30 Free Hours but still being asked to pay, is that right?

[EsouthA]

Hi,

I wondered if anyone could help me with the below.

My daughter will start her 30 free hours in September which we have decided to stretch the whole year so works out at 21.9 hours per week.

When applying to her nursery (Busy Bees) we added on one extra morning to make it 20 hours per week. So this we were expecting to be fully covered by the 30 free hours allowance (21.9 hours) however they have come back with this fee sheet which basically broken down means we have to pay a certain amount towards funded hours and also we have to pay for non funded hours which really we shouldn’t have but apparently they are saying we do.
has anyone else experienced this?

With baby no.2 due in October we were hoping in the 30 free hours covering the childcare costs but now we’re looking to reduce my daughters hours so not to pay too much which we just don’t have.

Any advice/experience much appreciated.

Thanks in advance x

Many nurseries in my area ( NW ).are council but not attached to a school....so the mon to fri 9 to 3pm is free then any wrap around ( 8am to 9am and to 3pm to 4pm, 5pm or 6pm) is £4 an hour....completely normal round here.... but yes, parents have to provide packed lunches ..... these are all excellent nurseries with trained early years teachers from 3 years.

Yeah - atm I pay 1.7k a month, when DD turns 3 and gets the funded hours it drops down to just shy of 1k. So the whole 30 hours free is a pack of lies :)

People need to be angry with the government, not individual providers. They go around boasting about creating the 30 hours free childcare, then pay providers (depending on area) £3.80 an hour.

Yeah it’s normal. My daughter goes less than 30 hours but we still have to pay coz only 9-3 is free. Others do it differently and the free bit is pro-rataed so if you go three days you get 3/5 of the funded hours. All depends. It isn’t free.

I’d email back and say that you only require the fully funded hours please.

The way they're charging you isn't uncommon, it's just complicated. It's never just a straight application of 30 hours a week sadly as pp have said, the hourly rate they get from the government is nowhere near what they charge parents.

Essentially, as you're doing mornings and added on another, of the 4 x 5 hour sessions per week, you are only benefitting from 3.65 hours free per morning and they are charging you for the 1.35 hours that are left.

They are then charging you £2.50 per hour (2.5x3.65) on top of your free hours for extras and essentials whatever they are, and £6.90 for the non free hours (6.9x1.35) which makes 18.45 per day. So nearly £20 a day.

Looks like the afternoon session for the same length of time would save you a few bob if that's of any use.

By law the nursery should provided 30 hrs per week funded but can charge for extras - food drink etc. if they have agreed for you to do that over the holidays too it works out around 22 hours so you should be able to take your child for approx 22 hours. However those hours may be set with chargeable hours making up the rest of the day. The best way would be to do 2 full days. (20 hours)

As others have said the rate settings recieve for the funded hours doesnt match their running costs. I know our LA pay £4.61 an hour. Daily rate here is around £52

Extra charges are supposed to be voluntary. They can also not force you to use additional hours....but they can set sessions meaning you either pay for non session hours like lunch times or take your child home for lunch.
Childminders tend to offer the hours you need rather than force additional hours they do exactly the same curriculum wise as all other registered settings. It can also mean when your eldest starts school baby is at the same childminder so one drop off and collection point.

Sadly, the rate paid to providers doesn't cover their costs. I'm a childminder and get paid £2.10 less than my hourly rate. Whilst I don't have the overheads large settings do, I'm limited the amount of children I can care for. If parents didn't pay a voluntary contribution then I would probably have to close and look for alternative work

Speak to the nursery and get them to explain the charges to you. If your stretching, that may be where part of the problem is depending on the amount of weeks

It's rubbish some places do this. Technically they can't ask for extra money per hour of the funded hours. Those skills be free. But it doesng mean they can't say certain hours aren't funded and charge loads for those hours. I used a nursery who worked out how many hours I need a year and then deducted the number of annual funded hours and charged me the different. They didn't take the piss like some places. Childminders generally are better.. I used to be one so I knew a lot. But yeah some nurseries are far better than others

A nursery who provides those hours at the funded rate would rapidly go bust....ours just took the value of the funding off the bill and we paid the rest. Blame the govt.

As many others have said, the funding simply doesn't cover the costs so private nurseries have to find a way of making up the shortfall. School nurseries are the best option if you do not want to pay any extras.

In our case, the private nursery has excellent wrap around provision, all meals provided, extra curricular activities in the fees and operate at well above minimum ratios. This is why we are happy to pay, the 30hrs reduces the bill substantially and then TFC gives another 20% off

I got all my hours free and that’s because I chose a playgroup over a nursery. The hours they were open were only school day hours. I paid for the lunch break which was the only portion not covered. I imagine the same is happening for you except you aren’t just paying lunch, you may be paying the after 3pm / before 9am portions.

We’re looking for help with suggestions for middle names for both Phoebe and Maddie.

Our first daughters name is Amelia Rose which is classic and has a lovely ring to it and we’re looking for a similar style for our daughter who is due in September.

We haven’t chosen a definite first name yet but our two favourites are Phoebe and Maddie.

Our surname is two syllables if this helps.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions x

You may find more luck with a childminder. I don’t charge any too ups on funding and it covers nappies wipes food drink suncream and outings.

My CM charges for nappies, and expects the parent to provide suncream for those kids who need it.

There is also a difference in the outings the kids go on if they are with those who take a funded place. However as they are small they don't care.

@RedWingBootsy main point is that everybody here has the same day, regardless of who pays the bill. We all eat the same and have the same outings.

And honestly, it’s more convenient for me to grab one bottle of suncream and one pouch of nappies for trips out as we go out every day haha!

So you put a 25 month old in the same size nappies as an 11 month year old. 🤔

That's not that unusual - the bigger sizes cover such a weight range. Mine both stayed in size 4/5 for at least a year-18m, until toilet training.

Regardless of whether the funding covers nurseries’ costs or not, the provider must make it possible to access the funded hours without incurring any additional costs. Councils must ensure billing is clear and transparent. If you are concerned about how the nursery is calculating the bill of funded places you should ask the council to look into it.

Free hours is a big con basically. It’s unfortunate you’ve only been given the schedule now just as you’re about to use it and planned around it. I’ve only got one more year of nursery left and I can’t wait. Our bill (with the 15 rather than the 30) is still over £1000 a month. It makes me laugh when I see some of the sanctimonious posts on here saying we don’t know how lucky we are getting free childcare nowadays…

It’s standard with many providers to pay a top up fee but there are some that cover it. Luckily the one we have our DD going to from September is one of these.

It’s worth pointing out, different areas get different funding rates. In my area I’m paid a lot less than my hourly rate. I know in other areas the funding is more close to the usual hourly rate and in some cases providers actually get paid more than what they usually charge. This is a rarity though and generally providers are facing a huge loss, it’s why many have already closed their doors for good as it’s unsustainable