The ex allowed stayover without telling me

[ece123]

DD (7) was supposed to stay at her father tonight. Her father took DD and her friend out and when he was dropping off her friend, the famiky invited DD for a stayover. And the ex couldn’t say “no”.

I am sensetive about sleep overs and ex partner is aware of this. When same girl had a stayover party I did not allow DD to stay and collected DD at 10pm. When she was invited again by the same family we discussed with my ex and I only agreed if DD had a sim card and was able to reach us whenever she wanted. So we bought her a smart watch at that time and agreed for that stayover.

Tonight was not discussed in advance and it is out of blue and DD does not have her smart watch with her either so she is unable to reach if she want to.

Sleepovers were very rarely allowed in my family and only when we were at an older age. My sister is psychologist and she is also againts sleepovers due to personal and occupational reasons. I am not comfortable about it especially with families we don’t really know.

I am really upset that the ex allowed this without asking me. He was not even going to inform me if I did’t want to call and talk to DD.

I insisted to agree on having an agreement on any future stay overs and he is not even properly agreeing on this (sent a thumbs up emoji). I told him this is very very important to me and I need a clear statement feom him not an emoji. I am thinking about getting a legal advice on this but I wanted to hear what other mums are thinking. He is saying that when DD is “staying” with him I do not have a say on what they can do and they cannot do.

We do not know the family well. They came to DD’s school last year and the girls are good friends but that is about it. Ex husband told me to go and get her if I want to. I am not going to do that as it will be very awkard but certainly I am uncomfortable.

Separated parents should agree on if kids are staying with other people. No? I would have never allowed DD without asking him even with my friends who I know for ages.

She seems it. It’s best for rents to try to sit down and talk things out after all. Hopefully it goes well for them.

Wtf that says I want to be in control not no sleep overs you don't need to plan your ex's time.

And the city where you live is relevant too. If we were living in a smaller city where there is strong community feel, people know each other and their friend circle for a long time, I might have been less worried. But in London where school friends change every year and people frequently move, it is harder to feel that sense of community and security.

Have you got some version of the OP’s posts that massively differs from mine? Because she sounds very much like ‘discussion’ means ‘issuing instructions’ and, if her ex is not just going to do what he’s told, she’ll go around him and make sure that what she wants is what happens.

Yes, the OP is presenting herself as reasonable and definitely thinks it’s her ex who is the one causing problems by making his own decisions, but controlling people do think they are reasonable. People aren’t monsters for the most part. Controlling people often aren’t explicitly intending to be controlling, but they’re so set on things being the way they should be that their behaviour becomes controlling.

No I don’t, why would I have a different version? Odd.

Likely we’re just very different people, that have different life experiences and view things differently. No two people are going to view things 100% the same and that’s okay! Because I should imagine you’re looking for my agreement and opinion about as much as I’m looking for yours lol.

Given I have both, no it's totally irrelevant IME.

Plus, following on from a post by the op, we live in Greater London

OP, don’t listen to anyone who tells you that you’re being over the top. You are entitled to your boundaries. I was a child SA victim by a trusted family friend. I know I have hang ups, and didn’t allow my daughter to have sleepovers apart from her at her best friend’s, and even then not at the age of seven. We did host sleepovers at our house with lots of friends (often 8 at a time 🤦🏻‍♀️) so she didn’t feel like she was missing out.

Talk to your ex and make it clear that it’s a red line for you. Come up with a get out for if he’s ever in that position again, so he feels prepared. He can say that he has plans, or even say honestly that he can’t say yes without checking with Mum, and then you can say no.

OP, don’t listen to anyone who tells you that you’re being over the top. You are entitled to your boundaries

OP can feel whatever way she wants to feel. But she has no way to enforce what her ex does on his time any more than he has any way to enforce what she does on her time. Her only leverage would be to end the relationship, and I believe that ship already sailed.

This isn't neglect or abuse. It's a very normal, everyday thing for most families.

Respectfully disagree. It might be ‘perfectly normal’ for naive people who underestimate the risks. Anybody who hadn’t been through it would like to imagine it’s very rare. Those who aren’t as fortunate are fully aware that it happens a lot more frequently than people realise. Estimates are between 5-10% of children. My children’s dad was always respectful of my feelings on the matter. If I didn’t trust him to keep our children safe I’d have withheld contact.

On a related note, I spent my teenage years in care. I wasn’t allowed to attend sleepovers as a condition of my care order. Social services obviously didn’t think it was over the top either.

What? Your point makes no sense. Presumably OP’s sister has had many patients (probably mostly adults) talk to her about sexual abuse or weird or uncomfortable sexual experiences that happened to them at sleepovers and so in her personal opinion, coloured by her professional experience, sending young kids on sleepovers is a bad idea. She doesn’t need to be a forensic psychologist assessing this particular family to believe that, in general, the risks of sleepovers outweigh the benefits.
Also, abuse or just bad experiences can happen at sleepovers in houses with parents who have no idea that an older sibling/other children invited are targeting or pressuring a child at a sleepover.

I am so sorry for what you lived through. And thanks for supporting. @Menomeno

I sometimes do stayovers with my friends and our children so DD is not completely lacking the experience.

You must know them a bit, you let her stay until 10pm the last time the friend had a sleepover.

I think you are being absolutist saying you don’t know this family at all and don’t know anything about them. Because that’s not true, is it? Your daughter has had four play dates and one sleepover already, and you’ve been invited in for coffee/tea twice. So they clearly provide a warm welcome to your daughter, like having her, and have extended the welcome to you too. And you’ve been happy enough for her to go to play. If you are regretting letting her stay over before, that’s fine: you’re entitled to change your mind and decide sleepovers are not for now. But it’s not fair to project that regret onto your ex, or to minimise the hand of friendship the family has extended.

Out of curiosity, and apologies if I’ve missed this, but have you returned the invite and had the child back to your house, and also what’s your view on hosting a sleepover if your DD asked for one, eg for her 8th birthday?

Most abuse is conducted by family members and family friends. The notion that you think that be knowing them well means your child is not at risk is naive. Do you think youd pick up on signs? Don't be ridiculous.
No court is going to facilitate your controlling behaviour. His time = his rules.

Mumsnet is crazy. On one hand people will say it’s irresponsible for a mum to allow her boyfriend to stay over, even when they’ve been dating for years, in case he’s a paedophile. On the other hand it’s perfectly fine to leave your child overnight with a mum you’ve had a couple of coffees with and never even met her husband. Maybe she’s even got a new boyfriend who will be in the house. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yep yep yep

The vast majority of other parents will not be abusers though. Risk is something we need to get into proportion and take our own decisions about. It's very hard. Car journeys, sports, trampolining - all carry the risk of injury/disablement/death. But also bring rewards and enjoyable experiences for children. How do you decide which risks to take? I'm not sure myself, though my dc have had a fair number of sleepovers.

Not everyone. If you've been dating years and the kids know the bf, and it's serious etc then I don't see any harm in him staying over. Likewise, if I know the people who my daughter would be sleeping over at, I wouldn't have a problem either. She's been having sleepovers since she was around 6/7 and she's 17 now. Nothing happened to her.

DD already asking about this but I am not planning to invite any parents whom I am not comfortable with my daughter staying over with.

On the other hand, I and DD are both invited for a stayover at my friend’s house. Every year my friend and her child comes spend few days with us. And another friend who is also anxious like me asked if her daughter can have a sleepover at our place. I wouldn’t have invited if she didn’t ask but I am OK to host her since mum asked herself.

So you're not happy with DD sleeping over there because several playdates, a coffee, dinner and a sleepover mean you don't know them and they're strangers. Yet you're not happy to invite them into your house because they're strangers.

But lucky DD gets to have a sleepover with YOUR friend and their child.

Your posts when she's a teen are going to be interesting.

So she has stayed there before on 'your time ' and that was ok as had her watch

B it it's not ok on ex 'time ' as no watch

I assume dd wanted to stay there

Pot kettle black springs to mind

It's good for children to have some independence and dd obv felt happy enough to stay without a means of communication

Don't understand these people saying you're being over the top. No way would I be happy with my seven year old girl sleeping over at a strangers house. He might as well pick someone off the bus and send her to their house. This is definitely something that both parents have to agree to.

The mum aka op did let her dd stay there Before though

That's not legally the case, however strongly you feel it ought to be. OP has no control over decisions her dd's father makes on his contact time. You're not doing OP any favours by telling her she can veto something when she absolutely can't.

Your ex is her father - he has the same rights to allow her to go to places as you do