Mid wife shrieking in horror at extent of open epistiotomy wound. All stitches undone, severe infection, any natural remedies anyone?

[Dhosonia]

1st time poster - Before starting i just want to say that i have tried to read every related post on the topic on mumsnet and elsehwere as i dont want to waste ppls time and effort but cant seem to find the answers that will help my wife anywhere. She is not posting herself as i am trying to burden the pain for her and think that the less she knows the better frame of mind she will be in and therefore cant get caught up in a cycle of negative pessamstic thinking. This was our first son - pessary/pitocin drip/epidural/epistiotomy/forceps. Was a wonderful pregancny but traumatic birth (28 hr labour) I feel very guilty and im blaiming myself for the mess wifes in now, as i was so wound up about the forceps scar after telling the registrar that we didnt want it (baby was in correct position, all stats ok for mother and baby) that i started having a go at her whilst the registrar was still stitching after birth saying that we didnt want forceps - look at his scar etc as she only let her push for 40 mins and cited maternal exhaustion as reason for forceps etc. so ive concluded she did a terrible job in stitching after i upset the registrar with my outburst. The room was also like a circus, 4 mw's 1 reg,1 nurse, 1 ped.

All her stitches have come undone and there is a horrible gaping open wound with pus and all sorts of gunk seeping out intertwined with whats left of her stiches. Birth on 27June back in hptal on 1st july. IV antibiotics - they cant restitch - offered possible repairin 4 - 6 mths. Whilst in hpital any mw's that checked reacted with horror when checking her wound. Back home today 6 july. Mw reacted with horror again at seeing it, cut is right from top of vagina to the rectum.

Its very severe and my wife is in huge amounts of pain. When showering to keep it clean should the water go inside the wound? or just softly outside. How long should she sit on the bidet - 1 min - 5 mins? Can i put manuka honey on it now or will it hurt to much/sting/cause bad reaction/make it worse. Does it go inside or just outside. The odour is going but its still full of white and black thimgs inside and is pinkish. Can i spray collodial silver on it? How long is healing time.

Thanks you for any replies we are totaly lost on this and seeing how much pain she is in is breaking my heart. Also have switched to combination feedimg as we dont want antibiotics getting through to son - is this a good idea?

Hiya i have to examine her bits and keep an eye on the progress as there is no one else doing it - the midwife that saw the original wound and pus is on holiday plus as they are one of four its a lottery if she will come call or one of the others - the first question i have been asked by all mw's /consultants/anyone examing is directed at me - "is it better than before" , in hospital one of my gripes was that i did not want her to be discharged until someone other than a mw checked her wound (consultant) and preferabbly the same doc who checked when admitted, which was not achievable, thats how pathetic they are, the nurse today had to ring 3 different other nurses until she found one whom had a bit of experience - she had never come across this before. Im a big believer in not giving your life to the hands of "professionals" and trying to find out as much as you can about your illness/injury so you can assist in the care, a lot of ppl still think docs are gods, but they arent....the key principle is working with them, its not a totilatarian regime unless ofcourse its a life death situation - im not saying im contradicting everything the docs say etc, quite to the contrary - doing everything they say but asking lots of questions along the way - if anything goes wrong ppl blame the doctor and never take any resposnibilty themselves - e.g - just a basic check to see if the doc has experience with this/how many claims they have had against them/disputes settled out of court - you would be gob smacked if you saw the figures - anyhooo, she wants me to see and asks too much half the time i refuse and say well i only saw it 4 hrs ago its ok etc wife is 25 and knows about me posting for advice, and in the evening she will read over some resposnses etc im a lawyer in my day job so am used to research etc and have a few years of clinical negligence experience (thats when you really find out how bad hospitals/consultants are)so pls dnt fret i would never ever do anything to disrepect her or conflict with her dignity

OP - have you apologised to your wife for being a total twunt at the birth of your baby? Sounds like you were highly critical of your wife and neglected her when she was at her most vulnerable.

If you were my DH I'd ask you to keep away from further examining my bits and leave it to the professionals. I'd also ask CMW to keep an eye on me to watch out for signs of PND.

Back off, calm down, be humble and appreciate your wife and child - don't keep sticking your head between her legs every five minutes to see if there is a clinical negligence claim to get your teeth into...

Now go and do the ironing and cook and meal. And a big bunch of flowers wouldn't go amiss...

Oh right so as clinical negligence lawyer, you'll understand the importance of people asking for advice rather than going ahead regardless then.

No drs are'nt gods. Ans as nurses we do not know everything. The NHS is imperfect. But you have to step back a bit. Or pay privately and see what a mess you get into then.

if you are like your posts are coming across you sound like a nightmare relative. This is not helping your wife.

"the first question i have been asked by all mw's /consultants/anyone examing is directed at me - "is it better than before"

Could your wife not answer that question? I'd have thought she'd be in the perfect position to judge tbh.

Having had two really nasty tears during the birth of my DD, inside, front and back, inc 3rd degree, as well as minor post-stitching infection, I hope she's reading and I would say please do believe that the pain will ease off and you will feel like normal normal again in due course. For my part, I could not believe how much pain I was in and for how long it lasted. I thought it was the end for my bits.

Four weeks after giving birth I could still hardly walk. Eight weeks later it was getting better and by 12 weeks, things were noticeably better, although I still had low-level 'stretching' pain every day.

If I had known that it would definitely get better I would have felt more able to cope. As it is, at 18 weeks, things feel fine and I have even started an exercise class!

Please do believe that you will heal up in time and you will be yourself again. It is an awfully private horror to go through (less so in your case it seems!).

Do keep up with the pelvic floor exercises - these are essential.

Things that helped me:

• at least two showers per day with the warm water running over my bits for at least 10 minutes
• no lotions, soaps, oils or godonlyknows what else
• not looking at it and obsessing
• lying on my side, including breast feeding
• lying with my legs open and no knickers on after showering - sounds a bit odd, but it lets the air get in and helps healing (just make sure you don't have nosy neighbours)

The thing I wish I had done: stayed in bed, let my husband arrange everything and solely focussed on me and the new baby.

PS Dhosonia: I am also a lawyer with Clin Neg experience (albeit a long time ago).

Like the medical consultants, you will only have seen the very worst of the worst cases, so you need to put your professional experience to one side and remember that it is not indicative of the vast majority of people's experiences, nor is it useful as a base for how to behave with medical professionals.

Thanks nellie - asked nurse what the antibacterial dressing was for - she just said to make sure poo and wee dont touch the area - ill try and find out the name of the dressing - hope its the one you mentioned - and if she has to phone for advice its not encouraging that the actual person dealing with her doesnt really know what to do - which is never good - i want the best - second hand advice over a telephone isnt good enough in regards to a PRACTICAL application/task - its like someone telling somehow how to drive over the phone - i would never try to give advice on a legal topic that i didnt know about and risk messing up - esp if i had never come across that area of law before - i would recommend someone else in my office etc - the same should be done here - or at least a more senior nurse should actually check to see that the plaster is on correct etc as she was clearly guessing but you have at least given me somthing to think about in realtion to what the dressing might be - i pick up the script for it tmw so will know for def - thanks again

orm - she cant answer the question as she hasnt see the wound and its not a good idea for her to see it, thanks amesbs7 but i reiterate i am not interefering at all in anyway just asking questions other than when i saw the forceps lacerations and scars i havent said so much as a peekaboo to any of the docs - one mw said i am being to quiet and need to kick up a fuss with the hpital so that she is looked after and eye kept on - the mw didnt know what they had done in hpital as no one had elaborated on her notes - they didnt even write down that ds had had the heel prick test for screening and mw was about to do it again until wife told her it had been done, mw then phoned hpital to confirm and then told them off for not writing it down - but i am trying to distance myself as much as possible professionaly - ive cooked every meal etc changed nappies and will happily continue to do so until the end of time if need be no lol ok maybe a little lol

to ames bs7 again - sorry forgot to ask were you giving a dresssing to put on it or did you just leave the wound open? hospital is saying leave it open - mw and nurse are saying put a dressing on - its confusing!

the reason i ask is hpital wanted all infection to clear out first - which means all tissue turing pick - but there is still lots of white puss oozing out but black/green mucus has gone - i also get to see it when i dry her with a hair dryer or when assiting in clean her after she pee's and poo's - with the dressing on now infection is still in???

i have to do the school run now but will come back anbd post about infection later, having been given a pretty rough ride myself, major cock ups by docs and MRSA infection after having ds2

OMG are you saying you dry her vagina with a HAIRDRYER?! One air bubble goes up there, it will get in her blood stream and she'll have a heart attack.
I've read this with my mouth agape. You're not a doctor. Leave your wife ALONE.

thx moss chops lk fwd to post

Air drying, as AmesBS7 mentioned is usually best for wounds.

I think you need to leave your wife alone for about 10 minutes - this all sounds like it's been invasive enough for her.

Did you buy the bunch of flowers yet? Seriously I know you said she knows you're posting for advice but you've put some pretty graphic descriptions on here, perhaps she won't be so delightd when she reads them

And for Goodness sake stop looking for household items to 'help the healing with'

Poor woman, give her a chance to heal and rest and let her talk to her health professionals in private a bit. Best thing for her will be to feel a bit empowered right now and I promice you're unlikely to achieve that this way.

Good luck, congratulations on your son and I hope your wife feels better soon

Ok you can read my lengthy childbirth nightmare another time on the childbirth threads but in brief I had an EMCS, followed by a complete wound dehiscence which resulted in me holding my own bowel, followed by further surgery followed by MRSA wound infection.

So although not a vaginal injury, i was pretty rough to say the least.

Can I offer the following advice:

Get a wound swab done asap, they didnt do mine until the scar opened (again) and was spewing puss! Then lied about the results and I found out by accident. Only when you get results from the wound swab will you know what the infection is and how it needs to be treated. Antibiotics are useless in some situations.

Do not listen to the MW about looking after the wound, luckily Im a nurse and was able to take care of my own, had I done what the midwives told me it would still be infected now. Your local hospital will have wound team or a wound specilaist, ask if they can see your wife, or ask your GP for a referral. Your wife may need something like Inadine or Aquacell which will fight infection, then a dry dressing over the top. Although I have no experience of dressing vaginal tears so not sure how practical that is.

I imagine you know that reg's work for consultants so those 4 opinions may ultimately be ONE opinion. If you can afford it I would see someone private. My gynaecologist at Bupa was amazing as he wasnt singing the NHS tune. It was only through him I found out the truth.

I would steer clear of natural remedies for now. I was givem 4 course of antibiotics, followed by some anti virals and an anti fungal cream to fight infection. When it was improving I used Manuka Honey (which can be just as beneficial orally so she could take it like that now), also took garlic and vit c.

My dh was amazing when all this was going on, but can I say that it was practical and emotional support. Dont think you can 'fix' things like men like to do. My dh would put my underwear on for me, look at things I couldnt and supported my decision to give up bf.
Just support your wife whatever she decides to do, do not presure her to do anything and always remmeber to not look shocked

HTH

"Air drying, as AmesBS7 mentioned is usually best for wounds."

Americans aren't very good at pronouncing their aitches - think 'erbs.
Who'd have thought that a simple grammatical error could have such potentially devestating consequences?

The antibacterial(?)(dont know name so not sure whats in dressing) dressing will be helping to fight the infection. It wont be blocking it in.

What the hospital and what the community say about chronic wounds is usually different. The community has more experience of dealing with wounds healing by secondary intention so I would be inclined to go with what community nurses say.

Dont blow dry the area. You run the risk of introducing bacteria or disturbing delicate healing skin. just pat it dry gently.

It really isn't a problem that your dn had to ring up for advice. This happens all the time and there is specific way of describing wounds so that an accurate picture is obtained. Unfortunately it is not always possible for someone who has seen this before to visit. Frequently the referrals are not accurate. I have lost count of the amount of seemingly simple referrals i have had, only to walk into something quite different. You may find someone else comes along next time to review the wound.

you do sound pretty angry about the way things have turned out? Perhaps you could arrange to talk to the consultant at some point about what went on during the birth?

The community nurses are not working under direction of the hospital or the GP. They work alongside. Please try to have some faith in them.

Arnica will help speed up the healing process I believe.

It will heal, faster than you both think right now. That MW is obviously inexperienced and possibly feeling guilty - they are supposed to prevent such injuries.

Do not blame each other, every woman know that an 8-lber flying out of there is going to hurt a bit and cause damage, however I promise you it is only temporary and in a few months you'll both be back to normal.

You are a very good husband for looking after her, for posting on here and for being so patient with her. Kepp going, she's going to need it from now until the new year.

Dhosonia - have you got anyone to look after you? Sounds like you probably need a damn good cry and a big hug and some support from someone other than your wife. Sending you a big hug XX

Hi Dhosonia,
I was not given a dressing, but my infection was minor and detected after it had cleared up (they took a swab, but forgot about it and I was stopped in the street two weeks later by the midwife - when she saw me, she remembered there was something she was meant to have told me - and told to get to the doctor immediately! One cold sweat later, the doc said it had sorted itself out.)
With the NHS, it is certainly true that if you shout loudly you will get better treatment. Ask for/find out the lead Obs/Gyn consultant's name, phone the hospital switchboard and ask to speak with his/her secretary who will know if you are the type of case they see. Then see if you can wangle a referral, if you and your wife are still concerned.

Dhosonia

I think I may have been a bit blunt in my previous post and for some reason can't get your stuation out of my mind.

What I mean to say is that I imagine what will help your wife the most at the moment is you exuding an air of calm confidence and I assume you are doing that and then coming on here and flapping.

Your wife is probably scared stiff right now (you say she's 25?) Do either of your parents live close enough to come round and hold her hand? (Mind you don't invite them in for a peek obv.)

Has you wife got a close female friend who can come round that she can talk to or is she utterly isolated?

This really is a 'lady' sort of time and it will become a less fearful experience if your wife can be empowered to talk it through for herself.

I suspect you will need some hand holding too as I imagine it's scary for you as well - after all this isn't how it was supposed to go right?

Remember being calm and confident about it all is really the best reassurance you can give her. Think about all the 'best' TV doctors, they are all calm right? try to adopt that sort of bedside manner with her. Oh and you can tell her from me with my tiny 5lb baby and an emergency c-section that she is a hugely brave and wonderful woman to have done this.

Lots of luck with it all, hope you get some support soon.

Any chance of your wife coming on here to get support? I really think she'd find it helpful...

Sorry to hear about what you're going through. Agree with what others have said: of course, you want to care for your wife and make sure her wound gets good treatment. At the same time, you do really need to work on the exuding calm thing: it could make the whole difference between her recovering quickly and tipping her into PND which could potentially have much more far reaching consequences. So breathe.

My own tear was not as scary as this (at least I don't know; dh never said), but we have had some pretty hairy moments since we became parents, involving serious accidents to dcs- and every time what has carried me through even the most horrendous moments has been the knowledge that dh is there like a rock for me to lean on.

When dh became seriously ill I tried to do the same for him; not to let him know how frightened I was.

But do feel free to let it out here: we're here to hold your hand.

I should think your wife is scared and anxious at the moment. She has a lot to deal with in addition to a newborn.

Please don't tell her that her wound is too horrific for her to see. When you can't see a wound and are just going by feel, it is easy to think things are worse than they really are and for your imagination to run away with you.

If she wants to talk about her wound, or asks you questions about it, please give her calm and honest answers. She may be interested in looking at it with a mirror. Don't suggest or pressure her one way or the other at the moment. What she feels like doing will depend on the type of person she is - I'm one of those people who likes to really know what I'm dealing with.

You are doing a great supportive role - but don't try and protect her what is happening.