Mid wife shrieking in horror at extent of open epistiotomy wound. All stitches undone, severe infection, any natural remedies anyone?

[Dhosonia]

1st time poster - Before starting i just want to say that i have tried to read every related post on the topic on mumsnet and elsehwere as i dont want to waste ppls time and effort but cant seem to find the answers that will help my wife anywhere. She is not posting herself as i am trying to burden the pain for her and think that the less she knows the better frame of mind she will be in and therefore cant get caught up in a cycle of negative pessamstic thinking. This was our first son - pessary/pitocin drip/epidural/epistiotomy/forceps. Was a wonderful pregancny but traumatic birth (28 hr labour) I feel very guilty and im blaiming myself for the mess wifes in now, as i was so wound up about the forceps scar after telling the registrar that we didnt want it (baby was in correct position, all stats ok for mother and baby) that i started having a go at her whilst the registrar was still stitching after birth saying that we didnt want forceps - look at his scar etc as she only let her push for 40 mins and cited maternal exhaustion as reason for forceps etc. so ive concluded she did a terrible job in stitching after i upset the registrar with my outburst. The room was also like a circus, 4 mw's 1 reg,1 nurse, 1 ped.

All her stitches have come undone and there is a horrible gaping open wound with pus and all sorts of gunk seeping out intertwined with whats left of her stiches. Birth on 27June back in hptal on 1st july. IV antibiotics - they cant restitch - offered possible repairin 4 - 6 mths. Whilst in hpital any mw's that checked reacted with horror when checking her wound. Back home today 6 july. Mw reacted with horror again at seeing it, cut is right from top of vagina to the rectum.

Its very severe and my wife is in huge amounts of pain. When showering to keep it clean should the water go inside the wound? or just softly outside. How long should she sit on the bidet - 1 min - 5 mins? Can i put manuka honey on it now or will it hurt to much/sting/cause bad reaction/make it worse. Does it go inside or just outside. The odour is going but its still full of white and black thimgs inside and is pinkish. Can i spray collodial silver on it? How long is healing time.

Thanks you for any replies we are totaly lost on this and seeing how much pain she is in is breaking my heart. Also have switched to combination feedimg as we dont want antibiotics getting through to son - is this a good idea?

This takes me back in time 19 years! Without going into detail, the community midwifery sister who booked me in for my next birth (20 months on) said 'Oh yes, your bottom was a filthy mess'. You have had loads of advice on the bottom, can I second the avoiding constipation as I felt sorting that was the start of healing. If your consultant or your wife think there is pain from elsewhere, can I put in a word for a massage. I have had massages recently for referred pain, and I have found that helpful - some physios have a sports massage person, they find all kindsof bumpy knotty things. I reckon it was 4 months before I could sit down without wincing, but i got there. So will Sonia.

Dhosonia, does the hospital have a neurologist or can they refer you to one that deals with childbirth trauma? I had a forceps delivery and got pudendal nerve pain from the delivery. The pain was in the gential area and buttocks and down legs. Nerve pain is like a burning pain but difficult to explain. Its not rare but it is infrequent and there's an increased risk from forceps. It is possible that the consultant you met has not come across it in his career. If your wife has this as well she will need proper nerve pain drugs, they work very well. The pain is normally gone before a year passes. The quicker the pain is managed the quicker it will go. I'm not mentioning this to add to you and your wife's worries but perhaps to help by ruling it out. I hope you can take the good and leave the bad bits of the wonderful internet behind.

A friend of mine was left with a poorly done episistomy. She was going to be left like that but had it restitched by a private consultant and she says she is the same as before the baby.

Might be worth seeing Donald Gibb, he has a Harley Street practice but also works in the Portland Hospital in London. Good luck.

Poor Sonia - I hope she feels better soon x

hello

firstly sorry for dodgy spacebar again...

to anyone who posted on this thread before and has been through this, i was wondering if you could describe the healing process? ihad surgery again 2 weeksago, andthe wound was healing really well after that.in fact now it has nearly closed up. i had 2 lovely blissful pain free weeks and started to get my life back.i even was able to get out and buy myselfsome new shoes!

but since sunday the pain has returned.i know two things thatchanged that may have caused this,my increase in activity plus i have beengetting constipated, which i haven't had since birth but which i knowis an aggravating factor.

i just dont know what todo to manage the pain and i'm absolutely gutted that the pain has come back, as i thought i was on thepath to recovery. i also am so confused as the wound isbasically healed fromwhati can see. any advice from experienced people would be gratefully received.

BUMP

Bumping for you, hope you're feeling better x

Monkeytoo thank you so much i guess no one else is following this anymore...

anyway since i last wrote i went to see the GP and its suspected nerve pain now. it fluctuates and ive now mentally accepted that it's come back which is making it easier to manage.

i did post a separate thread on nerve pain after the lack of response to this thread, another mumsnetter wrote to me on that but I don't think she went through this to the extent that I have. one thing she said though, was that the best way to sort all my issues out is to have another baby! the gynae dr said the same thing, apparently the pressure on the perineum through childbirth will help to knock it all back into place

Hi muslimah28, I wonder if we are suffering to the same extent as me when you mention that you were able to go and buy shoes..no one really understands how much my nerve damage has effected my life. I was warned that any surgery would make my nerve pain flare up but I have prolapsed everything possible and dearly want to feel normal again. It is possible that this is the case with you now with the surgery.

Hi changed2 sorry to hear you've been suffering so much. i wouldn't want to comment on how my pain compares to yours, i just know it was awful, then i had some relief (when i got the shoes ) and then it was awful again, and now it's moderate. it comes and goes and i can manage it with pain killers and rest. i still don't have my life back and i would not say by any measure i feel normal again. but it does feel like thank God, i'm on a path that will, in many months time, lead to that point.

having to post at 6.am because dw has been crying all night due to reliving birth trauma, and moreover the never ending pain keeping her up, specifically vaginal pain not just on the granulated tissue but on her vaginal wall/lips.... the question that is worrying her the most is why does she still have a discharge almost 3 months later??? is this somewhat normal in normal pregnancy let alone this situation?

Its a yellow/greeny colour and she has to change pads up to 6 times a day....

im sorry that i am absolutely pathetic on this thing in posting updates as real life takes over and if she has a few good days i think everythings going to be okay, current situation is that we have seen 3 specialists, very high up senior consultants, one took one look and said stick with the nhs as he seemed that it was almost too much for him and just did not want to get involved, one other wants to cut and restitch the other who we have been with from the start on the nhs wants to wait another month before he operates as he wants it to heal more??? whilst in the meantime the tissue is starting to go inwards...

again main point of this post - discharge - to the extent of changing pads 6 times a day - normal???

Thx, and muslimah hope u r better briefly read your other post will write more later

just a quick reply 4 now while feeding DS- yes the discharge is from the wound i had that 4 a long time, its stopped since wound healed externally, but i still spot most days. it was yellow/orange 4 me no green though.

it was described to me as the wound 'weeping'. i presume as you are still seeing drs they've swabbed to be sure of no infection but otherwise like i say the discharge is unpleasant but normal.

Dhosonia - Is the area warm and tender to the touch? I don't think constant excruciating pain three months after the birth is normal and would worry about infection. She needs a blood test to see if there is an infection raging inside the now-closed wound.

hiya no infections been checked regularly, its the over granultion of the tissue/mangled nerves/refractory pain issue, have to basically decide which surgeon to go with but have made an appointment with yet another specialist (mr donald gibb as suggested above)in london for a final verdict, that will then be 4 opinions, she doesnt know whether to stick with the original nhs consultant who has seen it from the outset but thing with him is that he has never understood the pain element and just says "i dont know why" and makes no attempt to explain anything and treats her like a dumb kid, but he does have a very nice bedside manner and has been v. honest saying that wounds to this extent happen once twice a year, or change to a female gynae who was very nice friendly etc and prob understands the workings of female things better but has not seen the wound from the outset just recently once its closed and overgranulated.... d gibb is to make sure what the others propose is correct/further advice and any other treatment options - only have one chance to get this right first time.

mmiah was yours an epistiotomy wound or c section wound - if epistiotomy did they not offer to cut and restitch - why did they go down the numerous cauterisations route? i hope you are feeling much better now and your final op fixes everything, esp the unexplained pain!

On a baby issue he has come out with eczema after first 5 in 1 jab at 8 weeks, the eczema surfaced about one week after the jab - very concerned about giving him any more jabs dont want to opt out of the scheme can anyone advice on what they did with their kids, have read mountains of evidence on the linkage between jabs and eczema/asthma/behaviour changes i.e. autoimmune disorders but was really hoping he would not have had any reaction to the jab am sure if he has another dose so soon (3 mth) it will flare up again - he had no issues at all with skin etc prior to jab and we are loosing sleep fretting over the little man and as its new to us are almost in tears when we see his red chapped bumpy skin! any advice on this?

hi there just come on just now, so this is a very quick response, but just to reassure you (or myself!) I don't spend all day on MN- i have a little 4 month old to look after so even i wanted to i couldn't!!

just to clarify firstly that i was never saying that 3 months of pain is normal. i've been there and its NOT normal. i was only commenting on the amount of discharge/weeping, which i had too and was not infected (the greenish colour you mention is odd though, but you say you're sure there's no infection).

anyway, in terms of my situation,it was an episiotomy wound but the problems in healing that me and your DW have could happen in a c section wound hence my other post being directed to anyone with either.

for me, the numerous cauterisations were frustrating, BUT they did sort it out and i'm glad i didn't have to have a restitch. my understanding is firstly every wound is different, but secondly that they do if they can try to avoid restitching and try to get the wound healed.

i think donald gibb might be your best bet, and if he's an expert then i wouldn't go get any other opinions after that- i think you can get too many opinions and medicine is an art not a science after all.

but FWIW, after the consultant first cauterised the wound he said i would feel relief from THAT NIGHT. i didn't believe him. but it was true. i really did. the pain just started to dissipate. so hold on to the fact that when you get proper treatment hopefully the pain will start to go.

now i get pain on and off daily but its nowhere near the excrutiating stage you're at now, i manage it with rest and painkillers. so i'm not 100% but am just so grateful i can live some sort of life now.

oh and on your vaccination question, you may get a better response if you post it on another forum? i'm not sure which but there are so many on mumsnet and it doesn't seem relevant here so may get less of a response.

Greenish discharge and constant excruciating pain still sounds like infection, sorry. The only way to be sure is a blood test. I was told "no infection" for weeks, then started on antibiotics and felt better within three days.

I've had overgranulation and mangled nerves. That is pain upon touch, not constant torture that makes you cry every day

Just wondering if anyone has read this.........

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1321674/Forceps-left-boy-brain-damaged-His-case-far-unique-So-ARE-used.html

Cut and paste if link doesnt work...

My fear of forceps was not unfounded and with my son when i saw blood on his head from the forceps i couldnt contain my anger and had a go at the registrar - similarily we did not consent to the procedure - thank the heavens above my son is ok and i just feel so angry at what this couple have gone through for them and feel so much for the young lad who would otherwise have been healthy....

Thx blbl we saw doc in london he cauterised it twice and finally after 4 months the pain is a hell of a lot better!

Have apt with local surgeon to see if more chemical cauterisng is possible - funnily they dont want to do that and just want to "refashion the perenium" cutting/operating etc

mmiah if ur reading hope ur better dw gives regards

Dhosonia - just seen this, I had a bad 3rd degree tear in May. In August I was restitched by Miss Michelle Fynes at Parkside private hospital in Wimbledon, but she is also Lead Director of St George's Hospital. I couldnt recommend her enough.

hi

i read the article with interest, this is such a sad story. there was another sad story in the daily mail about forceps about a month ago. there was a thread about it, can't find it right now, and lots of people basically made the valid point that forceps themselves are not bad, and in fact have saved lives. when they were invented circa a couple of centuries ago, maternal and neonatal mortality drastically dropped.

i agree in the wrong hands they're dangerous, as this article points out. but it does sound as though this doctor was plain incompetent, she tried the ventouse far too many times, and was pulling on the baby far too much, she could have just used her common sense to know that was wrong. i think whatever implement she had in her hands she would have caused problems.

interesting the point about foreign doctors being better trained in them, as my obstetrician was iragi. and fortunately the registrar who examined me first had the good sense to know she couldn't do it in my case so she called the consultant.

i wouldn't be against forceps for any subsequent birth, my greatest fear is not that but it's another episiotomy. i know the too often go hand in hand, but epistiomies can be undertaken for other interventions too which makes this more likely than a forceps delivery.

anyway, i'm so glad your DW is feeling better, and i just hope she goes from strength to strength. i also hope she does not get put off more DCs (and nor you either) as the article indicates happens for many mothers with forceps deliveries. as next time could be completely different.

that sound like my 1st birth! 37+ hour labour...1 1/2 hours pushin...2nd degree cut n baby vacuumd out.... stictchs came out n got all infected,had to heal without stictchs and took 2 types of antibiotics 3x a day for a month.....i was never offrd a fix up job tho.....that was nearly 18months ago and ive popd out another dd since then

tbh unless the vagina ordeal gave me pain durin sex im leavin it alone....my vagina does its job with no complants from the otha half...yea to me it dosnt look like a very inviting vagina ,but its just cosmetic and no 1 has 2 c it. im not gunna put my vagina in any more pain just because it dosnt look like its origanl self.
havin really salty baths and sprayin antiseptic on tissue after ive used the bathroom did wonders

that sound like my 1st birth! 37+ hour labour...1 1/2 hours pushin...2nd degree cut n baby vacuumd out.... stictchs came out n got all infected,had to heal without stictchs and took 2 types of antibiotics 3x a day for a month.....i was never offrd a fix up job tho.....that was nearly 18months ago and ive popd out another dd since then

tbh unless the vagina ordeal gave me pain durin sex im leavin it alone....my vagina does its job with no complants from the otha half...yea to me it dosnt look like a very inviting vagina ,but its just cosmetic and no 1 has 2 c it. im not gunna put my vagina in any more pain just because it dosnt look like its origanl self.
havin really salty baths and sprayin antiseptic on tissue after ive used the bathroom did wonders

oh yea was advised to air the wound...lots, if its stuck sweatin on pads all day it wont help....i used to put a towl under me at night n sleep bottom less. when going for a wee pour detol warm water on it....always pat well dry, maby take some co-codamol for the pain....i had to sit on a pillow in the car for ages.......if u have ne questions or need some advice inbox me