Is she taking the piss?

[Minki]

I have had a nanny for my two boys, aged 6 and 4, who started with us just over a year ago. My youngest starts school in September so the hours will drop from 40 hours per week to 20. The nanny knows this and I have discussed with her many times and asked her if she will consider staying. She said 20 hours is not enough and that she needs at least 30 but that she would try to find another job to supplement. That was about 2 months ago and she has so far not found another job. I kept saying, do you think you will stay as we can look into other options to boost your hours, e.g. nanny share, and I tried to find another family to give her extra work in the morning, but she has not seemed v interested in any of these suggestions but told me she was applying and interviewing for other jobs. I have also said that we would be happy to use her on just a few days a week if she got a full time position on other days but again, o response. I then decided, in early June, to get an au pair as I desperately needed to reduce the amount of £££ I was spending on childcare (I am literally living off my credit cards trying to make ends meet), and also because I was concerned the nanny would get another job and leave at any point. I therefore dropped her hours to 20 hours per week and am using an au-pair for the extra hours (which means I am spending £280 per week as opposed to £400, plus tax, NI etc). Thing is, I can't really afford £280 per week and would prefer to just use the au-pair, who is sat around not doing much most of the time, but didn't because I was trying to do this right thing by the nanny and keep her happy so that she would stay with us into September. I then get called yesterday by another parent asking for a reference. I gave her a good reference but she then tell me that the position the nanny is interviewing is for only 3 days after-school. I am then massively confused. I then text nanny to mention that someone has called me for a reference, which i gladly gave, but then said, do you know the position is only 3 days a week after school, and so I am offering more hours. I then said, I assume then that you are leaving and so I should look for someone else to start in September? She then said, I don't know yet, its too early to decide etc. I have now concluded that she simply doesn't want to stay with us but is not telling me until she gets another job and it has really really upset me as it feels like she is using me and has rejected the children. I have said several times, even if you stay for a few days per week that would be great as continuity for the children, but it seems she won't even consider this as she is applying for the same job, in fact, even fewer hours. This is not the first time we have been badly let down by a nanny. Really had enough.

Ok, you asked... I employ a nanny on a contract which sets out her hours. I pay her tax adn NI and car mileage allowance, out of my taxed income. There's probably some VAT on the expenses I pay so TRIPLE that taxation. I afford it by having a better paid job than her.
If your employer lost a big client and turned to you tomorrow and said that you're only required 4 hours a day, but on each day of the week rather than squashed into 3 days, I suspect you'd start looking for another firm because you would be unable to pay your mortgage on that basis. I doubt the partnership would start railing against you heading off to Michael Page under those circumstances. Nobody is suggesting you're being shitty for reducing her hours, what you're being shitty for is expecting her to thank you for the reduced hours and accept it without examining her own options and going and finding herself a job that suits her own economic needs, and for getting so aggressive
What other people do when their need for childcare hours reduces is either pay an uplifted salary for the reduced hours if the nanny agrees it (which of course they don't have to) / get wraparound care from a childminder / use an au pair instead with holiday clubs as well.

And BristolRover, do you afford that all by yourself or do you have a partner helping? Lets make sure we have a level playing field here. I have absolutely no objection AT ALL to her leaving, or staying, I would just like to be told and not mucked around. Nor do i expect a thank you for the reduced hours, again, I have offered her a job and would have liked the courtesy of a response rather than having to assume from her conduct (and from phone calls from potential employers) that she doesn't want it.

I wasn't aware we were competing over household expenses. For 5 yrs I covered it myself,now I share. Try getting your offspring's other parent to contribute or cut your cloth according to what you can afford. Not sure why you ask how I pay then get snippy when I tell you. It makes you sound like you should take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard for a while

Where did I say I expected her to thank me for it and that I didn't think she should look for other jobs? Where? All I objected to was the complete lack of clarity and being strung along until she finds another job. It may be fair enough she is looking but at least allow me to look for another nanny. My needs and those of my kids don't count, right??? You earn it by having a better paid job? The arrogance. Even earning 3 x what my nanny earn does not make it affordable, not with tax, mortgage and other costs. Not at all. Do you live in London and spend an extortionate amount on a mortgage? Probably not if you are giving your nanny a car allowance.

Again, the pure arrogance and IGNORANCE. Try getting the other parent to contribute??? Now yes, did I not spend 30k last year going to court to fight to stay in the martial home after my ex had and affair, left us then wanted us out? It cost 30k but I won. How else would you like me to get him to contribute? Again, please do tell otherwise shut up.

your needs and those of your kids don't enter into a legal employer / employee relationship, no. It's a very unusual situation with domestic employees / small family businesses. Employees don't work out of the goodness of their heart, it's a job

CSA->

And how much does the CSA order Bristol?? Again, do tell?? Is it possibly 20%? And what if that person is earning nothing? 20% of nothing, right??? Yes, valium is about the only sensible suggestion you have had. Next time I will get a prescription of valium instead of even thinking about consulting mums net. Useless nannies, cheating exes, work stress I can all deal with - smug twats on mums net just sends me over the edge.

Was it really wise to get 30k into debt in order to stay in a house that has an extortionate mortgage?

For a lawyer you certainly dont speak with a professional attitude here. Telling people to shut up? How do you cope with troublesome cases? Tell your clients to shut up or piss off?

Oh you really are lovely.

Minki there is no need to go down that road.

Does your nanny have a contract?

Could it not just be that she was waiting until she had to give notice before telling you what she was going to do? If you originally said Sept you would reduce her hours, in her mind, and mine, could she not be thinking, oh ok, so I don't have to tell her my plans until second week in August??

If you wanted to know before hand, you should have put it in writing, a final date in which you would like to know her plans. As I said in previous post, she must be feeling really disorientated. What if she had said to you she will stay with you full time until sept, but then leave- would you have still reduced her hours? You originally said you did that to force her to make a decision- that's disgusting! How would you feel if your employer did that to you? You also said that you feel like you go above and beyond because you pay her tax.

I don't know if you have said things for affect, or because your annoyed, but the responses you got came about because of what you said. Perhaps reread this thread, and then you will be able to understand some of your replies more clearly.

Yes, and you are all really delightful. Yes, I am shit at my job too, that's why they keep employing me. Keep going, go on. Nice witch hunt for this EVIL bitch who tries to keep a long term nanny on for her kids.

holy cow. The au pair's going to get both barrels sooner or later.

YOu asked for opinions. my childcare arrangements & affordability with mortgage don't really come into it, and while you'd like to think that your ex cheating is somehow my fault / MN's fault -it's not. You are unlikely to get constructive help by treating people like this professionally, socially or as an employer.

Tell you what, I'll fire the nanny and swallow a pack of valium?? That would make you all really happy right.

Please tell me you are aware of how uncalled for your nasty posts have been. You are aware this is not an appropriate way to talk to people or react to opinions you disagree with. You do have at least that awareness, right?

Maybe your nanny just doesn't know what she will do yet and that is why she has not been clear with you.

If my hours were going to be halved I would look for another job and no I wouldn't tell my current employer until I HAD too. So that would be when I had found another job that suits me better and was giving my notice. In this case two weeks.

If she told you she was looking for a new job, presumably you would give her notice and if she can't find anything im the meantime she would find herself unemployed.

Serious chip on shoulder!

Indeed AChild you wonder sometimes if karma really is true for some unpleasant people.

I would call an end to it all, but get proper legal advice on how to do this. I know far too many employers who have come a cropper with nannies who appear to verbally agree to one thing at the end of a job and then end up being taken to an employment tribunal.

Be warned.

FFF x

Apologies, I cut some text but then did not paste it back where I wanted it!

Sorry about that.

This is what my first paragraph should read.

This is not a healthy employer-nanny relationship and it will start to rub off on your children. Therefore I think you should be totally fair to your nanny, who has taken the role believing it is a full-time position.

Then my paragraph shown above should follow that.

Sorry,

FFF X

I think the problem is that because most nanny employers know that nannies usually have a 4 week notice period, if they are looking for a nanny to start in Sept, they may well not have started looking yet, becuase the nannies looking for jobs now are porbably looking for something to start earlier. That has been my experience as a nanny employer anyway. I really do not think your nanny is being unreasonable - she only has 2/4 (not sure) week notice in her contract - if you want longer notice to give you certainty then next time write that in the contract (although of course it works both ways). If i were her I would be looking for a full time job for Sept to give the certainty of income (although it is possible to manage 2 part time jobs, it is much more uncertain for the nanny as if one of the jobs falls though in the future it is harder to get another part time role that exactly fits - there is therefore much more turnover of part time nannies). But I would also look for part time roles as a fallback, whether to combine with your job or with each other, because these days full time roles are not that easy to come by. I do not think she can give you certainty becuase she genuinely does not know yet what might be available and it is not unreasonable for her to want to keep her current job as a fallback, until the time comes when she has to give notice. I would not read too much into the fact she is looking at other part time roles - the other employer may not have been clear about hours when she applied or maybe she was worried you would change your mind again or was testing to see if she could get more per hour.

But although I do not think she is being unreasonable, I do sympathise with the personal side of it and your desire of have as much notice and certainty as possible for the children. it is just one of the risks/downsides of using a nanny as childcare because the legal obligations as an employer are not always wholly compatible with the personal wishes as a parent. FWIW we have found a replacement nanny in a week before (in that case the short notice was due to DH's change in plans rather than nanny) and actually she is great - we could not have found someone better if we had looked for 2 months. Had that not worked out, though, we were prepared to use a temp nanny agency for a period.

It was a healthy working relationship and we have never had a cross word. She texted me today to say how much she enjoyed the job and wanted to stay. This thread has made me feel very differently about it.

tbh if you have 2 weeks notice in contract, then the nanny only has to give you that if/when she finds a job - why would she tell you of her plans

esp as you said sept hours go to 20 from 40, but you have done in 3 mths early

you only need to give her 2 weeks as well - works both ways, tho i think 2 weeks isnt enough for employee or employer

It's more than enough if you have have to give pay in lieu of notice. Yes it is contractually 2 weeks but as a courtesy I have told her my long term plan and given her months of notice in advance of any changes being made. Next time I will stick to 2 weeks notice and not mention any plans or changes. Sucks from an employment law perspective which is all about communication/notice/being offered alternatives but there you go.

i have always had 8 weeks in my contracts but then i stay in my jobs long term and normally get made redundant as kids at school fulltime, and yes means the family pay me redundancy