Is she taking the piss?

[Minki]

I have had a nanny for my two boys, aged 6 and 4, who started with us just over a year ago. My youngest starts school in September so the hours will drop from 40 hours per week to 20. The nanny knows this and I have discussed with her many times and asked her if she will consider staying. She said 20 hours is not enough and that she needs at least 30 but that she would try to find another job to supplement. That was about 2 months ago and she has so far not found another job. I kept saying, do you think you will stay as we can look into other options to boost your hours, e.g. nanny share, and I tried to find another family to give her extra work in the morning, but she has not seemed v interested in any of these suggestions but told me she was applying and interviewing for other jobs. I have also said that we would be happy to use her on just a few days a week if she got a full time position on other days but again, o response. I then decided, in early June, to get an au pair as I desperately needed to reduce the amount of £££ I was spending on childcare (I am literally living off my credit cards trying to make ends meet), and also because I was concerned the nanny would get another job and leave at any point. I therefore dropped her hours to 20 hours per week and am using an au-pair for the extra hours (which means I am spending £280 per week as opposed to £400, plus tax, NI etc). Thing is, I can't really afford £280 per week and would prefer to just use the au-pair, who is sat around not doing much most of the time, but didn't because I was trying to do this right thing by the nanny and keep her happy so that she would stay with us into September. I then get called yesterday by another parent asking for a reference. I gave her a good reference but she then tell me that the position the nanny is interviewing is for only 3 days after-school. I am then massively confused. I then text nanny to mention that someone has called me for a reference, which i gladly gave, but then said, do you know the position is only 3 days a week after school, and so I am offering more hours. I then said, I assume then that you are leaving and so I should look for someone else to start in September? She then said, I don't know yet, its too early to decide etc. I have now concluded that she simply doesn't want to stay with us but is not telling me until she gets another job and it has really really upset me as it feels like she is using me and has rejected the children. I have said several times, even if you stay for a few days per week that would be great as continuity for the children, but it seems she won't even consider this as she is applying for the same job, in fact, even fewer hours. This is not the first time we have been badly let down by a nanny. Really had enough.

I'd give notice TBH. She's hedging her bets. She will string you along without an answer until she has the job she wants and then let you down. I would give notice and arrange childare now for september otherwise you'll be up shit creek.

she's not taking the piss, she's looking out for herself, just as you'd do in the same situation with your own employer drastically cutting your hours / income. It doesn't seem particularly rational the way she's going about it, but I understand where she's coming from.
You're already covered for what you need, so just make her redundant / give her notice now because she's only going to b&gger about more and you can live without the disruption (however before you do - is the au pair going to e able to cope with school holidays on her own?)

ours did the same last year - we agreed terms for September in about March - reduction in hours / some babysitting thrown in to maintain her level of earnings despite reduction in hours etc. She nonetheless handed her notice in over the summer and spent the intervening period hitting up the other mothers at the school gate for jobs - inviting people to the house for playdates and asking them for a job, embarrassing them in the process (& frankly making it plain she was not employable)

I can totally understand that she is looking at for herself and understood that she needs more hours. All I asked for was honesty, i.e. I will not be staying into September, rather than I might/I might not. I also do not understand why she is interviewing for a job with fewer hours when i said we would be happy with fewer days/whatever works for us. Sounds like I am not alone in this though which is a small comfort. Just smacks of unprofessionalism to me. Think i will give her notice to finish at the end of July and use au pair (who is amazing!) throughout August. Just wish she could stay longer. Then back to the drawing board. Probably have no chance of finding an after school only nanny so will need to look at other arrangements. Such a bloody nightmare, its honestly enough to make you want to give up work. Sick of having to farm my precious boys out on crap nannies. Sorry for the rant.

can you get an au pair in September? i know it's like gold dust but we did find an after school / full time in the holidays nanny (not via an agency) in the end, and the old nanny b*ggering about ended up being the greatest favour to us! we#re saving a fortune for much better quality childcare, and someone who understands discretion!
My guess on the other role is that an agency will have sent her in - agencies seem to send anyone to any interview without checking what suits who (we had people who we sat with for a hour until it transpired they expected to do a 4 day week / bring a dog / have a step child iwth them in the holidays etc etc)

She not taking the piss. Her job was meant to go down to 20hrs in sept when boys at school but you have dropped now to that and using an au pair to cover the hours - so her income has been halved

We would all struggle with that including yourself. So what would you do. You look for a new job

She is looking after herself tho is strange she is applying for a 3dau after school position but maybe she has a 2 day job to fit around it or maybe she knows you struggle with paying her and she wants financial security

All I asked for was honesty, i.e. I will not be staying into September, rather than I might/I might not

You are confusing 'honesty' with a definitive answer. She was being honest when she said i might/might not because she doesnt actually know the answer herself.

I still think giving notice and arranging other care is your only option if you want to know what will be happening in september. She doesnt have the answer, and still mightnt have it in september!

You're both dancing around each other at the moment, both hedging your bets and neither of you can make a sensible decision because neither of you know what will be happening come September. You are the employer, you need to decide now whether you want her to stay on, and what the hours will be. Then you need to tell her exactly what her new contract will entail, or if her employment is being terminated, which you are also fully entitled to do if that suits you best - you don't owe her a job if it's bankrupting you. Then it's up to her to accept the new hours or not.

Have you considered a childminder or after-school club? Otherwise, I'm sure you'd be able to find another au pair.

You are forgetting this is her JOB. If she feels she wants to move on she can. There is no need to feel hurt and certainly not that she I'd rejecting your children. She is looking out for her best interests Which is absolutley right. She should give you any notice that you have agreed upon of course, but she shouldn't feel forced to stay with you. Please don't forget that no matter how difficult it is, she has no responsibility to tell you why exactly she is moving on, whether the hours are the true reason or not, that's not really anything to do with you.

"Sick of having to farm my precious boys out on crap nannies"
Yet you want her to stay on till the end of September? Just sounds to Mr as though you are cross that she is seeking something else!!

Maybe she is about to get another job for 2 full days so that with the 3 half days is ok. Or maybe the other job is in an area where she can meet more mums and get more work.

Whatever the case she is not 'rejecying' your children. She is trying to pay her bills. Like everyone really.

I dropped the hours because I couldn't get a straight answer from her as to what she was going PLUS it was bankrupting me. I would have somehow found the money to keep on paying her until September in order to keep her but when it became unlikely that she would stay dropped the hours. I also though it would put pressure on her to make a decision. And yes she has been less than honest. I asked her yesterday, should I assume you are not staying into September and look for someone else to which she said, no it's too early, I may decide to stay with you. So she basically wants to stay until she finds another job but doesn't want me to look for someone else. And I have given her given her financial security (over £400 per week of the last 16 months).

No, the other job is further away from where she/we live and the area we live in could not be more family friendly, with loads of other nannies, parks etc. There isn't really an explanation for it other than she has doesn't want the job. I texted back to say, I did say that we would like to to stay even if just for 3 or 4 days and she hasn't bothered replying. And yes, sorry I have been mucked about a massive amount by nannies over the last 6 years so feel that the reference to "crap nannies" is entirely justified.

Again, you are the employer, tell her what you expect from her come September and ask her to make a decision now. But you also need to keep in mind that she is fully entitled to change her mind and resign in August. If you think she's a "crap nanny", why do you want to keep her on anyway?

I think you are getting to emotionally invested in your childcare arrangements. Yes, it's important to like them and feel confident that your children are being lovingly cared for. BUT, at the end of the day, neither of you are doing the other a favour, it's a simple employment contract and you need to put your business hat on.

I did tell her when I dropped her hours. I gave her a month's notice (the contract called for 2 weeks) and set out clearly the hours and that from September it would be 3-7pm 5 days per week. I think she has already decided TBH and, as you say, even if she says yes now, there is nothing to stop her leaving in August or even September, which would have been fine had I known all along but after all this mucking around I think I just want her to go. I don't want someone to stay just because she can't find anything better. Will give her notice to finish at the end of July.

You dropped her hours to put pressure on her to give you an answer?

Nice. is that legal?

Yes, it is completely legal thank you STOPwiththe (begin unfair). Why wouldn't it be? You also missed the second part of the sentence which said "AND because is was bankrupting me." Can you afford £400 a week plus TAX and NI (on a single salary I hasten to add as I am a single parent)? I can't.

Actually i didnt miss the part where you said it was bankrupting you. I saw it.

I dropped the hours because I couldn't get a straight answer from her as to what she was going PLUS it was bankrupting me. I would have somehow found the money to keep on paying her until September in order to keep her but when it became unlikely that she would stay dropped the hours. I also though it would put pressure on her to make a decision.

You say you would have found the money to keep her until september but didnt because you realised she wouldnt be staying and that you wanted to put pressure on her to give you an answer. Dont try and pretend this was just about your finances. That was a nasty move!

Can you afford £400 a week plus TAX and NI (on a single salary I hasten to add as I am a single parent)? I can't.

A single salary could be anything from £100 a week to £10,000,000. The term single salary means nothing unless you specify what the salary is. Plus, you clearly could afford it as you had been doing it for a year (you also mentioned other nannies, so i assume longer than a year)

Yeah, right! Don't make me laugh. Actually, I love my children a lot and would have dug myself deeper into debt for the sake of continuity. When I realised that person wasn't engaging with me in a sensible discussion about the options or even communicating to me what she was doing, I decided that perhaps I should not be pulling out all the stops to keep her and should do what made sense to me financially, which is to drop her hours. Can you afford to pay £400 a week out of the goodness of your heart? Can you? Your response is a joke and you have NO IDEA what I have been through with nannies whilst trying to hold down a full time job as a single mother. Kindly take your misinformed comments somewhere else.

Er, no, I can't afford it which is why I am 30k in debt. I was holding out until September when my little one goes to school. What other options would you like me to look at, please do tell? Or should I give up my job?

Nurseries and childminders are a lot less expensive. If you have a long commute, I found that using a nursery near work made more sense.

Nannies tend to be the most expensive childcare option.

And yes, I have had previous nannies including one who got pregnant 2 months into the job then went off sick for 2 months, back a month, off a month and expected full pay for sick days. I also had to find temp nannies at no notice when she didn't turn up, leave them with strange temp nannies they had never met before, then have the privilege of paying her out redundancy and holiday pay which amounted to over £2k, and had the luxury of paying an agency a recruitment fee on a new nanny. Lucky me! Oh and I also got divorced last year (my ex had an affair and left) which is why my income has reduced considerably but I wanted to keep the nanny to provide stability for the children. I thought i could last a year until the little one went to school. Again, silly me.

When I realised that person wasn't engaging with me in a sensible discussion about the options or even communicating to me what she was doing, I decided that perhaps I should not be pulling out all the stops to keep her

Yes, so why didnt you give notice? She wasnt being open with you, she wasnt giving you any answers so why keep her on at all? Because it suited you to keep her on but pay less. You were happy to ignore her lack of communication as long as it suited you. But now suddenly when she takes the initiative to look elsewhere for work you are using the lack of communication as justification for cutting her pay, hoping that she would panic and give you the answer you wanted.

You may be a single mother but you are still an employer and she is still an employee. She owes you now extra loyalty because you are struggling, can you imagine how it must be for her to have her wages cut in half?

Not sure AT ALL Annie. Don't know where you live but nurseries around here are at least £80 per day, usually £90, and that's for one child. I would have to find after-school care for my older son. And I cannot think of anything worse than taking my 4 year old on the tube with me to work to leave him at a nursery nearby, all of which are more expensive. I also HATE nurseries and would never leave my child in that setting.