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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Is she taking the piss?

115 replies

Minki · 30/06/2014 10:37

I have had a nanny for my two boys, aged 6 and 4, who started with us just over a year ago. My youngest starts school in September so the hours will drop from 40 hours per week to 20. The nanny knows this and I have discussed with her many times and asked her if she will consider staying. She said 20 hours is not enough and that she needs at least 30 but that she would try to find another job to supplement. That was about 2 months ago and she has so far not found another job. I kept saying, do you think you will stay as we can look into other options to boost your hours, e.g. nanny share, and I tried to find another family to give her extra work in the morning, but she has not seemed v interested in any of these suggestions but told me she was applying and interviewing for other jobs. I have also said that we would be happy to use her on just a few days a week if she got a full time position on other days but again, o response. I then decided, in early June, to get an au pair as I desperately needed to reduce the amount of £££ I was spending on childcare (I am literally living off my credit cards trying to make ends meet), and also because I was concerned the nanny would get another job and leave at any point. I therefore dropped her hours to 20 hours per week and am using an au-pair for the extra hours (which means I am spending £280 per week as opposed to £400, plus tax, NI etc). Thing is, I can't really afford £280 per week and would prefer to just use the au-pair, who is sat around not doing much most of the time, but didn't because I was trying to do this right thing by the nanny and keep her happy so that she would stay with us into September. I then get called yesterday by another parent asking for a reference. I gave her a good reference but she then tell me that the position the nanny is interviewing is for only 3 days after-school. I am then massively confused. I then text nanny to mention that someone has called me for a reference, which i gladly gave, but then said, do you know the position is only 3 days a week after school, and so I am offering more hours. I then said, I assume then that you are leaving and so I should look for someone else to start in September? She then said, I don't know yet, its too early to decide etc. I have now concluded that she simply doesn't want to stay with us but is not telling me until she gets another job and it has really really upset me as it feels like she is using me and has rejected the children. I have said several times, even if you stay for a few days per week that would be great as continuity for the children, but it seems she won't even consider this as she is applying for the same job, in fact, even fewer hours. This is not the first time we have been badly let down by a nanny. Really had enough.

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Minki · 30/06/2014 13:05

Then she is free to resign isn't she? AND I have given her notice, loads of notice in fact.

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Minki · 30/06/2014 13:08

Legally, I am absolutely entitled to reduce her hours. I gave her a month's notice instead of her contractual notice of 2 weeks before I reduced. I should clearly expect no communication as to what she intends to do in September but be prepared for her to resign at any point. The only way to prepare for this is to give her notice and hire someone else.

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Minki · 30/06/2014 13:13

I didn't give her notice before as she had told me that she would try to find a way to stay by looking for a supplemental job with additional hours and so I hoped she would find a way to stay. She is obviously not doing this. I should also add that at the same time I dropped her hours I arranged a nanny share with another family 3 days a week from 11.30-3 so she gets an extra £100 per week from that, plus I am still paying her for 20 hours so she is not currently out of pocket at all.

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MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:22

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STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 13:25

You are absolutely entitled to reduce her hours, it was the fact that you stated one of the reasons for doing so was to put pressure on her to give you an answer. That is dodgy ground for an employer to be on.

I should clearly expect no communication as to what she intends to do in September but be prepared for her to resign at any point

You should expect clear and honest communication and if after being asked she still doesnt give it then you are entitled to end her employment with you. Dropping her pay to make her life uncomfortable so she will be pressured into giving an answer is very underhand.

Minki · 30/06/2014 13:27

And you too MellowAutumn, if you think it's right that an employee doesn't at least owe you a degree of honesty. I have been beyond fair in this, my only fault is to try to keep employing her. I should have just terminated her employment.

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STOPwiththehahaheheloling · 30/06/2014 13:29

Yes you should.

BerylStreep · 30/06/2014 13:36

I can understand why your nanny is pissed off. You told her she was having her hours cut in September from 40 to 20, yet you brought that forward by 3 months and cut the hours in June.

I'm not sure that communicating by text is the best way to deal with this either.

Arranging childcare at this age is really tough - we have all been there. I have had nannies, used day care, used a childminder, and now use after school club.

Nanny was great, but expensive and you are dependent on one person, who can let you down. My DC hated daycare, as did I, and in any event, it is usually prohibitive in terms of just after-school childcare. Our CM was fantastic, and DS's school now has a fantastic after-school club.

I think your best bet is to give notice now, use the AP during the summer, and then try to either get another AP or a CM.

MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:37

Just give her notice, she probably doesn't have a clue what to do and is just applying for anything. You had the right to cut her wages but seam to have no understanding of its probable impact.

MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:39

And no I don't think she owes you any honesty, you cut her hours 3 months before you said you would - as you say completely legally - but it was still a shitty thing to do.

Minki · 30/06/2014 13:46

Not remotely "shitty" that I didn't continue in an arrangement I could no longer afford for the sake of keeping someone who didn't want to stay but hadn't bothered to tell me. I told her at the start of the year that I was struggling with £400 per week and said on an almost monthly basis that I would have to get an au pair so she has been well aware of this sometime. I am absolutely entitled to drop her hours without being called SHITTY. So she is allowed to do what works for her financially but I can't?

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Minki · 30/06/2014 13:50

The communications about her role have all been in writing, with double the amount of notice required, preceded by me telling her months in advance what I had planned. No surprises at any time. The communications by text where when I received a surprise call over the weekend from someone asking for a reference. I didn't even know I had been put as a referee. I was that "shitty" that I gave a good reference but we were both slightly confused as to why the nanny was applying for a 3 day a week after school position on the basis that she needs more hours, when I am offering her a 5 day a week after school position. I have essentially had the offer open to her for the last 3 months at least. I think if the offer is not accepted then I am entitled to make my own plans.

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Minki · 30/06/2014 13:53

And yes MellowAutumn, as an employee you do owe your employer a duty of honesty and good faith. If looking after kids that duty is surely heightened. I know of several other families in similar situations where they asked the nanny months ago what their plans were and the nanny has given a firm yes I will stay, no I won't, none of this mucking around, withholding information etc.

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MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:57

Minki, you are an employer and yes legally as you are so keen to stress were in the right, but basically not making a decision and sticking to it, plus giving having her worry about her wages on as you put it a monthly basis since January ( that would make you a joy to work for I'm sure- was it every time you handed over her wages ?but without actually doing anything about it except saying September and then changing it to now' - but expecting her to take the wage cut on the nose and be 'honest' with you , is yes all just a bit shifty. The fact you cannot see how unreasonable and unprofessional you are just sort of confirms it.

MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 13:58

The mucking around remark is just so funny :)

BerylStreep · 30/06/2014 13:59

TBH, you sound very aggressive - you have asked for views, but don't seem to be willing to accept that that there is any other viewpoint than your own. Perhaps she wants to look for another employer because she finds you hard work?

On the one hand, you have been telling her for months that you can't afford to pay her, yet you want a concrete undertaking that she will be staying September. It just sounds very intense and demanding.

Minki · 30/06/2014 14:12

Not looking for a concrete undertaking at all. Just an indication of what she is going to do or a yes or no. Giving her time to worry about her wages? Well she would have had a lot more to worry about if I had just terminated her employment and she has been looking for months and not found anything. Very intense and demanding? Don't make me laugh. I have had 3 or 4 conversations with all, all framed along the lines of, we would love you to stay, how can I help you, what other options can we look at? How awful for her. I should have just given her 2 week notice, no warning or explanation. How awful of me to want her to stay on.

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Minki · 30/06/2014 14:15

If she wants to work elsewhere that is absolutely fine. She just needs to resign. She hasn't. She has asked me not to start looking for someone else as she hasn't decided what she is doing. How is that fair? She can look for other jobs but I can't make alternative childcare arrangements?

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MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 14:19

Give her notice

Minki · 30/06/2014 14:20

Yes, I am such awful hard work. Like the time when two mothers complained to me about her, telling me that she was on her phone and not watching the boys properly. I was such "hard work" that I discussed it with her, asked her to be more careful etc, instead of firing her as many others would have done, and many told me to do.

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Minki · 30/06/2014 14:21

So funny MellowAutumn that you are trying to help this poor nanny by telling me to give her notice when she has asked me not to as she may want the job. She may, she may not, I just have to wait for her to decide.

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TheGirlFromIpanema · 30/06/2014 14:26

It's her right to not tell you at all about her plans for the future at all if she chooses. You buy her time at an agreed rate, you don't buy the right to control her thoughts, feelings or actions (outside of her employment commitments) I am afraid. Nor can you demand that she resign as soon as she is not 100% happy with the arrangements.

MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 14:26

No you don't have to wait , just give her notice properly and sort you childcare out.ffs. it's not very complicated, she's hardly a prize by the sound of it and you will be able to untie the knot in your knickers.

MellowAutumn · 30/06/2014 14:28

I'm not trying to help the poor Nanny I'm trying to help you deal with this in a professional manner.

Minki · 30/06/2014 14:35

Yes, she is entitled to do all of that, just as I am entitled to reduce her contractual hours without being accused of being "shitty".

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