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Original poster

Can I give my nearly naked nanny notice...advice?

149 replies

helpwithnanny · 21/05/2008 18:01

As some of you will know from my previous thread I have been having 'issues' about my live in nanny wandering about half starkers all the time with norks on full display!! She has had a verbal and written warning but hasn't managed to put them away pull up her socks and Im feeling the need to quit and think alternatives. I have been chatting to a lovely lady locally who is a childminder. She is fab. Not only could she have them both for exactly the right hours but she will cost us WAY less than the current nanny and of course offer the benefit of not having a live in hanging about!
What Im asking I guess if what do you think is the best way to break the news to the ex nanny?
I could if I was that way inclined issue another written warning for the norks hanging out at which point I could sack her! (Im assuming anyway as contract states 1 verbal, 2 written). Im tempted as she has been a bit of a moo. But at the same time she is generally a nice girl and this option leaves her homeless (although her parents and boyfriend are both living locally) and I don't want to ruin the poor girls career by sacking her blah blah
At the same time if I give her notice Im stuck with her norks in my face for another month!
I guess I could pay her off but thats a hell of a lot of money!
Cant think of a better way of doing it, being legal and not costing me a fortune.

HELP!

K.

OP posts:
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NotABanana · 23/05/2008 19:19

She stole from you and graffittied your wall.

Would you tolerate anyone else doing that?

Moomin · 23/05/2008 19:27

I would agree with you on most points but NOT the way she left - the vandalism- and the items she stole!!

You are clearly very nice and it's great you have found such fabulous alternative childcare .... BUT if she was my next Nanny and I didn't know how she could be if things went wrong because her previous employers hadn't made it clear, I would be furious. How would you feel if you found out your lovely new childminder had keyed a mindee's parent's car because they'd raised an issue with her? If she can't take criticism or rejection without becoming destructive or abusive then she needs not to work with families in a sensitive job anymore.

I'm a teacher and if I behaved like this, imagine the reaction!

ssd · 23/05/2008 19:31

I'd need to sack her because no matter what, her tits are bound to be better than mine

NotABanana · 23/05/2008 19:54

I hope the next person she rips off/tries to seduce doesn't find out she used to work to you.

Heated · 23/05/2008 20:06

I would feel very sorry for the family who invited her into their home next. Childcare is one of those professions which relies on openness and trust.

At least report her vandalism and theft to the agency.

I would personally also report her criminal behaviour to the police. I am v tolerant of teenagers' moods (teacher!) but the thieving and damage to your home is a big no no.

But so glad to hear she's gone.

QuintessentialShadows · 23/05/2008 21:06

As an employer you have a duty of care to her next employers, she should be prevented from workign with children again. How can you know she wont start taking it out on the kids next time she comes up against somebody she disagrees with?

fridayschild · 23/05/2008 23:07

I don't think OP owes a duty of care unless she gives a reference. So if the employment isn't mentioned on Nanny Norks' cv, there is no breach of the Sisterhood of Nannyemployers Sacred Trust. Or indeed any legal obligation.

But I do think she should be honest if someone phones asking for a reference (not least in case that someone is me!). Honest means good points as well as bad...

MarmadukeScarlet · 23/05/2008 23:11

I actually think you cannot give a bad reference legally, although I wait to be corrected.

I think the worst you can do is refuse or confirm that the person worked within stated days and offer no comment on their abilities.

We run a business and this is what my DH told me the other day re an ex employee who was poison and disturbed the whole karma (LOL at me the old hippy) of our happy workplace.

It may be different for employees in the home.

pinkbubble · 23/05/2008 23:26

Marmaduke, I always thought that! (about a bad ref)

In my thoughts, you either gave a good reference or you refused - then people could make up their own opinions.

In my case, I was desp wanting to leave a family that I was really unhappy with (they were just plain right awful) I told them that I wanted to leave, they told me they were in no hurry as they were happy with my work etc. To cut a long story short, I couldn't work out why I wasn't getting offered any jobs. I got a friend to ring up and ask for a verbal reference for a nanny job. Well it broke my heart, I could not believe how horrid they were being about me, more or less untrue. I left PDQ! within a week of me contacting old employers nd asking if they would give me refs, honest with new employer I soon got a job.

fridayschild · 23/05/2008 23:27

If you give an inaccurate reference you are liable to be sued. It can be a bad reference as long as it is true. You do not have to give a reference at all, normally. This is far worse than a bland reference, IMO.

onepieceoflollipop · 23/05/2008 23:28

Perhaps in this situation the op could decline to give a reference (if she was ever called to do so of course) but offer to send a little picture of the nanny's interior decor skills.

NotABanana · 24/05/2008 09:39

This person stole from you, and damaged your home, and you are etting them get away with it.

Good lesson to teach your children.

amidaiwish · 24/05/2008 09:51

i am quite shocked that you are prepared to "chalk this up to experience"

she walked around in a thong
she stole from you
she graffitied your wall
she swore on the phone in front of your children
she let them watch TV all day

i can't imagine much worse actually
and you are going to let her get away with it, let her do this to another family, to look after more children. you really really can't.

definitely call her parents
and i would also be telling the police. just to have it on record.

amidaiwish · 24/05/2008 09:52

and i haven't even read the previous thread.
i'm sure there's plenty more to add.

Original poster
helpwithnanny · 24/05/2008 12:21

at some of the responses!

I have told the agency about her departing behaviour and I have rung the other 2 agencies that she was registered with before she came to me to warn them.

Im sure I won't be featuring on her reference list! If I was asked I would confirm the dates that she worked for us and that she walked out without giving notice. Im not allowed to give her a bad reference.

I don't think I owe anything to anyone personally

amidaiwish- She could have done MUCH MUCH worse!
notabanana- "good lesson to teach the kids " my children are young and blissfully unaware of all that has been going on thankfully!

She wasn't dangerous or evil. Just young, naive and stupid. She hardly emptied the family jewels, she took the stuff from her room and the camera that she used to use to take pics of the kids (yes they were all ours) but not stuff that is valuable and can't be replaced from her wages. The graffiti was stupid, but she must have been very very angry and sometimes when you are young you aren't sure how to express that anger! She could have smashed up the whole house, or done something awful to the kids..but she didn't she wrote fu*k you muppet on the wall! That makes her pathectic not dangerous in my books!

Hark at me sticking up for NannyNorks!!!(I love that name)
It was a bad experience for everyone and Im glad we have all escaped almost unscathed and without it costing me a fortune!

OP posts:
Moomin · 24/05/2008 12:21

In the reference you'd be fine as long as you stuck to facts rather than opinions, e.g. "(Nanny) was given a verbal warning for walking around the family home with no bra on" rather than "(Nanny) behaved inappropriately", IYSWIM. Anyone reading that would automatically see her actions as inappropriate anyway wouldnt they? And as afra as the stolen items go, it would read "A number of items, namely a camera, a blah and a blah, went missing when (Nanny) was living with us" rather than "(Nanny) stole from us".

Moomin · 24/05/2008 12:32

X posts with your last comment, helpwithnanny.

Glad you have reported her to the agencies. And you obviously want to draw a line under this and you are happy to be shot of her, understandably.

I don;t mean to sound overly critical either, but I do feel you're being very indulgant with her behaviour. Yes, we've been prats when we were younger and have behaved badly - God did I ever ! -but I wasn't in the employ of anyone at the time, certainly not in the type of job where I was responsible for the care of children, being paid as a professional.

Here's a question for you - how does anyone ever learn about right and wrong behaviour if all they are required to do when caught is compensate monetarily for it? IS there no opportunity to have to face up to your wrong-doings by returning items stolen and apologising; and if they do not have the decency to do these things then they must face consequences. I just can't get my head around the idea of taking the cost of the stolen goods out of her wages and that being it. If a kid in my class stole another pupil's phone and all we did was ask for the money back, would we be serving those pupils (both of them) correctly?

Sorry. I know I'm being a bit 'dog with a bone' about this, but it all seems so very nice and woolly and dare I say it liberal. Anyway.... I'll shut up now!

poppy34 · 24/05/2008 12:33

helpwithnanny -glad its all sorted out even if somewhat dramatic at the end. Sounds like your CM will be just what you need

Think you are being incredibly fair with her -yes she could have done much worse but its not exactly been the ideal experience for you or your family judging from your posts.

I take your point about not owing anything to anyone personally but you do sound eminently fair and reasonable (Far more than I would be in circs). Is it really fair to next person who may want to employ her that this kind of behaviour goes unreported in any way to them?
I know its a minefield what you can say on references but something along the lines moomin suggests (ie sticking to facts not judgement) does seem fair. Obviously its up to the new employers to make enquiries etc.

colette · 24/05/2008 12:41

It does make you wonder how valid her previous references were. I can't believe she had been fine with her former employers.

NotABanana · 24/05/2008 14:24

No need for the face. I have no idea how old your children are and I feel she has behaved appallingly and you have let her get away with it pretty much, but that is down to you.

Earlybird · 24/05/2008 14:33

Did the agencies you spoke with offer any advice about how to deal with the situation, given the nanny's exit 'performance'? Would be curious to know if they suggested police, deducting damage from wages, lock changes, etc. Perhaps you were calling to simply to inform them, rather than seeking advice...

Btw - perhaps I missed this, how old was she? How long had she been nannying, and did she have qualifications? Had she done live-in jobs previously?

imananny · 24/05/2008 15:23

OMG - just read the last few pages!!

Thank god she has gone, but i cant beleive she wrote that on your bedroom wall - or that she stole from you!!

I really think you should consider going to the police - yes it will be on her crb, but it serves her right!!

Thank god you have got childcare sorted and sure your dc will be much happier with their new cm

amidaiwish · 24/05/2008 15:29

well you know if all you are going to do is "dock" what she "stole" from her wages and pay her the rest, well, maybe you got the nanny you deserved.

sorry, i know that that is really harsh but you are totally letting her get away with totally outrageous behaviour. how bad would it have got before you DID anything?

i can't imagine leaving my children in the care of someone so awful. of having someone in the house who had so little respect for me or my family.

paros · 24/05/2008 15:40

Yes but what can she do . (I am convinced this is a wind up I mean who in their right mind puts up with a nanny walking around with her tits out )This girl if she exists will not put this job down as a reference .

kiskideesameanoldmother · 24/05/2008 17:42

if you are going to take the expense she caused out of her wage, she may go to the police claiming that you ahve failed to pay her.

your best line of defense is to make a complaint first for criminal damage and theft then you have something already as a comeback if she does turn up with the police.