Nanny at funeral... is this holiday?

[bonitagbchica]

Our nanny's great grandmother has passed away this week and the funeral will be held on Monday, which is a day we really need her to be here... so it's cost us £30 for afterschool for both kids...
I don't want to be totally heartless here, but should I mark this day as holiday? We are struggling as it is to fund her, and the extra cost of afterschool is something we only factored in during her holidays, which we agreed to get 4 weeks notice for.

Comments? Experiences? Anything appreciated.

A. x

I can't judge the relevance of her relationships. But by giving full pay for a week for a close relation and assuming that her mother/father/sister is closer than great gran, I think I have gone some way to addressing it.

Not necessarily considerably lower pay. I had virtually nothing left after paying my nanny, but it enabled me to stay on the career ladder. I wouldn't have achieved what I have if I had taken time out to be a SAHM.

And if she had been brought up by her gran/great gran, and I was aware of this before she popped her clogs, then the week on full pay would apply.

And of those of you who think we are a heartless bunch, how many of you employ nannies? The whole point of employing a nanny, for me, was to have pretty much bomb proof childcare when they were little. I don't think I'd have lasted five minutes if I had said "oooh, NATO bombing Serbia? Sorry, fraid I can't come in today. My nanny's gone to her great granny's funeral."

I think being flexible and compassionate are the key things in this situation.
I worked for a v. large company, where the HR policy was 'close relations' funerals could be given as compassionate leave. However, individual managers had the authority to give a day of special leave if they felt it was warranted. If they had a good relationship with their staff, trusted them not to abuse privileges and valued their contribution to the team, then they would usually give their staff special leave.

The managers were aware of the potentially unquantifiable consequences of treating their staff in an inflexible way, so they decided which course of action to take.

I absolutely agree with you MrsS (that's much easier) about having bomb-proof arrangements - literally in your case.

My job was always demanding, (not quite as much as yours, though, by the sounds of it), which meant that nanny absence was always very, very difficult to deal with.

Which meant that I bent over backwards to make my nanny's daily life really easy/hugely desirable, such that she worked her backside off for me.

I wouldn't have quibbled about how close a relative was, I would have allowed her compassionate leave, for example

I employed nannies for 16 years. We only had two nannies in all that time. Lots of people said to me 'aren't you lucky!" Luck had nothing to do with it. We treated both of our nannies bloody well - and in return, they treated us bloody well too. Mutual respect.

Two issues here really.

1. You're obviously quite annoyed with your nanny for the pay and conditions that you negotiated together. You decided on these in order to be flexible, but death and funerals are things that no-one can decide on or be flexible about. If you are a student, how about using more of the nanny's hours by having her work a day at the weekend or longer hours before/after school so that you have more time to study? (All the students I know find that there is a pretty limitless demand on time) Or think about renegotiating the contract? If you brought it down to something more realistic then you would feel a lot less resentment towards her. Yes it must be annoying to see you scarce money going on hours you don't need, but it's not her fault. You agreed to this together and it's up to you to change it.

2. Funeral. FWIW (not a nanny) I was encouraged to take time off for a funeral (grandparent), although weirdly like NannyNick I initially didn't want to go. My boss's position was that I would regret it later. I'm sure what she was thinking was that it wouldn't be good for her or me if I started to be upset with my work for keeping me away from the funeral. Employers vary hugely, but even though I hated my old job I always thought much more highly of my boss for her flexible attitude to these things.

Great grand mother - compassionate leave. her mother's grand mother - close. Think about it, as you get older you realise how close these relatives are. They are what made you.

Put yourself in her shoes, it is her mum's grandma, so the nanny needs to be with her mum who remembers those lovely times with her, like we hope our kids do.

As it's been pointed out a great grandmother doesn't usually count as a 'close relative' and wouldn't normally qualify for compassionate leave.

but

A nanny/family relationship is, or at least, should be, different from the relationship between an employer and a faceless big company. If your great grandmother died and you asked your nanny to cover a few hours for you because you didnt want to take the kids to the funeral, do you think she'd charge? I wouldn't charge my family overtime if they were at a funeral or were sick or something, I'd do it as a favour. If it was the other way around they'd do the same for me.

MrsS it seems a big jump from a week full pay for a sibling/parent and bugger all for a slightly more distant relative. Surely you could spare an afternoon for a funeral on compassionate leave? For £30? It's not as though the OP can't go to work that day, it's just a one off extra fee for an after-school club or whatever.

When I was in my first job, working for a maunfacturing company which had set holiday times, 2 weeks in June, one week in august, and one at Christmas, which we had to take, no questioning. We had one 'flexi day' for a family event, or a long weekend. I have never forgotten or forgiven, my boss making me take my flexi day for my grandads funeral, on the basis that he wasn't a close relative!

Mrs S I agree with you. The nanny has the same rights as the op and the rest of us. That's it. If anyone decides to be super nice about it, well that's being super nice and recognised as such -- not heartless if you don't.

I think by definition if someone's your direct ancestor/descendant then it should count as close family. What if she was older and it was her great grandchild? Would people still be saying not close enough?

Sorry but you've got to draw the line somewhere. This is Princess Di territory.

Excuse -- I don't mean the ggm was like princess di to the nanny. I mean that this overweaning bending at the knee to grief.

Maybe she did bring her up, who knows. But she probably didn't.

I didn't want to go to my granddad's funeral as I've said. But if I had and my boss had told me to take it as holiday/be unpaid (i.e. no money for rent) I would have had the company down as even bigger fuckers than I thought. And that's not something most people want their nannies thinking of them surely.

Also the argument of why should the nanny get more than EVERYBODY ELSE? only works if all employers are the same, which they obviously aren't. Mine had a sliding scale of compassionate leave from IIRC one day for a grandparent/niece/nephew etc to up to a week for a parent and two weeks for a partner or DC.

Sure -- but it shouldn't be assumed op is heartless if she doesn't. Commpassionate leave for a ggm shouldn't be expected but is generous to offer.

Given op's financial situation, I think she's right to raise it.

Elephants, I agree with you about EVERYBODY ELSE...

There does seem to be a little bit of 'well my employer pisses on me, so everybody else should get pissed on too'. Two wrongs don't make a right .

Mrs S - you say you would give your nanny a week off if, say, her mother died; but what would happen if NATO bombed Serbia during that week? That's the problem with having kids; pesky little beggars need looking after if the help dares to get sick or suffers a bereavement.

OP - give your nanny the day off as compassionate leave.

I think your nanny should be able to attend the funeral without being made to feel it's an inconvenience. I'd sit her down with the contract, point out what it says and pause. If she volunteers to take it as paid holiday immediately then that's all well and good. If her lip wobbles I'd have a couple of options such as negotiating the replacement that day with other hours or her taking it on half pay.

This isn't a good time to review your contract but I think you need to at some point. It doesn't sound like you're happy with it.

Oh and I have entitlement to SSP only in my contract unless I get I'll from the children. Then it's pull pay. In practice I've had full pay for tge 7 days I've ever had sick.

If my grandmother died my niece would want to go to her funeral. It would be unthinkable for her not to be there and I would take a very dim view of an employer who made her take the day as holiday.

I've never worked anywhere where I would be expected to take it as holiday either

Well I'm bloody glad I don't work for any of you. And so nice that you all know chapter and verse about people's families. If any of you were lucky enough to have known your great grandmother would you seriously have considered them a distant relative?? I find that stunning. But good for you to be so calculated about it, must make your lives easier to be able to compartmentalise people so neatly. All for the sake of £30. Nice.

That isn't about her having it good (your 21:22:40 post) that is the contract you decided to give her. Don't be resentful now about it. It might be worth considering if this is the childcare you want as you come across as really resentful.

Hey rockbird not everyone has said that. If you worked for me you would've got compassionate leave...we are a small company and I would have given anyone in my office the same. And my childminder.

Wrt 'bomb proof childcare' surely the point being discussed here is whether to pay, not whether to give the time off? So that argument is not actually relevant is it? After all, in the example given, Serbia is still going to get bombed whether your nanny takes the time off as holiday, unpaid, or compassionate leave.

I am quite frankly saddened that the OP has the temerity to even ask this heartless question. What has happened to compassion? It is not for us to determine how close this person was to their great grandmother.

In my husbands company, they allow staff compassionate leave for any funeral and that policy produces a lot of goodwill in return from the staff.

I think those people saying Great Grandparent is not a close relative and just being mean. This lady could have been like a mum to the nanny, they could have been extremely close. My children lost a great grandparent a few years ago and it was just as devastating as if their Grandparent had died.

Sorry ginhag, it was easier to make sweeping generalisations than to go through and pick out specific protesters . Thankfully there are a few people who have replied saying they would try to find a more sensitive approach rather than consult the family line and decide that you can't possibly be as close to your ggmother as you can to your gmother etc.