nanny driving issue

[silverfrog]

we have had our live-in nanny with us for 6 weeks or so now.

she is doing reasonably well at adjusting and coping (dd1 is ASD, this is nanny's first SN placement).

BUT

a large part of her job is driving - school runs (dds go to 2 different schools, always will. dd1's school run is 15 miles each way, part motorway, part urban, part tiny country lanes). nanny has never driven in this country before, but does hold full EU licence, and has doen for a few years. drives happily and confidently in her home country (apparently)

we have, all along, been upfront about the drive - highlighted that it wasn't for the fainthearted, that she would need to be comfortable driving as, due to timing differences etc, a large part of her job is driving.

we explicitly asked her if she thought she would be ok doing this. she said she would, but would appreciate some refresher lessons - we took this to mean gettingused ot driving on the left, familiarisation wit route kind of stuff. we agreed this, and have, imo, been generous in paying for these lessons.

she has, so far, had 10 hours of lessons - mostly in a dual control car ( - starting to look more like actual learnng to drive than refresher lessons) but has now moved on to using my car for lessons.

lessons have been taken in her normal working hours, thus inconveniencing me even more - I have had to drive an absolute tank of a car (Mercedes Viano) down narrow country lanes to fetch dd1 at times. I don't really mind, but it's not the greatest thing to have to do, especially in the wet.

so anyway. nanny had what was supposed ot be her last lesson yesterday.

today, she has made no mention of driving at all. not a query as to how we might handle the change over, not a peep at all.

so I took dd1 to school. came back, nanny wanted to take dd2 swimming, and expected her usual lift there and back.

then I had to set off to get dd1 form school (Friday + half day at her SN school). I get back to the house at 2.30pm, having had about 30 mins to myself all day, snatched in between school runs and taxi runs.

I ask nanny why she didn't drive at all today, not even to go into town swimming with dd2 (about 3 mile round trip ), and she says "because I felt a bit scared to do it, but I will be ok form Monday"

now I am deeply that she will be ok on Monday - what's going to change between now and then? (no more lessons booked)

I am away next week form Tuesday to friday, so it looks as though dd1 will not be going to school (how am I supposed ot be comfortable with her driving the girls around if, after 10 hours of refresher lessons she is too worried to even drive the car into town and park in the nice, generously sized spaces at theleisure centre?)

I'm screwed, really, aren't I?

We're heading into winter, its already dark by the time I collect dd1 after school - there's no way I'm going to trust her easily on the school run.

so, it's look for a new nanny, or shell out for even more lessons (which I am *seriously about - we agreed to a couple of lessons, and have already more than covered that, imo)

wwyd?

I know what it is like to have a nanny who thinks that she can drive, only to then find out that she can't.

One's driving abilities is however a very subjective topic, and I would never classify a difference in perception about this as lying in any way at all, and it is sad that htis is the terminology being banded about. There is a world of difference between driving around a suburban town and driving down single-track country roads with blind bends, so I can imagine that would knock the confidence of anyone. We live in a similar rural area so I know what it is like worrying about them on the roads and it has taken some of our APs/Nannies a while to get their confidence up (and even longer to get our own confidence in them up).

So are you going to let her go at the 3 month break stage in the ocntract, or are you giving it a go with her?

Actually, Strix, if my employer made it clear to me that I was free to take the car and do driving practice if I didn't feel confident (and had said so on Friday when I was expected to drive on Monday) during the weekend then I would do it, because I wouldn't want to be responsible and wouldn't be happy taking children in a car when I myself wasn't confident in my ability to drive. So yes, something like driving practice I would expect to do in my own time.

But then I'd also have been actively seeking opportunities to drive alone or with just 1 child to ensure I could do that to the best of my ability and keeping my employer appraised of my progress.

Frak,
" if my employer made it clear to me "

That's the part I'm questioning.

"it may be worth only considering British nannys with 10yrs driving exp"
careful doing that - know you would have best intentions but it might be discrimination

ahhhhhhhhhhhh - i dont want to discrimate - but surely asking for a british license as lots of driving is needed is ok?

strix - do you know silvers nanny?

and yes im the same as frakk, if i needed to do something for my job i would - ie i have done a first aid course on a sat and not been paid for it

i would also pratice if my skills were not as good as needed to be whether driving/cooking etc

Strix,

I know, it is really very sad.

Nanny is completely and utterly efficient and capable, other than when it comes to driving. She coped brilliantly when I was away last week - all I could have hoped for and more.

But the fact remains that for the last 6 weeks we have been employing her, I have had to spend the best part of 4 hours each day on the school runs, not ot mention extras like pickingup bits of shopping, since I am the one out in the car, and taking her and dd2 swimming etc.

I really do feel we have been more than fair on this. We stressed over and over that a confident driver was necessary - we even called her (by mutual agreement) when she was home and practising before she started to see whether she thought she would cope.

We agreed, and paid for, refresher lessons. With the best will in the world, refresher lessons should be maximum 3 hours, especially as she had just spent a month doing daily practice back home.

The misleading I am talking about is on this point, and this point alone. Nothing else has given me cause to think twice.

But she clearly said she was confident and competent as a driver, and, imo, she is neither.

Stillsqiffy - I gree to a certain extent that ones perception of driving skills is subjective, but honestly, she did not even want to get into my car to drive dd2 to swimming - about 1.5 miles away on nice, suburban roads.

We did clearly communicate to her that she could use the car at any time for practice (as said before, we have a second car, and both dh & I are happy to drive that whenever necessary, and often choose to do so anyway)

Strix, on the point of asking her to do extra driving practise at the weekend. If my employer had asked me to do this, in the situation as described at the beginning of the thread, then absolutely I would have done so.

I am unsure as to whether you are asking if the expectation to drive was a clearly communicated thing? It was, outlined form the start, along with a deadline for when she would have to be driving solo (we told her a month ahead when this would be). Driving lessons were paid for by us, but booked by her. there was never any mention of a fixed amount, we always said she should make sure she was comfortable and happy. lessons were always taken in her working hours, so in many ways were a double cost for us. until that weekend, we had not asked her to do any of ti at all in her own time.

I started this thread asking for advoce, and a number of nannies told me that it would not be an unreasonable ask.

Her reasons for not practising that weekend are not clear, and do not logically follow. She first said that when she came in on the Sunday afternoon she thought we needed the car, then implied it was unreasonable of us to ask her to drive at the weekend, then told me she had forgotten we asked. It is not really possible for all of these to be true, unfortunately - the middle one seems like the most likely reason, but 1 and 3 contradict each other (and the needing the car bit does not make sense as dh told her she could use it at any time over the weekend).

I would like to stress again that in every other way, she has been fab.

But we need someone who can drive, and who does not shy away from doing so, and that sadly, is not this nanny.

Blondes - my nanny used to be Strix's nanny.

I suspect there are more communication issues than have been revealed on this thread. DN (dear nanny) is very conciencious, sometimes a bit anxious/nervous, and the most dependable employee I have ever known. She does not really like to step out of her comfort zone. So I can believe that if she believed she had a choice she might choose to avoid driving. But, I cannot believe for one nanosecond that she blatantly disobeyed what was received as a clear instruction. And I absolutely don't think she lied or intentionally mislead you in any way. But, I can believe, that your expectation of comfortable driver and her perceptions of her driving skills are not aligned. I would call this a communication issue.

I came on here because I saw you and others accuse her of being a liar. I am so appalled at these accusations I thought the thread was approaching slander and I felt she should be defended.

Also, did you actually sit down with her and say you need to drive on your own by x date? She is used to having very clear boundaries because we both work full time and she always knew that when we were not home she was on duty and when we were home she was off duty. Sometimes working for a family where one parentis sharing the care can one big shade of grey on where the boundaries are.

I REALLY REALLY think there has been a lot of miscommunication here and not a nanny who has intentionally lead you astray.

I also wonder if you have followed a clearly outlined disciplinary procedure. Did you give here a clear verbal warning? A written warning? Or did you move straight to dismissal?

I'm sorry if I am sticking my nose in where it does not belong. But, I just feel so terrible about introducing her to someone thinking I was doing her favour by helping her find a job and then reading that the result is a thread on the internet about what a liar and incompetant driver she is. This cannot be an accurate picture of the DN I know and love.

Maybe this thread can be removed? It has, afterall, served it's purpose.

Strix, I relly do not want to get into this on a personal level.

As I outlined in my previous post, I do not believe it to be possible that nanny both thught we were using the car that afternoon, and also forgot that we had asked her to practice. This is not a "communication isue"

I take your point about having a parent at home, and possible blurred boundaries, but (other than the driving) we have not been operating shared care at all.

We hired a nanny because I needed some time to do stuff, and, apart from the lrge part of the day I have spent doing her job, that is what I have been doing.

There was no room for her to belive she had a choice in the driving - it was mentioned several times as being the most important of her duties, and clearly outlined in the contract. She clearly knew the date she would have to drive solo (apart form the expectation from moment of employment plus refresher lessons). She did say to me she had muddled it up, and thought it was the Thursday nt the Tuesday, but that was not going to make the difference she needed.

I would argue that no-one would describe her as a confident driver, not just me & dh.

I am sorry you feel the way you do, but I cannot help that. This isn't a thread about "what a liar" she is. I have stated several times that sh is wonderful and capable in all other areas than driving. But I do believe she misled us on her capabilities as a driver. We asked for and expected someone who would happily drive a car. At the first expectation that she would do so, following several hours of lessons, she baulked at the thought of driving into town.

She remains a lovely and competent nanny. We were very sad that it has come to this. But we cannot afford to employ someone and then carry out a large part of their job for them.

Oic why strix thought she was good

did she drive much for strix? Assuming school runs etc but then again I know the roads you mean and you have got to almost have nerves of steel in the rain/frost/ice/snow etc

my lanes this morning were like an ice rink :( - page62 be warned when you move lol

as she seems fab in all other aspects and confident in 24hr pp care - is there no way she would be confident in a few weeks - rather than you fire her and look for a new one which could be the same amount of time iyswim

does she feel confident enough? Does instructor?

she didn't drive for strix.

there is no way she would be confident enough in a few weeks, imo. and, as you say, the weather and road conditions are deteriorating, and I don't feel it would be right to expect someone to jump in to doing that run in foul wether/ice/slush etc.

The lanes are narrow - although a lot better if you go the eynsford/farningham route (which is the way I expcted her to go) - not so much nerves of steel required as confidence in both car and your ability to deal with the idiots who insist on driving down the lanes at 60mph . The bit that is concerning is how fast the weather turns - I remeber last year going to collect dd1, with a sky threatening snow - on the way into the school the first flake fell. 5 mins later when I was leaving with dd1, the lanes were absolutely treacherous. It is not for the fainthearted in that respect, I agree.

I cannot afford the time spent on the school runs for much longer - I am way behind on work stuff (is work form home stuff, but still important) and have things piling up all around me.

A shame didn't work out :( but as you say if the nanny can't fulfill her duties then needs to go

good luck with finding new nanny&def take out on a drive at 2nd interview or even first one - no point in wasting time

wouldn't bother me going to an interview and getting into a strange car&driving :)

I think I agree with whoever said this thread should be deleted as it has now served it's purpose.

Have you spoken to her yet? How did it go?

Please let this thread die out of respect for truly fab nanny.

I am actualy happy to read strix comments because once the nanny in question said that she needed refresher lessons and than took 10 of them, the employer shoud have realised that she woud not been suitabe for the job as driving in dificult roads would be necessary. Silverfrog stop saying that she is not capable or able to drive as she is, she is just not as experienced as you need specially in the types of roads you require. If you paid for 10 lessons on her working hours it is your own choice, you should have chosen an experient driver who does not need driving refreshing lessons and are not shy to show it. To be honest, as I said before you might find a excellent driver who will be not a perfect nanny as no one is perfect ot tick all the boxes, and personally I think that a nannys job is to be a wonderful role model for your children and make sure they are safe, well fed and happy, NOT TO drive them around on trick roads and traffic or whatever but I hope you find the right person.

:( I hope this gets deleted. What an awful thing to portray a lovely nanny in such a negative light. There are always 2 sides to every story.
A shot in the dark but she may have been uncomfortable asking for your car to drive on the weekend in case you needed it (so said she thought you needed it), perhaps the "I forgot you asked me to practice" was just quick defense, a way out of saying "I was too shy/embarrassed to ask you for your car" (it's a BIG thing to ask to take someone's car especially from a family on a weekend - common sense tells you not to do it). It is unreasonable for you to ask her to work on a weekend. If she is so lovely and nice, it seems odd that she'd blatantly disobey your instructions.

I don't believe she misled you. But I do believe she didn't realise how much more practice she would need in order to have confidence needed to do the driving you require. She was probably also incredibly nervous with you in the car.

I hope she is able to find a good job for a new family, so you can get a new nanny who can do the driving.

BTW I know I have come across as a completely incompetent driver when in the car with someone who make me nervous. I'm actually a great driver and very safely drive my own 2 year old daily.

Hi, from reading this thread from beginning to end over the days it has been running, I don't think this nanny has been portrayed in a bad light at all, I think silver has been very honest in saying that she copes very well with the children, and that she is very capable aside from her driving skills.

However, if a large part of her job is driving and she is not able to do so, then it obvious that she cannot stay. I'm sure she will be perfect for another family, but she obviously underestimated the driving involved (even though it was made clear), so the thread doesn't come across as though she is some awful liar, just that she is not suitable for this particular family.

I think the thread has been quite fair, if I were looking for a non-driving nanny then I would employ her, I haven't been given the impression that she is a bad person.

Oh good grief. Someone above is testing my ability to bite my tongue. There is more to this story than has been typed on this thread.

And let's all keep in mind that everything written on this thread is silverfrog's own interpretation of nanny's driving confidence, which may or may not be the same as nanny's own view.

So, I do wonder if nanny is really so lacking in confidence or if the expectations and judgements on her driving are unrealistically harsh.

And, on that note, I best go back to keeping schtum.

Oh don't keep schtum, Strix!

"There is more to this story than has been typed on this thread" has got my interest.

Dish the dirt, please!

In the interest of fairness, of course

I think there is more to this story too and now I am curious..
Even the driver instructor said that she was competent so it appears to me that the driving issue was not THE issue after all...

So why didnt you pay for her to have advanced driving lessons then? And you should insist she goes the longer way around.