Mid wife shrieking in horror at extent of open epistiotomy wound. All stitches undone, severe infection, any natural remedies anyone?

[Dhosonia]

1st time poster - Before starting i just want to say that i have tried to read every related post on the topic on mumsnet and elsehwere as i dont want to waste ppls time and effort but cant seem to find the answers that will help my wife anywhere. She is not posting herself as i am trying to burden the pain for her and think that the less she knows the better frame of mind she will be in and therefore cant get caught up in a cycle of negative pessamstic thinking. This was our first son - pessary/pitocin drip/epidural/epistiotomy/forceps. Was a wonderful pregancny but traumatic birth (28 hr labour) I feel very guilty and im blaiming myself for the mess wifes in now, as i was so wound up about the forceps scar after telling the registrar that we didnt want it (baby was in correct position, all stats ok for mother and baby) that i started having a go at her whilst the registrar was still stitching after birth saying that we didnt want forceps - look at his scar etc as she only let her push for 40 mins and cited maternal exhaustion as reason for forceps etc. so ive concluded she did a terrible job in stitching after i upset the registrar with my outburst. The room was also like a circus, 4 mw's 1 reg,1 nurse, 1 ped.

All her stitches have come undone and there is a horrible gaping open wound with pus and all sorts of gunk seeping out intertwined with whats left of her stiches. Birth on 27June back in hptal on 1st july. IV antibiotics - they cant restitch - offered possible repairin 4 - 6 mths. Whilst in hpital any mw's that checked reacted with horror when checking her wound. Back home today 6 july. Mw reacted with horror again at seeing it, cut is right from top of vagina to the rectum.

Its very severe and my wife is in huge amounts of pain. When showering to keep it clean should the water go inside the wound? or just softly outside. How long should she sit on the bidet - 1 min - 5 mins? Can i put manuka honey on it now or will it hurt to much/sting/cause bad reaction/make it worse. Does it go inside or just outside. The odour is going but its still full of white and black thimgs inside and is pinkish. Can i spray collodial silver on it? How long is healing time.

Thanks you for any replies we are totaly lost on this and seeing how much pain she is in is breaking my heart. Also have switched to combination feedimg as we dont want antibiotics getting through to son - is this a good idea?

very reassuring post carbonated...

yeah, about antibiotiocs. i BF DD1 and DD2 between 1-2 years each and both times took antibiotics every other month as had recurring UTIs. both children have suffered no side effect from this and indeed DD1 is 5 and has never had to take antibiotics for anything. no ear/chest infections etc. make sure you take a probiotic daily though.

We're definitely all listening, and we all want what's best for your wife.

Panic mode is entirely understandable. And I think you're doing great to be so involved and willing to help with the wound care.

What has she said she would like from you?

And tell us about your little boy! How exciting, a sweet little son, you must be thrilled.

I feel really sorry for you both, what an awful start, though in time the trauma will be forgotten. I don't have any advice about the wound, but I just wanted to emphasize the importance of really strong probiotics (like billions per capsule, millions not enough), to avoid breast thrush, which would just be a disaster for your wife right now, speaking from experience. Biocare do high strength ones.

Just a quick note - suggest bathing/sitting several times a day in a few inches of warm water with drops of Calendula tincture and lavender added. Dry gently and allow air at the area. Calendula very good to promote healing. Should be helpful used in conjunction with antibiotics. Also important, as other poster mentioned, to rest as much as one can with a new baby! Congratulations to you and your wife on your little boy. Sounds like you've all been through the wringer, but it does and will heal...

Jeeeeesus . You poor things, that sounds like a really traumatic birth

Please encourage your wife to contact the Birth Crisis Network when she feels ready to talk and both of you need to look at the Birth Trauma Association Website.

Not much to add to the advice here except my best wishes and sympathies.

Agree 100% with Tortoise, and would go a bit further in saying that you need to give the poor woman a break, help her rest and don't pressure her into "treatments" she doesn't want to try.

Personally, the only thing that would have prevented me from giving you a good kick for deciding that no forceps should be used, deciding that I wasn't tired because I had only pushed for 40 minutes and having a go at a consultant that was trying to stitch me up, would be that the very possible use of epidural would have prevented me to do so.

I remember my first days after my child was born, and the pain after a big tear (couldn't walk/sit properly for a month) and at that time I did NOT need my usual know-it-all husband to sort my health problems in behalf of the medical staff, to decide the birth should have done this way or another, or that I should not use x or y medicine while breastfeeding. I just needed someone to care for me, to make a cup of tea for me, to ensure I was not starving through the exhaustion. Someone to care for the baby so I could have a bath or go to the toilet. And someone to keep the house in order so I could have some rest and gather strength to cope with the demands that come with adding a baby to a family.

Not someone adding to the stress and exhaustion by trying to solve the problems his way ignoring my needs, wishes and opinions.

Sorry. Guess that's just one of the many reasons the man who was there with me at the birth is now my exh.

I second what someone said about lavender oil in the bath. I did this every day after episiotomy and it cleared up my infection and helped me heal. If you and your wife are scared of salt water stinging why not try this. Easy to get hold of and will be relaxing for a new mum too! I was also on strong painkillers and ABs and would say it was uncomfortable, certainly aching if i'd been on my feet all day. There's no excuse for your wife to be in agony.
Good luck and congratulations on ds!

Gosh, it sounds like your birth wasn't at all well managed by the 'professionals'. Your poor wife. But congratulations on a healthy son.

I had an episotomy to allow forceps delivery as I was beyond knackered after a long labour and a few days later my stitches started to come undone although nothing like your wife's problem. My doctor advised salt baths several times a day and my midwife suggested applying tea tree oil and lavender oil which I did (neat!). It stung a bit but I healed very quickly after this. Also pouring water from a jug when peeing helps to reduce stinging.

I was also quite upset after the birth as I felt I uterrly lost control over what was happening (I was induced), I ended up having no say in the birth and just did what I was told. My partner was also quite traumatised and felt similarly helpless but tried to stay calm for my sake. It was not what we envisaged!

It hepled me greatly to get one of the midwives to go through my notes of the birth and tell me what went on. Just unburdening seemed to remove that upset.

Just in case worries for the future have crossed your mnds, I just want to tell you that, despite my internal and external 2nd dgree tear, infections and eventual restitching, we went on to have another dc 2y later. I tore again along the scar, but not as badly, and this time healed with no problems whatsoever. In fact, the second birth somehow rearrangedme and sorted out all my residual problems. And 3y after that, dc3, the biggest of my babies, was born without damaging me at all.

So, while things may seem gruesome right now, and deeply upsetting for both of you, it's not going to be this way forever.

Now, tell us about your ds!

Salt will sting - don't even go there!

If you have a shower hose that reaches the loo, gently spraying water over herself will help with going to the loo - or just use the bath!

If she's still in severe pain, she should be given pain relief. Codeine is on the KellyMom list of things that are okay to take when bfing and I've known a few Mums with chronic health conditions take it then no problem. The PP mentioned lidocaine and this can be great too.

Bodies heal amazingly well and the best way to help your wife heal after the antibiotics have finished (unless she needs more antibiotics of course) is to make sure she gets as much rest as possible, stays well hydrated and eats nutritious food - all doubly important when breastfeeding as well. Stress reduction also aids healing, so try to be calm for her - and make sure she gets the pain relief she needs (pain is a physiological stress).

So sorry your wife (and you) are going through this. I think it is completely inappropriate for health professionals to 'shriek in horror' at your wife's wound as this will obviously have an adverse impact on how your wife is feeling. I had a third degree tear with my first child and remember going to my gp about my wound 8 weeks after having my baby. My gp basically told me that I would never be the same again because of the 'significant damage' I'd experienced. This was not what I needed to hear. I went home and sobbed my heart out. Roll on a few months later and I felt 99% per cent better and almost back to normal. If the gp had said 'yes you've had a bad tear, and it will take time to heal, and if it doesn't there are things we could do' I would have felt so much more positive which I'm sure would have made me feel better in myself.

Hope her wound heals very soon.

Hi thanks for all the info everyone pretty candles and japhrim webminx and everyone else lavender and calendula and tea tree oil i think are the best things in the water?? - nursse and gp tmw, we have 4 cmw and one of them is just great she had tears in her eyes (away from wife as i was seeing her out) at the thought of the pain my w must be in (w is sweet, beautiful, pure at heart)and has said nurse tmw will be providing sterile dressings to put on the area - just hope we have stopped combination soon enough - started on sunday and finished today, with breast milk all day but she says she feels "dry" and its not building up the way it was with golfball size nuggets stuck in her mammaries (massage would remove)is there anything we can do to encourage more bmilk? we were pumping all the way through and dumping except on few occasions when being seen my doc/mw etc.

With the worry of the wound and worry of now possibly reduced or halting breast milk we are both in panic mode again. Very worried its shrunk in 3 days. Also is there anything i can put on his harry potter forceps war scar?

He is the most well behaved little one he only cries when hungry or nappy change needed otherwise he just doodles along himself, we are over the moon that he is healthy etc and is the mega million ton silver plated gold lining to trauma of wound and birth. I cant believe i love the smell of his poo, look fwd to getting up in the night when he cries as it means i get to see him while i pick him up and hand him to his mother to bfeed dont mind not sleeping love dressing him and cleaning his little botty when he has done a poo or wee, we do everything together except when shes asleep as i want her to rest, hope i havent bored anyone, wife feels a bit better today after mw's reassurances night

The only thing I can think to add is zinc. It really aids healing.... your beautiful wife can take it in pill form but you will get more points serving oysters!

The other thing that really helped me was what someone else mentioned a hand held shower....on tepid....to help with the agony of going to the loo. Oh and serious analgesia.....I was given endone. Can't imagine getting through those weeks without it.

You will also get through it as unimaginable as it seems at the moment. Although I would not recommend it I went on to have another baby 15m later....

So glad you are able to feel the joy, and not being totally bogged-down in distress. This is anamazing time for you three. Enjoy it . Dh and I did absolutely everything together for dc1's first week: every feed, every nappy-change, everything. We had no visitors (except the midwife!) and left the phone on wnswerphone whenever we chose to. It felt like another honeymoon.

Not quite the same with dc2 or dc3. Ah well, that's parenthood for you.

The absolute best thing your dw can do about her breasts is to stop pumping and feed. Honestly and truely, the antibiotics will be compatible with bfing, and bfing is the best thing for her and for ds right now. A baby is much more efficient than a pump at extracting milk, and likelywill do so more often than you are pumping.

Sorry, I think I misunderstood - you have already stopped pumping and he is now completely bfed?

In which case just ensure he and his mum have plenty of skin-to-skin time and let him feed whenever he wants. Undress him down to nappy, dw undress top half including bra, and they spend aday or two in bed together. This can really boost supply.

You can also have skin-to-skin timewith him - it's one of life's great delights.

Does your dw know you are posting here? If she wants to talk about this - or anything! - we would all love to hear from her, too. You are being fabulous, but she will need a chance to get her own head around what is happening to her hairy.

I agree with prettycandles advice about how to increase milk supply. But if your wife was pumping during the brief mixed feeding time and if your son is feeding well (lots of yellow poo nappies, plenty of wee) then her supply is probably absolutely fine. Breasts stop being as rock hard and that is normal. Just feed feed feed and don't try and time feeds to stretch them out.

Oh what an awful typo! I truely did not mean to type (whispers) "hairy". I meant "body" of course.

I'm posting on an iPhone, and it does some weird autocorrections. I didn't spot that one. I am very sorry and I hope you read this correction before you read that cringe-making gaff.

Lots of breastfeeding and skin to skin time is the best way to build up supply, but make sure your wife is staying well hydrated too.

With pumping, it's a lot harder to get as much milk out and to feed as often as you might do if baby-led.

Check with your MW, but some vitamin E cream might help the baby's scar. Baby scars are rarely major in later life though.

Oh prettycandles thanks for bringing that to my attention, I have just laughed for about 5 minutes!

Re. encouraging more breastmilk - feed, feed, feed. If you've got lumps there she's at risk of mastitis and so those must be cleared. Hot flannels, massage, but above everything the baby is the key to getting those blockages cleared.

Great tips on here so will just add something I couldn't see anyone else having mentioned and which I used after birth with tear. I was told by health visitor to bath after number ones and two's in a water with tea tree oil in it. It is an essential oil which is anticeptic. Worked wonders on my open wound. Use three to four drops into the water. Stung a little but wasn't too bad at all. All good pharmacies will have it.

Also, very important. When she uses the loo she should pour water down her bits to dilute the urin so it doesn't infect her wound further.

I really think you should call her GP and ask that he/she does a home visit to take a look (she shouldn't have to walk around too much) and explain the issue with hospital. GP might be able to refer to specialist or for second opinion quicker than the silly hospital your in. Either that or simply take her to the A & E of a hospital with a very good maternity unit (even if it is a good drive from where you live). You can always say you were in the area for a different reason when you wife complained of extreme pain!

Your doing wonderful, by the way, as a support. Good luck to you and to your wife - it will get better.

Oh your poor wife. I had a nasty tear which took ages to heal, but nothing like she's going through. All advice here is great and is what I used to help me to heal. I didn't use a salt bath (ouch), but 1 tsp bicarb of soda, 2 drops tea tree oil, 3 drops lavender oil in the bath. Definitely keep taking the stool softeners and ensure that any analgesics are not of the constipating variety. Wouldn't recommend manuka honey at all in this instance.

For the breast lumps, when feeding the baby your wife could try to massage the lump towards the nipple with her thumb to encourage the milk to go. The last thing she needs is mastitis...

Arrange two pillows parallel with a gap between for when she sits down in an armchair (esp for the long sit down of bf'ing) - so that her thighs sit down on the pillows and there isn't any pressure on her bits.

Let her rest as much as you can, and try not to keep bombarding her with solutions to her problems and to listen, not just tell her what to do. She is probably feeling hurt emotionally as well as physically, and a hug and cup of tea can be worth more than all the advice in the world. I shouldn't generalise, but am about to - sometimes men rush around trying to fix everything, when their beloved just needs a shoulder to cry on.

Thanks again for bfeeding advice duly noted, and clarification of what oils to use, more patheticness from the distrtict nurse today who yesterday the mw said was a wound specialist - she was nice and well meaning and when we asked about other stuff (lavender tree tea) she said ask the mw! whereas the mw told us to ask the nurse! she didnt know what to do with the wound, she rang another nurse who said to put some antibacterial dressing on it - not sure she has applied it properly - it has gone into the wound if you catch my meaning, its over it and folded on one side (imagine a lip/labia being plastered into the inside of the vagina) - whereas the hpital mentioned (that screwed it all up in forst place) to leave it as it is so all the infection can come out. Its a removable dressing which can be reused - i can see plus points - protects from wee and poo etc but how is the skin going to join together if there is a bit of dressing folded onto the very outer edge of the wound?

She is in pain from the dressing, we live in a village so im guessing that they wont have much experience with this hence nurse not knowing what to do. Any advice?

Dhosonia, with all due respect, you need to butt out of your wife's healthcare a bit. I understand you are upset but form what you say I dont think you are helping. You admit to not knowing about wounds so please leave it.

If you want my professional opinion (you may not so ignore if that is the case) then its this. Do not put anything else on the wound. No oils, no honey nothing. you run the risk of complicating matters - if it gets worse you wont know what caused it. The rule of wound care is to keep the wound as warm as possible and moist. Provide a barrier to infection which is difficult given where the wound is.

The dressing sounds about right.
Some dressings are hydrocolloid dressings that promote healing by secondary intention. which I suspect is what this is. That means it encourages tissue to grow together to eventually meet in the middle. Primary intention is where the wound is stitched or stapled together. The wound infection is probably the reason this cant happen at the moment.

Do not be worried that your dn called someone else. Would you rather her bluff it with something she has never seen before? or ask someone more knowledgeable who possibly has seen this? the fact that she asked is good. Do you never ask for second opinions in your job?

TRy to relax a bit. The wound will take at least a few weeks to heal. Get your gp to look at your wife's pain relief and concentrate on helping your wife recover by making sure she is eating and sleeping. This is not only important for a new mother but for anyone who is trying to heal too.

Hth a bit. Sorry to have told you of but I have lost cont of the panicky men I have met over the years

Hi Dhosonia, as others have said it is lovely for you to be so involved and worried about your wife and new baby, but as nellie says I think you need to step back a bit. It sounds as if you are there peering on every time she is examined, give her a bit of dignity and privacy! From your last posts it sounds as if you were examining her bits in close up, is she happy with you doing this?? How old is your wife, and does she know you are posting these intimate details here??