Mid wife shrieking in horror at extent of open epistiotomy wound. All stitches undone, severe infection, any natural remedies anyone?

[Dhosonia]

1st time poster - Before starting i just want to say that i have tried to read every related post on the topic on mumsnet and elsehwere as i dont want to waste ppls time and effort but cant seem to find the answers that will help my wife anywhere. She is not posting herself as i am trying to burden the pain for her and think that the less she knows the better frame of mind she will be in and therefore cant get caught up in a cycle of negative pessamstic thinking. This was our first son - pessary/pitocin drip/epidural/epistiotomy/forceps. Was a wonderful pregancny but traumatic birth (28 hr labour) I feel very guilty and im blaiming myself for the mess wifes in now, as i was so wound up about the forceps scar after telling the registrar that we didnt want it (baby was in correct position, all stats ok for mother and baby) that i started having a go at her whilst the registrar was still stitching after birth saying that we didnt want forceps - look at his scar etc as she only let her push for 40 mins and cited maternal exhaustion as reason for forceps etc. so ive concluded she did a terrible job in stitching after i upset the registrar with my outburst. The room was also like a circus, 4 mw's 1 reg,1 nurse, 1 ped.

All her stitches have come undone and there is a horrible gaping open wound with pus and all sorts of gunk seeping out intertwined with whats left of her stiches. Birth on 27June back in hptal on 1st july. IV antibiotics - they cant restitch - offered possible repairin 4 - 6 mths. Whilst in hpital any mw's that checked reacted with horror when checking her wound. Back home today 6 july. Mw reacted with horror again at seeing it, cut is right from top of vagina to the rectum.

Its very severe and my wife is in huge amounts of pain. When showering to keep it clean should the water go inside the wound? or just softly outside. How long should she sit on the bidet - 1 min - 5 mins? Can i put manuka honey on it now or will it hurt to much/sting/cause bad reaction/make it worse. Does it go inside or just outside. The odour is going but its still full of white and black thimgs inside and is pinkish. Can i spray collodial silver on it? How long is healing time.

Thanks you for any replies we are totaly lost on this and seeing how much pain she is in is breaking my heart. Also have switched to combination feedimg as we dont want antibiotics getting through to son - is this a good idea?

Oh my god didn't want to leave you unanswered, I am so sorry for what your poor wife has been through. No technical advice I'm afraid but wishing her a speedy recovery.

PS surely she would have been prescribed antibiotics suitable for breastfeeding? So combination feeding pointless unless to give her a much needed rest.

I would go back to the hospital and demand a second opinion. In the meantime can you phone the hospital and ask for advice. Or possibly go to Casualty - the infection sounds very serious.

I took antibiotics while breastfeeding (flucloxacillin). Just watch out for thrush in the nipples (suspect it if feeding suddenlt becomes painful) as that can be gony and would need sorting out straight away.

Gosh, so sorry to hear about your poor wife. There is a support thread for birth injuries- search for the 'raggy bits' thread - they may have good advice about healing etc.

All the very best to all of you.

hi - thx for quick reply, metro and cefl have been shown to be carcogenic - all docs say they safe but giving to child for no reason cant be good, she breastfed for first 24hr course on antibiotics incase any of the infection got through to our little man. Metro is contraindicated in the usa but its a different dose level over there thats why its ok (in theory) in the uk as the dosage is split - trying to minimise the risks as she is only supposed to be on antib's for 5 days, after that resuming full time breast.(hope that makes sense)

Oh my goodness, it sounds awful There are enti-biotics suitable for bfeeding, I took them as I had a 3rd degree tear. My advice is to continue with the lactulose as long as she can stand it, I cut it out too soon and got an anal fissure (ouch) which was hell. The other advice is vitamin E. My mum gave me some tablets after i confided about the fissure and within two weeks it was healed, after 3.5 months of never healing up. i honestly think that vitamin E is magic for healing. I do think this is bigger than home remedies though, she needs proper anti-bios and painkillers to get rid of the infection and control the pain.

Time to stop blaming yourself as well, you sound like you were stressed and in shock during the birth and it's not your fault, or hers. Lots of babies cause damage on the way out and it's rarely anyone's fault.

x posted - look, I'm the most pro-bf person ever, but if the worry is anti-bios crossing into the milk then I'm afraid your wife's bits are more important. Infections can be dangerous, not to mention extremely painful, and she needs to heal before thinking of breastfeeding. Can she pump and dump to keep supply up while she's on them? Really, she needs proper meds for this, it sounds nasty.

Consult you GP - they will nedd to be involved in the ongoing care of your wife. I would also consider getting advice from a homeopath to work alongside whatever is prescribed by medics. (Only homeopathic remedy sorted out my vaginal pain although this was not related to CB).
When things startto settle down I do hope that you will write a letter of complaint about your wife's experience - I am appalled for her.

Hi,
So sorry to hear your wife and you are going through this.

I would suggest that it is safe for her to continue to breastfeed your baby, but this site is great for info.

If not breastfeeding, she will need to express to maintain lactation and although doable, bf is prob easier right now.

When are you seeing the doctors next for review? They should be able to advise re silver/ honey etc

Thx for kind words and hints.tips.thoughts. taking all advice on board, doesnt help that wife blames me as well as she noticed that i went into alpha male must protect my boy mode as soon as he came out and forget about her as i was fretting about the forceps gash on his forhead which was bleeding and red raw, this board works quick thx again

She still on antibiotics we are not goin off them so dont worry its a massive priority - we are pumping and dumping twice a day - avergae 3 breast feeds and 3 bottles (formula)and 2/3 p/d's. Thx for advice.

How old is your DS?

If it makes you feel any better, I was cross with my DH for what happened during DS's birth - for a few months. Now he's such a good Dad I've almost completely forgiven him!

Do your midwives offer a birth discussion service?

It can be helpful later on to revisit what happened during the birth and have some-one go over your labour notes with you. It can help to answer any questions ou both may have about the birth and stitching etc

I had problems with my stitches healing but not quite to this extent - but I did find that my midwife did not have experience with post-birth stitch issues and I wish I'd asked to see an actual consultant at the mat hospital rather that just a midwife or a junior doctor (who looked at it blankly and said that it wasn't infected (of course not - I had IV antibiotics during the birth for Strep - but it wasn't healing well). Or an alternative option where they are at least not squeamish - I ended up at my local sexual health clinic where they treated me for granulation of the wound (basically it was still weeping 8 weeks later) and fixed me up perfectly.

I had salt baths in the meantime - I would expect that would be okay for your wife. I've not heard of the honey and would be slightly hesitant if it's that much of an open wound still. If she's had the antibiotics I'm guessing that you're not thinking there's an active infection - if there is, take her in to the hospital...

Wishing your wife a quick recovery and congratulations on the birth of your son.

Oh your poor wife, and you as well.

Firstly, I would get a second opinion on the restitching. I had a couple of episiotomy stitches come out (looked horrific but nothing like what you describe), and put off pushing for a referral back to the consultant. Saw consultant at about 6 months and he could not understand why I hadn't come back straight away, said restitching was relatively simple. Of course, you'll have to be infection free first, but perhaps there is no need to suffer for months after that.

Secondly, it is painful, but it does heal up after a fashion, so even if a repair can't be done for months, that does not necessarily mean months of the pain your wife is in now.

Thirdly, for healing, I would recommend a bath twice a day, with lavender in. You can also get other healing herbs from eg neals yard (ask my midwife andrea dombrowe Surrey independent midwives for which herbs if you are interested). I did this, seemed to heal well (the initial healing, not the wound coming together obviously). I wouldn't apply anything else at all, or have showers etc, as all can introduce infection. In this weather, wearing a skirt and no knickers should help get air to the wound as well.

Also, sounds ridiculous, but she does need to try to keep her legs together as much as possible. An epi wound will open up each time legs are moved apart, so need to try not to sit cross legged etc.

Fourth, re the bf and anti bs, your wife needs to keep expressing every 3 hours if she wants to bf when she is off the anti bs. It would be a shame to muck up the bf for the sake of this, if she is keen on bf that is, it just makes this even more traumatic.

Fifth, it is not your fault. It is not her fault. It is possibly the hospitals fault, but then again, sometimes this crap just happens. I've had 2 awful births, both times I think the hospital were to blame, but really, they were just trying to prevent a worse outcome. What I'm trying to say is that beating yourself up will not help. The hospital probably has a post birth reflections/counselling service you can go to in the fullness of time. Use it, it will help. But in the meantime, put blame out if your head and focus on your baby and your wife.

Sixth, congratulations! This will get better, it's a hard start, but it will get better. Good luck.

I'd get your wife some probiotic capsules to take in between the antibiotic doses to try and prevent her probiotics being wiped out, which will make thrush, etc more likely.

Definitely get the GP on board and get an urgent 2nd opinion if they think it's warranted or it would make your wife feel happier.

Is your wife not on any pain relief? If she's in severe pain, she should be. Severe pain is not good for anyone. FWIW, Motherisk are the international experts on medications when breastfeeding.

Based on non-CB injuries, I'd say gently on the water - don't force it in there, but don't prevent it either.

My opinion would be definitely don't put honey or anything not prescribed in the wound - you don't want to be upsetting the vaginal pH any more than you have to right now - your wife really doesn't need anythign extra that would make her more prone to getting thrush.

If she's not on them already, a good multisupplement won't hurt and the vitamins shoudl help healing and help support your wife while she's in such a state plus recovering from childbirth and trying to breastfeed.

I hada very bad wound after first delivery. Regular salt baths and 100% aloe vera (preferably straight from the plant if possible)

I know it sounds very hippy, which I am not...but the aloe really helped healing...best wishes

Oh please don't feel guilty about this. You can't take any blame firthis sort of thing. For years I blamed my problems on the dr who stitched my tear, but eventually I realised that, whether he did a good job or a bad job, the infection had nothing to do with him.

I do think that the best thing would be to return to your ob/gyn. Such a situation must be treated with the appropriate conventional therapy. Sometimes home remedies can only support a condition.

My situation was not as severe as your dw's sounds to be. My tear did not heal fully, and I had two patches of necrotic tissue - flesh that had not healed and was rotten. My obgyn twice cauterised the patches with sliver nitrate (I think that was it - a silver compound, anyway) which sounds ghastly butwas only uncomfortable, not painful. This seemed to stop the patches growing, but did not heal them. Eventually I had the patches cut out under GA and restitched.

I don't think sitting in a bidet is a good idea. I have a feeling that doing this may have been a contributary factor to my condition. Far better, I think, to rinse the area with running water.

As for antibiotics, as long as your dw is given abs compatible with bfing, then it is best to continue breastfeeding. Especially as right now your dw is establishing her supply. Her body will make the amount of milk that is required, and that is defined by how much the baby takes. So mix-feeding will tell her body to make less milk.

Ps you say wound is pink - that is v good. Pink is granulation tissue ( the stuff the body builds to fill in wounds), means all is starting to heal properly.

The things you learn with childbirth!

"Can i put manuka honey on it now?"

Hell, no!

Why can't she be restitched? They stitch people up after gunshot wounds, I can't imagine why they won't do more in the way of stitching.

Tiktok (one of our breastfeeding cousellor members) and others will be around I imagine but there are very few drugs necessitating pumping and dumping.

I have ongoing problems due to gaping stitches which weren't restitched.

Are you in the US? I note the term "ped" - here we'd say "paed".

You say you regret your input / outburst about scarring and the stitching, I note also your concern about antibiotics despite doctors saying it is safe. Please don't be offended but I think now is the time to let the doctors do their thing. There are some things which can be dealt with via alternative meds, but a serious problem like this needs the doctor to take charge and repair your poor wife's bits before the ongoing infection affects her long-term.

i would want a second opinion on this asap.

Longtalljosie talks sense. (And lots others too.) Leave well alone, get expert help, support your wife but let others do their job.

Personally I would call the emergency doctor right now. They can advise you about whether she needs to be re-admitted to the hospital. If not, get an appointment at the gp surgery TOMORROW. Once you are being seen by doctors and not midwives, you can ask all the questions about the best way to help the wound heal. And perhaps you should get a referral to the district nurses - who may have more experience with healing wounds.

On the comments about blaming yourself, and your wife blaming you, I hardly see how it's your fault. Unfortunately, child birth is difficult and dangerous. Just because some people get through it without problems doesn't change that fact. But you can help now - by getting her proper medical attention - and by letting her get some sleep.

Best of luck to all three of you.

i work for NHS24 we would definately take a discharging wound like this seriously. i think calling NHS24/Direct tonight would be a good idea for further advice.