30 Free Hours but still being asked to pay, is that right?

[EsouthA]

Hi,

I wondered if anyone could help me with the below.

My daughter will start her 30 free hours in September which we have decided to stretch the whole year so works out at 21.9 hours per week.

When applying to her nursery (Busy Bees) we added on one extra morning to make it 20 hours per week. So this we were expecting to be fully covered by the 30 free hours allowance (21.9 hours) however they have come back with this fee sheet which basically broken down means we have to pay a certain amount towards funded hours and also we have to pay for non funded hours which really we shouldn’t have but apparently they are saying we do.
has anyone else experienced this?

With baby no.2 due in October we were hoping in the 30 free hours covering the childcare costs but now we’re looking to reduce my daughters hours so not to pay too much which we just don’t have.

Any advice/experience much appreciated.

Thanks in advance x

My 30 free hours cover about a day and a half.

I can't read your attachment, but many providers need to do this as the amount paid by government doesn't cover the providers' costs.

The 30 hours are "funded" not "free".

Some providers only allow you to have the funded time between certain hours, or a max of a certain number of hours a day, or charge extra for 'consumables' like food, craft supplies or activities to make up the shortfall.

You will probably find that termtime only school nurseries or community preschools are able to offer the hours totally free or with a small cost for lunch.

My understanding when I looked at some nurseries was that a lot charge for food etc over the 30 hours so there is still a charge. In the end we went for a preschool setting and pay nothing for my son 3 days a week but doesn't cover holidays. Maybe an option whilst on maternity leave when you can cover the holidays though I know not ideal.

Every nursery does this differently. We pay £160 a month for DD to go three days across a 48-week model (shut two weeks for Xmas and you take them out for two weeks of your choice at some point during the year), which by reading things on here sounds like we are very lucky. You do generally have to pay some wraparound costs for earlier starts/finishes and for food etc., but private nurseries all set these differently.

I think this is standard I'm afraid. The government funding isn't sufficient to cover the nursery's actual costs, so parents have to pay a supplement for each funded hour - at our nursery it's £1.50/hr plus an extra £3 for an early (pre-8am) drop-off. So our daughter's nursery bill for two days per week is still around £150 a month, and that's after the 20% discount through Tax Free Childcare

Also worth remembering that it's 30 hours for term-time only. If your nursery is open year-round, it's stretched out to something like 22.5 hours a week.

The idea that children get 30 hours free childcare is absolutely guff, as you've just discovered!

The funding from the government doesn’t cover their costs.
I pay £8.50 a day for food but no extra hour charge - covers 7.45 - 6pm. My friends nursery charged an extra £20 per day.
As a private nursery they can charge what they want and you can choose to go elsewhere.
it looks like they dictate how you can use them so don’t allow 10 hours for a full day instead 7.35 - I guess this is to make it financially profitable for them. If you are going on maternity leave you might be better looking at a pre school depending on the age of your child - some take from 2 but not as gentle (IMO) as a nursery. Also worth considering is it worth change when there will be a big change at home.
so in answer they can charge how they want (Blake how the government funds them and don’t get me started on increasing ratio to bring down costs!! Not safe or good for the staff!)
mask for a meeting with the manager to fully understand - but it won’t reduce the cost.

I think this is a case of 30 hours not really being 30 hours.
What it is is 10x3 hour sessions (or 10 x 2.19 hour sessions in your case).
so when you pay for a morning which is 5 hours, you get 2.19 hours free and have to pay for the remainder. You can't "borrow " from another session.

I think this is standard with day care nurseries (although some will hide it better by claiming it is free but making you pay extra for meals and incidentals). You normally only get it free if you go to a nursery that offers 3 or 6 hour sessions during term time only (and even then they often find a way to charge a top up).

Basically the amount the government thinks a nursery needs to run is too low. They have to find the shortfall somewhere.

In your circumstance you might be better moving her to a school nursery in September as presumably you'll be on maternity leave and won't need the longer hours?

When i childminded i just charged extra hours . You might find pre school or childminders are better pay wise

This happened to me when mine went to nursery, they tried to say that the money that the government pays them isn't enough and then charged us for meals too. It's absolutely ridiculous!

Many nurseries cannot afford to remain open at the funding level provided by Government, especially after the local authority have skimmed off some.
Looks like the nursery runs sessions, where part of the session uses funded hours and part is paid. They also are adding a charge for 'essentials' though not sure what is meant by that, maybe it is things like paper, paint, but it might include snacks, lunch (if doing full day). The nursery should be able to provide you with details of what 'essentials' are.

Have a look at other providers in your area. If you do not need 8am-6pm Monday-Friday childcare, then look for a provider who offers shorter sessions. A local pre-school group may offer funded sessions but may only be mornings.

Are you just doing mornings? Their sessions are 8am-1pm, not just the funded hours. So each day you use there is a portion funded and a portion unfunded.

I used to use busys a few years back and they had a maximum number of funded sessions you could use per week. I worked out the most effective way to use it was three days a week at the time. I went from three days at work to four and the additional cost was significant but unavoidable

Stretching the hours throughout the year doesn’t equate to 21.9hrs a week does it

also many nurseries make you pay an hour for lunch as lunch isnt funded

The hourly rate The government gives the nursery setting dosent cover the cost of looking after a child. A private business shouldn't have to cover the gap. Nurserys campaigned for an increase, other childcare settings have closed.
Prices increased increased when i paid Nursery fees to part subsidise the hours.
Some Nursery won't even offer them.

I don’t know anyone who has it completely “free” unless their child does sessions at a school nursery i.e. fewer than 6 hours per day, term time only, which is obviously useless for people who work. And they still had to pay separately for dinners or provide a packed lunch.

Totally normal, and any anger at this should be directed at the government for selling parents a load of nonsense about 30 free hours rather than nurseries who would go bust if they actually did offer these for free.

Most nurseries would have to shut if they couldn't charge for food etc. I think only school based nurseries are genuinely free but often very limited hours do no good if you are working.

Lots of nurseries do this to cover costs as the govt funding for the “free” hours isn’t really adequate. Presumably it depends on the area people are in and the individual nursery.

We are very lucky and only pay for hot lunches, so we do get the true funded hours. We could opt for packed lunches and it would be completely free. We spread the hours across 48 weeks and use 3x 6.5hr sessions per week. It is a good nursery too, small local chain.

My son does 30 hours a week but stretched over the year its 22 hours. I then pY the extra hours which is just over 200 a month

Many of them do it, solve of them by having convoluted timings and since by breaking the rules (they are not allowed to charge a top up hourly rate and extras must be optional).

My childminder just charges for meals, or your pay no extra and bring a packed lunch etc.

My GD goes Monday to fri 9 to 3pm term time all fully funded ....any wrap around is £4 per hour .... you provide the packed lunch

Yeah this is standard. My dd has 15 hrs funded, she does 6 hrs a week and I pay £75 a month

I'm in Scotland and my DD goes to a council run nursery 50 weeks per year and she is fully funded, i haven't paid a penny since she turned 3. She does 8-5:30 Monday & Tuesday and 8-12 on a Wednesday. Hot meal included on a long day.
We did use to live in England so I'm glad we've moved back here!