of a happy family and have the chance to gain some experience and live in the UK to work on her English.

there is no rule that au pairs cannot have sole charge of children - that is what virtually everyone uses them for, and that is normally the major part of the job. not all of us can afford to employ qualified nannies if we don't need full-time care, and frankly I'd rather know my dcs are home with an au pair whom I know and who lives with us and can take them to the park and get their tea ready, than at random afterschool clubs watching videos or sitting at a childminder's house with a lot of babies.

It really is a matter of the individual being up to the task, and that is a judgment call that only the mom and dad of the household can make, whether it is an au pair or a nanny. I totally agree that most au pairs are not ideal for full-time childcare but many are happy to work extra hours for extra pay and I don't see why that should be a huge problem as long as no one is being forced to do things against their will. Coffeeandcarrotcake, it sounds to me like you have come to a reasonable arrangement with your new AP and I hope she works out well for you.

no - most mums and dads prob dont have 1st aid - though maybe they should do a course fortheir own peace of mind

but they are not being paid - an au pair is, therefore they should be able to speak the basic english and know some first aid incase of an emergancy - would they know to ring 999 for example

and NO NO NO au pairs are not cheap nannies - though many think they are

they are there for a few hours a day to help not sole charge for 10hrs + as a nanny would/should be

i have said on many threads on here, it really bugs me that people say that - nanny and au pairs and mother helps are ALL different, and all should do different roles

coffeeandcarrotcake, you are generous to pay your aupair £100 per week for 30 hours' work. The description of work seems at the right level of responsibility.

It is for you to agree these terms with your aupair and she is justifiably more than happy. You judge each aupair on her merits and abilities and adjust the terms accordingly. I did not intend my aupair to have sole charge but because she was mature and I trusted her over time, I used her for more sole charge than I originally intended (not nanny hours though).

Your aupair, being Polish, is from the EU. You can agree any number of hours and job description (sole charge, housework) with her. She is free to accept or decline. As you say, she Asked to do more hours cleaning for more pay - and why not? Not all aupairs are here to learn English or take classes.

She can walk any time and vote with her feet and get another aupair position on nannyjob, gumtree or whatever. You are not bound by VISA requirements. It is demand and supply. She has other aupair friends, she knows the ropes and won't be exploitable, even if you tried, which you are not doing.

Picking up from Mizzan's post. I currently employ a 21 year old nanny to look after my kids all day in the school hols. When we first employed her she was a student teacher, she has now finished her degree and starts primary school teaching in Sept. She was previously an au pair abroad, and is just a very sensible woman. She finds it very strange that in a couple of weeks time we will have an au pair from Germany (but with very good English) who is 22 years old, also 2 years into a teaching degree but with 18 months nursery nurse experience, yet I will only leave au pair sole charge of the children for a maximum of 1.45 hours!

Oh and coffeeandcarrotcake - I think that £100 for 30 hours is fine (I think most au pairs round here who do 30 hours get £90 plus use of car).

Hours are too long as the au pair will need time to go to college. We pay £80 for a 35 hour week and that includes babysitting 2 nights a week as well. Over 35 hours we pay £7.00 an hour but I have only had to do that once.

CACC, one point to think about is if you pay £100 per week you are over the tax/NI limit so legally you will need to pay this.

If I were you I would go for 'benifit in kind' and give her £10 per week top up for a pay as you go mobile, as this isn't taxed in the same way. (Although you SHOULD pay tax on bik).

I think Imananny and others have really said it all, but I had to post, because I am so shocked that some people think that an au pair is like a slave !!!
If the husband is working from home, then that is sole charge. So as others have pointed out, it's 44 hours work. That's more than my nanny does. It does not matter how much experience or qualifications that person has. My nanny has no qualifications (she has a university degree, but nothing related to children) and before working for me she only had experience of working for her sister, but she would not dream of working for £100 per week, and I would not dream of thinking I could pay someone that little. It does not matter if you provide them with a room and board.
As others have pointed out, an au pair is just supposed to help out for a few hours a day - nothing more.

i keep thinking about this. i'm so shocked by this - mostly by the language used, and the way some of you refer to the au pairs... would you really be happy to think of your child working under these conditions when they're of that age? and do you really think that these girls (mostly) who dont seem to want to go out etc agree to work for such a little amount of money because they just want to clean your house and look after your kids, or because the sums you are talking about are relatively large to them and they dont realise that its a pittance here? because, to me, it seems like you are taking advantage of them, and their relative poverty and their need and i think its just awful. if you want a nanny then pay one properly.