Is she taking the piss?

[Minki]

I have had a nanny for my two boys, aged 6 and 4, who started with us just over a year ago. My youngest starts school in September so the hours will drop from 40 hours per week to 20. The nanny knows this and I have discussed with her many times and asked her if she will consider staying. She said 20 hours is not enough and that she needs at least 30 but that she would try to find another job to supplement. That was about 2 months ago and she has so far not found another job. I kept saying, do you think you will stay as we can look into other options to boost your hours, e.g. nanny share, and I tried to find another family to give her extra work in the morning, but she has not seemed v interested in any of these suggestions but told me she was applying and interviewing for other jobs. I have also said that we would be happy to use her on just a few days a week if she got a full time position on other days but again, o response. I then decided, in early June, to get an au pair as I desperately needed to reduce the amount of £££ I was spending on childcare (I am literally living off my credit cards trying to make ends meet), and also because I was concerned the nanny would get another job and leave at any point. I therefore dropped her hours to 20 hours per week and am using an au-pair for the extra hours (which means I am spending £280 per week as opposed to £400, plus tax, NI etc). Thing is, I can't really afford £280 per week and would prefer to just use the au-pair, who is sat around not doing much most of the time, but didn't because I was trying to do this right thing by the nanny and keep her happy so that she would stay with us into September. I then get called yesterday by another parent asking for a reference. I gave her a good reference but she then tell me that the position the nanny is interviewing is for only 3 days after-school. I am then massively confused. I then text nanny to mention that someone has called me for a reference, which i gladly gave, but then said, do you know the position is only 3 days a week after school, and so I am offering more hours. I then said, I assume then that you are leaving and so I should look for someone else to start in September? She then said, I don't know yet, its too early to decide etc. I have now concluded that she simply doesn't want to stay with us but is not telling me until she gets another job and it has really really upset me as it feels like she is using me and has rejected the children. I have said several times, even if you stay for a few days per week that would be great as continuity for the children, but it seems she won't even consider this as she is applying for the same job, in fact, even fewer hours. This is not the first time we have been badly let down by a nanny. Really had enough.

Honestly as an employer you sound like a sinking ship. If I was working for someone who every time they paid my wages trying to make me feel guilty about being paid, that they couldn't pay the bills and were in huge debt then I'd be desperate to get away. You changed the terms you had agreed to by halving her hours three months earlier than intended, and you are openly hostile and aggressive with her (as you've demonstrated on this thread.)

You expect what you yourself will not give.

Who said I made her feel guilty every time i paid her?? I have done no such thing. Please do stick to the facts here. She has no idea how i fund her salary nor would I bore her with the details of my financial situation but she can see herself that I am a single parent and that anyone would struggle with full responsibility for childcare costs and mortgage, and all bills etc, even if on a good salary. I pay for her salary out of my wages but that uses up pretty much any disposable income I have. There was no agreement, contractual or otherwise, to keep her until September but she has known throughout that my youngest goes to school in September and that the hours will drop then or possibly before. Noone, including myself, has a job guaranteed up to a certain date. The only thing guaranteed is your notice period.

If she is desperate to get away then a) why hasn't she and b) why is she asking me not to look for someone else? Why have I also just received a text from her apologising for not being clearer and saying that she wants very much to keep working with me?

Teeb, as a human being you sound like a sinking ship. I go above and beyond what many employer of nannies do, including paying tax and NI on her salary, out of my own salary that has already been taxed to 40%.

I told her at the start of the year that I was struggling with £400 per week and said on an almost monthly basis that I would have to get an au pair so she has been well aware of this sometime.

How would that make you feel if your boss told frequently told you that they were struggling and considering replacing you with cheap foreign labour? Would it give you a feeling of job security and a sense of loyalty to the employer? I don't think so.

And I have given her given her financial security (over £400 per week of the last 16 months)

you have paid her for doing a job of looking after your children while you work - she shouldnt need to feel grateful for you paying her wages, but does sound like the past few months you cant afford/begrudge paying her and she probably worried about losing her job/income in sept yet you do that in june BEFORE what you agreed to previously

if you paid redundancy to the other nanny then she must have been with you over 2years, therefore she cant have been that bad nanny or you would have got rid of her

again redundancy and holidays are a basic right as an employee, you would get them, why shouldnt a nanny?

oh dear op.

Teeb, as a human being you sound like a sinking ship

you are being very immature.

Btw- paying tax and NI on your nanny's salary is not going 'above and beyond'. You are legally obliged to as an employer. And yes of course it comes out of your salary- where else would it come from your salary is what it is because you employ a nanny!

Also- you arent getting taxed at 40% on all your salary.

Minki
the phraseology you are using is a bit odd.
You dont 'give' her money. You pay her for the job.
You dont go 'above' by paying her tax. You have to.

I think it is awful that you tell her every month about your money problems.

How come she didnt get the job then after your excellent references?

If you can't afford a nanny now, and have been struggling for a while, then you need to be honest and give a months notice.

It does sound as if nanny hasn't got a clue what she is going to do, but it's very disorientating to be told in x amount of time your hours will be reduced, and then you reduce them earlier. That was never going to give you a positive reaction- most nannies would have just walked out at that point.

It's very sensible to stick around until you find another job, that's all the nanny seems to be doing. You cant blame her for this predicament!

OP, I think you should read your thread. You sound absolutely ridiculous!

Thanks all of the helpful and constructive sh*t, sorry advice. I will give her 2 weeks notice today. It's not what she wants but mumsnet knows best, right? No wonder this place has the reputation it does.

Minki- no need to get snarky because you didn't get the response you want.

Learn from situation, move on, and it's done. Your not a victim, don't be silly.

BerylStreep, I think you sound absolutely ridiculous too who hasn't a clue about the real world.

...just wanted to add I don't always agree with some comments posted on here, some posters do seem to just enjoy being nasty, but having read this thread, I don't believe anyone was unkind or cruel to you!

I did actually. The first few comments on this thread were helpful. The rest was based on a load of rubbish. "I tell her every month about my money problems" Er, no I don't but even if I did that would be appropriate. If you make someone redundant you go through a consultation process which involves informing them of the reasons why you are making them redundant, which is a critical process of making it fair, as is providing notice. Legally I have done everything right (and I do know, I am a lawyer) so I don't need the (mostly wrong) legal tit bits, just wanted to to understand what this person is doing, should I assume she is staying and not recruit anyone or should i assume she is leaving. The first few posts at least answered that, as have some friends in a similar situation, the rest just turned into a tirade of shit.

you think that you go over and above as an employer by doing what is legally required of you in terms of tax and NI?
I really am not convinced that employing a nanny is right for you. You may well find a childminder suits you better.
you're a lawyer, you should realise how ridiculous some of your comments sound.

Maybe shouldn't give her two weeks notice just yet, Minki.

That would mean she finishes up around the 14th of July and I've just noticed your other current thread saying your Au Pair would like to take holiday until the 16th!

Probably best not to give that two weeks notice until the the 3rd.

Bristol watch out, you're not allowed to point out that the OP is being ridiculous.

she's not ridiculous, just some of the comments...
I often find my teeth itching with rage when I read the employment boards when there are mass outpourings of "go and get yourself signed off sick for the next two weeks" when people have had a spat with a colleague or similar, as if screwing over employers is just the done thing, but then you find employers who think that paying tax and NI are a privilege / added bonus and it confuses me.

I don't think I go over and above BECAUSE I pay TAX and NI but I would like to point out that I DO PAY tax and NI and many many don't. I have gone over and above in being accommodating/flexible with this person (please stay, even for 1/2/3/4 days per week etc, given her months to decide, not fixed a deadline etc) and was continuing to pay her for 20 hours per week when I could just be using an au-pair as i) I didn't want to cut her off when she does not have another job and ii) I was hoping he would stay on. I was saying this in face face of being accused of being SHITTY because I had to reduce her hours FOR GENUINE ECONOMIC REASONS. And yes thank you Bristol, nannies are definitely "not right" for me. "Childcare" in general isn't right for me. I would like to look after my kids myself but can't as someone needs to pay the mortgage and bills and buy food? Can I ask you all how you manage given that you are all so perfect? Do please tell so I can correct my awful SHITTY ways.

And yes, I object to paying tax and NI on her wages on my salary that has already been taxed. Yes I do. It's called DOUBLE TAXATION. How on earth do you want people to afford this? Childcare in this country is not affordable unless you are minted or on the breadline.

A nanny is the most expensive though minki unfortunately if you employ one, you just have to put up with the cost of one...I assume you looked into the costs prior to employment?

I'm not sure what response you were expecting from people on here...I don't think the nanny is to blame for your current situation.

I hope the au pair proves to be a much more successful arrangement.

Didn't reliese you did the other au pair holiday thread.

The nanny has a gross salary which the employer deducts ni and tax from - you are not doing anything amazing by paying the tax and no

Why employ an au pair since June to sept as well as a nanny. That's double childcare and money you can't afford

Seems you need to give notice to your nanny - or she may be reading this now -

But yes if 2 weeks notice you will need to make sure you have childcare and also possibly pay nanny holiday depending what she has taken over the months

Hope your ap works out

And no one is perfect but employers treat their nannies with respect and how they would like to be treated - maybe that's why their nannies stay

I am employing both because an au-pair is £80! Over the summer holidays I will need 50 hours a week which is £500 which I cannot afford. At least this way I will be paying 20 hours or £200 to the nanny and £80 to the au-pair, so a total of £280. I was also worried (and it seems with good reason) that the nanny can give me 2 weeks notice at any point at which point I am totally screwed. I also need babysitting and am often late back from work, all charged at £10 an hour. It all racks up to a massive amount. The au-pair has only been working for 2 weeks (she moved in early June and started on 16th) and is amazing and it is already making a huge difference financially. I am spending £280 a week instead of £400.