Ex partner wants our son 4 days of the week!

[Kimberleysmith]

My ex partner and I have separated.

To cut a very long story short, all of my family live in the Midlands and I've been living with my partner up North for 8 years. I am wanting to move back for obvious reasons; emotional support, and to be closer to my family who can help me with my almost 1 year old.

My ex partner is not happy at me wanting to move back, but what is more frustrating is, he works shifts - so four days on and then four days off, he is adamant he is entitled to have our son on his four days off?!

It doesn't matter how many times I've tried to explain this cannot happen, he will not agree to anything else. We are heading for mediation, but I'd like to know in other Mum's experience, what could be a suitable arrangement here? Would I be accommodating if I suggested two days with an over night stay?

Thank you in advance 

@Terminallysleepdeprived

If you move you need to factor costs for visitation. If the dad takes you to court they can and have forced the parent that moved to fund or do all the commuting.

A child cannot have a meaningful relationship with a parent that is a 90 minute drive away.

You need to think about your child not your own wants.

Its absolutely not true that a child cannot have a meaningful relationship with a parent that lives barely a medium commute away.

@FreeBritnee

OP do you think your ex is proposing this as a way to control you? It strikes me as a very useful tool to keep the woman from being able to move on whilst painting yourself as a ‘good guy’.

Thats what I think too

@FreeBritnee

OP do you think your ex is proposing this as a way to control you? It strikes me as a very useful tool to keep the woman from being able to move on whilst painting yourself as a ‘good guy’.

Yep totally.

And when he realises just how little time he gets to himself and weighs that up against paying maintenance v paying babysitters he might realise that CM is actually (sadly) a bit of a bargain....

He's probably.only saying that so he doesn't have to pay much maintenance.
When he realises that having his son on his 4 days off means he never gets a break he'll suggest something else.

50/50 is only OK for children if they are staying in the same house. Not being shunted back and forth. I'm glad my parents never did that with me.

4 days on/ 4 days off for him does not help OP. It's all about facilitating his job, eh? Too bad if it makes life difficult for the OP, eh?

OP, get good legal advice if you want primary custody. And pursue CM.

@Nomoreusernames1244

Surely the fact he's so young is part of the problem? No way would I be parted from my one year old for that long

Maybe his dad doesn’t want to be parted from his child that long?

Well they split up so hes going to have to. Its a baby. 50-50 is not ideal for a child in a lot of cases, and babies need a primary carer. Who has been doing that role till now should continue it

He's probably.only saying that so he doesn't have to pay much maintenance

Why do people keep saying this. It’s really offensive. God forbid a man actually loves his child and wants to see them.

I actually know someone on this pattern. His ex doesn’t work so it’s perfect- his shifts are fixed for ever, they get exact shares of weekends, Christmas etc.

If you have a job it’s less good. Bear in mind though that there is no more reason his access should fit around your work than your should fit around his. If he works shifts as I assume, childcare will be impossible too and so he has no other options.

What is your job and work pattern? That will make it easier to work out

@Mrbob

He's probably.only saying that so he doesn't have to pay much maintenance

Why do people keep saying this. It’s really offensive. God forbid a man actually loves his child and wants to see them.

I actually know someone on this pattern. His ex doesn’t work so it’s perfect- his shifts are fixed for ever, they get exact shares of weekends, Christmas etc.

If you have a job it’s less good. Bear in mind though that there is no more reason his access should fit around your work than your should fit around his. If he works shifts as I assume, childcare will be impossible too and so he has no other options.

What is your job and work pattern? That will make it easier to work out

But why should he only ever see his child on days his is not at work with no consideration as to whether the OP is afforded the same?

As far as I understood it, access is decided on the needs of the child so seeing Daddy 4 days a 100% and Mummy 4 days a week around work and pick ups etc is not best for the child surely?

Its the fact that he is only interested in seeing the child when it works for him is what is making most of us think that there is more to this than being a loving parent.

@itsallgoingpearshaped

4 days on/ 4 days off for him does not help OP. It's all about facilitating his job, eh? Too bad if it makes life difficult for the OP, eh?

OP, get good legal advice if you want primary custody. And pursue CM.

I'd say moving an hour and a half away makes things difficult for the df

I think I need to read up on my rights as a Mother...

Don't forget to also look up his rights as - you know - the father.

50/50 care is what should happen and generally is in the best interests of the child.

However you need to mediate to find a way it works.

It's usually done so that each parent gets 2/4 weekends a month.
Both parents need to arrange childcare around their parenting and working.

So whilst his suggestion of pattern doesn't work for you his suggestion if 50/50 is correct.

And if he takes you to court for 50/50 and you've chosen to move away a judge can order you to do all transporting.

Get mediation asap to start working this out - for your sons sake.

I think you both need to come to a compromise, I see where hei s coming from wanting 50/50, but also its not fair on you that his days keep changing.

Maybe suggest something like Sunday morning to Wednesday morning and then Wednesday morning til Saturday evening, or something similar, that way there is a routine for your son and it will be up to him, to make sure childcare is available on his days, so it doesn't boil down to always you sorting it out.

I can't find the comment again, but your rights as a mother don't outway his rights as a father. Unless you are still breastfeeding.

Ultimately its going to come down to what is best for the child. I can well imagine that if you were to move away, you might be instructed that you have to do all the driving there and back again,

What is your current arrangement OP?

My children have done this for the last 8 years. They were older when it started though. Their dad lives about 2 miles away in the same city which helps. It’s worked well but they are both incredibly laidback kids which helps. They now stay at mine much more and have done for the past few years. When they were smaller it was really hard because I could never do anything on a set day each week so that was a definite drawback.

Im not surprised your partner is unhappy at you hoping to move so far away. Did you think about how your child would see their Dad. How would you feel?

Four days in four days off sounds reasonable to me time wise. How it works in practice is another matter.

You need to rethink your move - how will it work when your child is at school?

@LondonWolf

I’d never post about this on MN tbh. Responses to these kinds of issues never really reflect what I see in RL and I am a single parent with many single parent friends.

I totally understand where you’re coming from. Your child is under one years old and the disruption of 4 days on 4 days off just wouldn’t be in his benefit. Go to mediation, get a solicitor etc. Make it clear that this is a future goal but for now given the age of your child you would prefer a schedule that adhere to his needs not the needs of a grown adult. In my experience many men lose interest in 50/50 anyway so you may find this issue resolved itself in a year or two.

Thing is you can argue this the other way.

If he's so young maybe it's unfair to have him away 50/50 from his dad?

Perhaps dad should have full custody and OP can move home as she so he's and visit EOW?

People are so hypocritical. When people split and dads don't make the effort it's all "those selfish men babies" and when you have a dad who wants to take on 50/50 they are still selfish and just want to avoid CM.

Perhaps, just perhaps - like their partners they want to parent the child they created just like their partners do. You don't stop loving your kids because you stop loving their other parent.

Generally speaking it is up to the parent who moves to provide the transport each way to return the child for contact.

Your ex could apply very quickly for a PSO (prohibited steps order) to prevent you from moving, or indeed to ensure your return to the place where you have been living for some time (and with the child).

It would be far better for all parties to come to an agreement which works for the child, and is in the best interests of the child, because whilst you have responsibility it is the child who has rights - the right to know both parents, and if that's 4 days on 4 days off then so be it. Once a pattern / routine is in place, it is generally helpful to keep to it for the purposes of consistency.

Courts also tend to allow some degree of leeway for the parent working shifts to dictate the contact - and if your ex has a steady pattern the court will order contact accordingly - as it's four days on four days off, he would have Mon-Thur first week and you Fri-Tue, he would then get Wed-Sun and you Mon-Thur, the weekends would essentially be split 2 per month, not the end of the world.

And it's possible to get it written into the order that childcare is 50/50 split in cost if you do get a 4 on and off arrangement to fit around his shifts. You may find that's something you wish to explore.

@MahMahMahMahCorona

Generally speaking it is up to the parent who moves to provide the transport each way to return the child for contact.

Your ex could apply very quickly for a PSO (prohibited steps order) to prevent you from moving, or indeed to ensure your return to the place where you have been living for some time (and with the child).

It would be far better for all parties to come to an agreement which works for the child, and is in the best interests of the child, because whilst you have responsibility it is the child who has rights - the right to know both parents, and if that's 4 days on 4 days off then so be it. Once a pattern / routine is in place, it is generally helpful to keep to it for the purposes of consistency.

Courts also tend to allow some degree of leeway for the parent working shifts to dictate the contact - and if your ex has a steady pattern the court will order contact accordingly - as it's four days on four days off, he would have Mon-Thur first week and you Fri-Tue, he would then get Wed-Sun and you Mon-Thur, the weekends would essentially be split 2 per month, not the end of the world.

And who pays for childcare under these circumstances?

People are so hypocritical. When people split and dads don't make the effort it's all "those selfish men babies" and when you have a dad who wants to take on 50/50 they are still selfish and just want to avoid CM

Oh get real.

The bar is set so low for men that the OP, who has moved away from her own home to be with exDP and has already taken the job hit to have a baby is supposed to be grateful when the DP simultaneously says "fuck off" to any support but won't let her move to where she can get support.

At the same time 4/4 whilst superficially being "good dad, 50/50" is a pattern which will make it very difficult for the OP to find work and childcare after mat leave, whilst sparing himself any childcare costs (he has said he won't support). And what happens when the pattern moves as it always does? This isn't 50/50 where both parents are in 9-5 style jobs, cooperating and can share equitably.

Women lose out on the job progression simply by being pregnant - even if they go straight back to work. I'd also question whether this is just a convenient method of control.

The solution he's suggesting perhaps isn't workable but he would be entitled to see your child for an equal amount of time. I'm surprised you seem so outraged about this.

@C8H10N4O2

People are so hypocritical. When people split and dads don't make the effort it's all "those selfish men babies" and when you have a dad who wants to take on 50/50 they are still selfish and just want to avoid CM

Oh get real.

The bar is set so low for men that the OP, who has moved away from her own home to be with exDP and has already taken the job hit to have a baby is supposed to be grateful when the DP simultaneously says "fuck off" to any support but won't let her move to where she can get support.

At the same time 4/4 whilst superficially being "good dad, 50/50" is a pattern which will make it very difficult for the OP to find work and childcare after mat leave, whilst sparing himself any childcare costs (he has said he won't support). And what happens when the pattern moves as it always does? This isn't 50/50 where both parents are in 9-5 style jobs, cooperating and can share equitably.

Women lose out on the job progression simply by being pregnant - even if they go straight back to work. I'd also question whether this is just a convenient method of control.

Given that the op hasn't been back we don't actually know what support the ex has refused. He may well have meant she needs to get a job and fund herself as he won't be paying her housing costs or food bill, which is reasonable.

Given that the op hasn't been back we don't actually know what support the ex has refused. He may well have meant she needs to get a job and fund herself as he won't be paying her housing costs or food bill, which is reasonable

Yes the OP needs to work after taking time out to bear and care for his child. However he is making it difficult for her to find work by imposing that pattern on her availability/costs.

He says he won't support, at 50/50 he knows he won't have to stump up for CM. He should be paying half the childcare costs at the very least - that may cause him to rethink demanding all his days when it suits him instead of sharing the off days and teh work days.

Well given that this is all about him and what suits him so far is anyone so gullible as to believe that he will cheerfully say "Oh yes of course I will pay half of your childcare costs as I dont have to pay any"

That is so far from likely as to be laughable!

A good man who would offer to do that is also a man who would discuss future arrangements for the kids with a view to what works for everyone, and not present a fait accompli with threats.

I was in your exact situation a few years ago. I worked 3 days a week so needed childcare. My exh worked 4 on/4off and asked for the same. It meant that some weeks they wouldn’t go to the childcare I paid for and other weeks I wouldn’t see the dc for any meaningful time. When it got to mediation we discussed how that would work, especially when they were at school . He expected at that point it would go to EOW and half the holidays. The mediator was really good at helping us arrive at a compromise - 2 nights/1night with dates planned 2 months at a time through a shared calendar and holidays agreed in advance. Neither of us felt that starting at 50/50 and reducing down to EOW was best for dc. Doing it that way also meant he got some flexibility and I had some say in how my life was planned. Mediation really helped us take the emotional aspect out and focus on the dc.

People are so hypocritical. When people split and dads don't make the effort it's all "those selfish men babies" and when you have a dad who wants to take on 50/50 they are still selfish and just want to avoid CM.

The Dad wants 50/50 around his work schedule. That is unfair- especially if OP is paying for childcare so she can work. Do nurseries and childminders even accept a charge who is there on different days each week?