Do I just grin and bear this? Is there another way around it? Feel very unhappy.

[ReverseThePolarity]

Wasn't sure where to put this.

We are very lucky to have mil as ds' almost-free childminder.

I've always been very into "attachment" style parenting; you know, slings, co-sleeping, that sort of thing. Call it pfb syndrome if you like but that's how I'd like ds to be raised.

Mil always said she agreed with me over the "Unconditional Parenting" style of child-raising (as per Alfie Kohn) in addition to AP-type concepts and said she wished she'd done it with her own kids.

So I was confused when some of the things she did included:
Ditching the sling and getting an outward facing buggy (i.e. facing away from mil so no interaction)
Giving him juice / tinned baked beans & sausage / "baby" crisps (you know those "Organix" ones) etc to eat
Putting him in disposable nappies
Shouting "NO!" at him very loudly over spurious "misbehaviours" (he is 14 m/o)
Give him sugary tea from her cup
Smoking near him (I always knew she smoked but had assumed she would do it away from him)

And now, she has got him some of those kiddie reins. I am particularly upset because I really can't stand these things. I know opinion on MN is a bit divided over them but I can't bear them. But apparently, "he really creates when he's in the buggy" (that's the outward facing buggy mentioned above) so she wants to let him walk but have him on the reins. She told me today "I know you hate them but I need them and that's that" basically.

BUT having said all the above, she does adore him. She never lets him cry himself to sleep (the most important thing to me) and apart from the odd shouted "NO!" which does my head in, she is very gentle with him. He has one continuous caregiver during the day who really does love him.

Dh of course is no help. "We can't say anything as she is doing it for (almost) free". Besides he thinks I am too soft on ds anyway and it will do him good to have a bit of discipline etc. etc.

Is there anything I can do? Do I have to grin and bear this? I can't afford not to work and in the current economic climate need the job security of permanent office work.

I know you might all accuse me of pfb syndrome and the comments about mil's choices might even get your backs up if that's how you decide to parent. But you must understand, if you've made that decision, it's your decision. This isn't my decision, it's someone taking it out of my hands.

Feel quite upset, possibly irrationally, and please excuse any cruddy spelling that results from this!

oh honey, just read the new comments ,and agree with dh comments thats life is too short BUT not about eating crap food, but life is too short to stay with this kind of man (hug)

some one who verbally abuses you and seems to run you down, if he has such a high powered job, and earns so much money, then he can afford to let you work part time or give up, if that is what you want!!

you sound really unhappy and if you dont have the support of a partner, then sometimes although harder to leave, it will make your life easier/happier in the long run

Rtp. We've not had a foreign holiday ever since dd and ds2. Only ONE uk holiday in 6 years. We eat pulses and eat meat 1-2 x a week. Dp cancelled the gym, we have made no improvements on our house, we rarely go out. No sky as we cannot afford it. This is what dp/we sacrifice so I can stay at home.
And dp earns a very good wage indeed...
it takes 2... You are making all the sacrifices rtp and you will resent it as you are missing the one thing you want above all else.
much love x x x

Wow RTP I had no idea things were bad
Do you have anyone in RL you can talk to - discuss the practicalities and also your feelings? What do you think your DH's reaction would be if you said you wanted to split?

hi Polar,

the smoking is non-negotiable, as everyone else has said.

In all honesty, I think you are making a mistake to continue working full-time when you clearly don't want to. That sounds harsh, but as another poster said, you will NEVER get this time back with your DS - I would tell your husband to stick his expensive food where the sun doesn't shine and that you are going to work part-time, and that's the end of it. He's behaving like a spoilt brat who is putting his own "needs" before those of his son, who would be far better off with a mother who is happy rather than one who is away from him and uptight about it. I work three days a week, and that is enough in my opinion (for me - not casting judgement on anyone else's choices, but personally I couldn't stand to be away from my child for longer than that at this age expect in case of the direst financial necessity, where my child would starve/be homeless without it). He will be in school before you know it, and will be spending the major part of the day away from you then - you can get a full-time job then if it makes your DH happy(and you are still with him!) , it's only three years away. But I don't really need to tell you any of this, as you seem to feel the same way.

Sorry if this sounds a bit strong but you've been such a dedicated mother to your DS, and I think you deserve better from your DH than you are getting.

By the way, why is your MIL so set against a rear facing pram? I disagree with other posters who say children are happier in forward facing ones. My buggy is reversible, but most of the time DS is facing me and I can talk to him, and he can see me. Every mum I know comments on how good it is. He does face forward sometimes, but having the option of both ways is great. What sort of pram do you have (or don't you with all that carrying - much respect by the way - my DS is much heavier than yours and I have a dodgy knee so not an option for long periods).

I assumed you were talking to me - it took a while!

Hmm with extra info you definitely need to sort out things wiith your DH rather than MIL.

Good luck

Why don't you write down all the chores you do, all the chores he does, who works how many hours and make sure it's split evenly in terms of how long each one takes.

Sky TV, posh food, and foreign holidays are luxuries. You might want to approach the spending the same way you approach the chores. I would mark down the things you need (mortgage, gas, electric, basic clothes allowance, normal food (lentils not caviar), etc. Then you should each have an entertainment/saving allowance (and they should be the same!). Then see what luxuries you can afford. If you really want to stay home but you are going to work to pay for sky tv and holidays you don't care about then something is going to have to give. Marriage is about compromise, not a power struggle.

My DH also loves his food, fine wine & sky packages (as well as endless gadgets & holidays). I work 2 days a week.

We are lucky, in that we can afford to do both. If it was a choice, I can tell you I would definitely not be working full-time to subsidise my DH's hobbies & whims.

I'm pretty amazed at your DH's selfish attitude - you clearly want to spend more time with your DS, and he is not supporting you.

I agree this is not really about your MIL (except the smoking - no way would I stand for that!). I wouldn't be happy about the tea or shouting - but if she was only looking after DS 2-3 days a week instead of 5, it wouldn't be as big an issue IYSWIM?

Did you both want a child? Is it possible he resents being a dad? Not making excuses, just wondering if that's why he's so negative.

Re the MIL. You sound like I did about mine. I cringe to think about it now - I was so worried about doing everything 'right'. (I didn't mind reins though - you can't 'lead' a baby on them like a dog - they still go the way they want, the reins just provide a bit of support in the case of a fall, or a bit of security if you feel you need it near a road.)

Your husband sounds like the problem, not your mother in law.

Morning RTP. Have been thinking about you in the night. I have always felt that your DH and your MIL coerced you into going back to work full time when it was really clear you didn't want to. And that they were both quite undermining of you in the early days after having Bertie. Under the circumstances, I think you've done amazingly well to stick to your guns and raise him the way you want - you've always struck me as massively determined on that front.

But I'm not surprised this is really getting to you - partly because I know that you don't really want to work at all and partly because I think it must feel like you're being so overlooked in your views. I've always felt that there were (in the words of Princess Di) three people in your relationship!

How do you think your DH would react if you said you only wanted to work three days a week? What would happen if you went ahead and did it?

Re the day to day issues with your MIL - I agree with everyone else really. I think you hould put your foot down on some things (like the smoking) but some you just have to accept that if someone else is looking after your child, they're not going to do things the way you do. My mum looks after my DS one day a week and is always giving him biscuits. Drives me mad but I've overlooked it (even though I've told her I don't want him to have sugar) because they adore one another. Trying to find areas of compromise and those things you could let go without too much agonising might help you. In the end though I do think this is symptomatic of a much bigger issue and I'm not sure you will ever sort out the small issues to your satisfaction if that big one isn't dealt with.

I hope that's helpful and not really bleak

Why not consider 4 days to start with - it's not such a big cut that you couldn't find ways to fund it. I find having three days a week with DS keeps me sane.

Presumably your DH sees his mum as "mum" and therefore doesn;t see the problem for your DS, he thinks thats the easy the way to get what he wants, luxuries and DS looked after by someone close to him. What he isn't taking into account is how you feel about it and how his mum is not your DS's mum, you are and you want to see more of him.

The problem is that what is a luxury for one person is an essential for another.

This is a really hard issue to tackle, and I wonder if it was something that you talked about/thought about before you had your baby? And that's not meant as a criticism at all - I doubt any of us realised what life was going to be like and how our priorities would shift once the baby came along.

Unfortunately things often change for the woman and much less for the man - especially if you're taking on most of the household chores, his life hasn't changed whereas yours has. And your priorities sound as if they have changed.

TBH, I feel some sympathy for your DH - I wouldn't want to give up my nice food/wine or holidays either! But then that was a choice we made - and it was always non-negotiable that I was going to go back to work full time.

The long and short of it is that there is no perfect solution and compromises have to be made by us all, regardless of the choices that we make.

I think that you and your dh need to have a proper conversation about your lives - his as well as yours - and agree what you both want out of life. Be honest if things have changed with you, and also take into account what he wants.

Now. This will seem harsh, I'm afraid, but it does sound like you're also cutting out your dh from your life - you want everything to revolve around your child and you and sound as if you expect him to deliver this for you. Apologies, but I did think that some of your post was a bit childish - you want him and your MIL to do everything your way.

I know that my dh felt the responsibility of being the sole earner very, very hard - and would have been very unhappy if I suddenly said I didn't want to work any more.

Please talk to your dh about this, but seriously and openly.

And this is so clearly not about your childcare!

Sorry for a long post and I do mean this constructively rather than criticising. I well remember the early days and how much of an upheaval it was in our marriage. But 18 years later we're still here ...

RTP - I know that this thread has got onto the f/t p/t sah side of things - but I wanted to let you know of my experience of reins, hopefully to set your mind at rest a bit in case things stay as they are for a while.

Ds has always had an outward facing pc - I was very concious over the need for him to know that I was there, so early days I would sing and talk to him all the time - and, lying flat, he could see me a little anyway. I found I was unable to carry him for long distances from about 3mo as he was heavy and we had to walk the dog everyday, whatever the weather. From as early as 9 mo he would watch, fascinated, as the dog ran after her frisbee - to a significant distance away, then track her back to us. He loved it.

He started walking on his own at 14mo. Before this time, when he was cruising at home, when we went out for a walk with the buggy he would start 'creating' and I would get him out and let him hold onto the back of the buggy and effectively let him push it along (controlling the pace carefully - dh was never any good at this and ds got dragged along a few times (didn't seem to worry him!)) so when he was walking he wasn't content to sit in the buggy all of the time - he wanted to be out and walking. I found reins at this age really useful as it helped him walk along without falling over too much. He didn't want to hold my hand - its not really comfortable having one arm streched above your head for a long time - and I didn't find it comfortable holding his hand all of the time, so this was the best option for both of us. He also had the freedom to crouch down suddenly and look at insects he saw on the ground, or play in the sand etc.

I know that you don't like reins, but, if used sensitively to help walking rather than restrict loction, they can be helpful.

I would not, however, be happy with the smoking situation. This is bad for his health. This is the issue that it is worth making a stand about as this has the potential to damage his health in the longer term. I know that there are lots of people that have grown up in smoking households, but there are also people living to 90 who have smoked 20 a day - it doesn't mean that smoking is not harmful.

I would agree with a lot of posters that as long as you are working, noone (paid or unpaid) will ever look after your child they way you would want them to.

It's just not possible.

The only solution to this is for you to give up work, which you have acknowledged you want to do.

Like Imworthit it was non-negotiable with my DH about me going back to work full-time, I don't actually think it's fair to expect him to "understand" that.

I know a lot of women on here do have partners who are happy for them to be at home with the kids, but that doesn't mean you are entitled to do so.

Am a little for you because it does seem "no win" for you, if you leave DH you will still have to work, and you will be worse off.

Hope you find a way to work this out with DH so that you don't feel so "replaced" by MIL.

Yep.

Everything that BecauseImworthit says.

I suspect that your DH is making sarcy comments and being a bit 'bitchy' because he can't really emotionally adjust to the change and him not being centre of your universe and now relegated to 'provider'. Sounds like he wants to pretend that everything is 'as was'. Wrong, of course, but you need to drag his head out of the sand before it hurts your marriage even more. It's not your fault that he's like this, but you need to take action if you want to address it. And it is worth addressing because the alternatives are not nice.

I was thinking a lot about this last night, and what do you know so was everyone else !

I was going to put the same suggestion forward as Kew. I work 4 days a week and I love my one special day with DS where we do what we want on our own. It means I can focus totally on DS (and mumsnet ) without any of the normal compromises that come with being a family.

Plus perhaps you could condense your hours, which although is hard on the 4 days means you would still get that special time without a reduction in salary.

Must go have to get to work !

It does sound as if the problem is dh, rather than MIL alone. And that he is bullying you.

If you are thinking of leaving him, then you really need to think about childcare/work. Because dh will still want his mum to look after ds. How are you going to handle that one?

Good point, Edam.

Also, if you give up work and then get divorced, how will you support yourself and your son? Dh will only have to give you 20% of his income. Can you live on that and pay childcare so you can go to work so you can put food on the table and pay rent?

Thin long term when you decide whether to quit working and whether to stay with your DH.

What about using a nursery part time when your son turns say 2. It is only ten months away and may be an excuse to wean him away from full care under MIL. Start the conversation with DH now about when it is appropriate for his development to start socialising with other children his age. (You can bet the nursery won't serve tea or smoke around him). Maybe start with two half days or one full day per week. And you can use your tax credits/vouchers there so they don't go to waste.

Then, after he's been in nursery for a while apply for flexible working to work 4 10 hour days M-TH and have Fridays off. (Make sure nursery is M-TH). So when you take that day off you get another day with DS, MIL only has him two days, and you are still bringing home a full time paycheck.

ReverseThePolarity - if I were you, I would tell your DH that you want to change your childcare and either have a nanny, use a CM or send your DC to nursery because you think that his mother is getting in the way of your family. Tell him that you think your relationship as a couple is suffering hugely because of the constant presence of your MIL in all your lives.

Have just read all the thread, and as others said it's not the MIL is the issue.

One thing that struck me is that the OP said in the first paragraph that DH thinks ds could do with a bit of discipline, and that the OP is too soft on him. Could it be that the DH feels excluded and un-necessary now in this cosy relationship between mother and baby?
Maybe for him to spend more time alone with his son would help all relationships, and he has a right to have his say in how his son is being reared also.

And...

You and DH should split the childcare chores. For example, he takes DS to his mum/nursery in the morning (allowing you to leave early so you can put in that 10 hour day). You pick him up and get him ready for bath/bed whilst DH prepares your dinner and cleans the kitchen.

You and DH sit down to eat together (which is a good time for the two of you to discuss DS' developmental needds) while DS sleeps.

NEVER EVER accept this crap about his job being more important because he makes more money. My DH makes more money than I do, but I wouldn't dream of allowing my career to take a back seat to his. They are equal, and this is a non-negotiable truth.

Agree with potoftea.

Your version of AP sounds v. mother centred imo

I don't understand what you dislike about the reins. THere are a basic, practical, safety aid, which can be quite useful in certain places- I wish more parents would use them- often as a driver you have to really watch out for parents who justdo not make sure that they are keeping their children safe.Likewise, if a child really needs a pushchair, then I wouldn't get hung up with the outward/inward facing debate. Older chioldren llike to see faces apart from yours sometimes, sights around them. Also in crowded shopping centres someparents let toddlers run wild.

Aren't babies over 7 or so months really too heavy for a sling? My back couldnot have managed afterabout4 months .