Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

The thread for first time home birthers (or thinking about it) - over here!

993 replies

Boobz · 23/07/2008 11:53

I only just found out I was pregnant 10 days ago, and it is of course early days, but I have been doing a lot of research and am seriously thinking of having a home birth.

I'm a member of my Due March '09 ante natal club thread, but I don't want to go on about home birthing there where the majority will be planning a hospital birth (don't want to bore them!) I'd like to start this thread for all those people who'd like to talk about the pros and cons, planning, expectations and realities of home births, especially if it is your first baby, or first home birth.

Has everyone else's other halves been fine at the thought of a first baby HB? Or did you have to do some convincing?

A

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 12/08/2008 11:09

thanks so much for that greenmonkies - have been starting to get the jitters over HB again but reading posts like that help me reaffirm my decision....

badkitty · 12/08/2008 11:40

Can I ask a question about my latest worry which is the dreaded stitches? I am utterly terrified of being stitched up with no pain relief - or even worse actually being given an episiotomy... Stupidly perhaps I am much more frightened by this than the actual birth. But I presume if you have a home birth then if episiotomy/stitches are needed the midwives just do it there and then with no pain relief... can anyone reassure me?

Boobz · 12/08/2008 13:19

Yes - hospital one now please!

OP posts:
GreenMonkies · 12/08/2008 13:37

Badkitty, I had stitches after my homebirth, they have lignocaine in the kit, so I didn;t feel a thing. Chances are you won't need an episiotomy at a homebirth, episiotomies tend to happen when you are having an instrumental delivery (forceps or ventouse) and if you birth supine in lithotomy (on your back, legs in stirrups), if you birth upright you are unlikely to need to be cut, I only tore because my previous episiotomy scar was stitched too tight (but thats a whole other story!!)

Here's my hospital experience;

My EDD was Thursday August 28th, and as it was my first baby everyone said I would go over. However on the Sunday I woke at 5am having low sharp contractions and began walking around the house. I rang the labour ward at about 9am as I was definitely sure I was in labour by this time, having sharp painful 45 second contractions every 15 minutes. They told me to just stay at home until they got longer and closer together. I got in the bath and pottered around the house for hours, the contractions got closer together then drifted apart again, no pattern emerging.

By 5pm I felt a change in the contractions so I checked my cervix. (I used to use a cap for contraception so I'm familiar with my cervix!) I could tell I was dilating, but didn't know how much. I rang the labour ward and spoke to a midwife who told me I couldn't possibly know I was dilated, so I explained that I'd done a VE and could feel it. She went mental and told me off like a naughty school girl and said all sorts of things about infection risk, which is rubbish as there is virtually no infection risk as long as your waters haven't broken. Any way she told me to come in, to be on the safe side.

We got to the assessment room and I was examined by a different MW who confirmed that I was just over 3cm, and who thought my self examination was great, and made sure she told the MW from the phone that I had been right! My mum came up and the three of us sat around waiting for things to kick off, and we waited, and waited, and waited. My blood pressure (which had been 110/60 thru my entire pg) went quite high, so my plan of a water birth was shelved, much to my dissapointment (I have since learnt that high BP should not stop you having a water birth, so perhaps it would have all gone differently if I had been allowed to get in the pool). By midnight I was still only 3cm, and the contractions were still irregular. Through out all this I had only paracetamol and codiene, as although the contractions were sharp, they were not very painful, and I used yoga breathing to relax through them. At 1am they decided to admit me to the labour ward, so my DP went home to get some sleep and my mum stayed with me over night. All night my contractions continued, but with no pattern change, sometimes 5 mins apart, sometimes 40. But, they were just too close together and slightly too uncomfortable to allow me to sleep, so I sat up and counted and timed and walked.

At 10am the next morning I had reached only 4cm, my mum went home for a rest and DP came back in. I had several baths, but still no progress, one midwife tried to "accidently" break my waters whilst she was examining me to see if we could get things going, but my membrane was as stubborn as me and stayed intact. All this time they kept monitoring the baby on and off, and the heartbeat was rock solid. My contractions continued all day, irregular but increasing in intensity, and at 6pm I was sent home as they felt I was making no progress and would be more comfortable at home. (However I had not been examined since 11am that morning.) We got home, I got in the bath and then went to bed about 10.30, trying to get comfortable and failing (I'd had pelvic pain, but not SPD, for the last 3 weeks, which made it difficult to sleep) and at 11.58 during one of my contractions my waters went with a pop and a whoosh, all over the bed. Thank goodness I had taken someones advice and covered the mattress in waterproof sheets!

My contractions kicked in hard and fast, every 4 minutes and strong enough to take my breath away. We rang the labour ward and made our way back in. When we got there I was 9cm and puffing like a train. I was transferred to a delivery suit and the hard work began. All night I pushed and pushed, feeling no pain, but very focused and unable to talk during contractions. This is 2am Monday night/Tuesday morning, I'd been awake since 5am Sunday and was starting to get really tired.

I pushed and pushed, the baby inched it's way out, a tiny fraction at a time, and at 6am the obstetric registrar came in and started to tell me that we needed to get this baby out. They had been monitoring the baby on and off, and she was showing no signs of distress, but they felt I had been in labour long enough. I just wanted to sleep, in fact I was drifting off between contractions, and struggling to stay awake and take in what the Dr was telling me. She then said she was going to do an epidural and take me into theatre and deliver the baby with forceps, at this point I woke up. Eventually I managed to get it across that I would not have an epidural, if she had read my maternity notes she would have seen that I have joint hypermobility and a back problem which makes lying on my back pushing with my legs in stirrups under this level of anasthesia a bad idea, as if I can't feel whats going on I could push wrong in this position and injure myself badly.

She eventually suggested we deliver using local anasthesia and a ventouse, and, too tired to argue any more, I agreed and every one went to action stations. I lost all control over what was happening, and as the Dr started to give me the local I sat and watched what she was doing to me in the reflection of her glasses! Very surreal. At one point she catheterised me with out telling me and I asked her what she was doing, and she actually seemed cross that I should want to know what she was prodding me with! Excuse me but that's my privates you're rummaging about in, you could at least warn me before you do something. This made me quite cross as I am a member of staff at this hospital, and so know all about the issues of informed consent etc.

They hooked me up to a drip and hard, painful contractions, kicked in with avengance. They put my legs in stirrups and told me to push, with me all the time telling them that I wasn't supposed to push in this position, and at 7.05am Tuesday August 26th (50 hours after it had all begun) DD1 was pulled out and flopped onto my tummy. She looked at me and grunted, very calm and relaxed, so they poked her to make her cry! They cut her cord instantly, gave me more oxytocin to expell the placenta and hauled it out by the cord, asking my DP as an after thought if he'd wanted to cut her cord. My plan for a natural birth with a physiological third stage had gone out the window and I then bled out 850mls (which is just shy of a PPH) and had to have several large clots "manually" removed from my uterus, and by the time she was stitching up my episiotomy the local anasthetic was wearing off, not nice.

Just remember that this is not always the way in hospital, some women have lovely hospital births.......

Monkies

badkitty · 12/08/2008 13:51

GreenMonkies - sounds horrible. I just can't believe they make women give birth in stirrups - it sounds like some kind of torture to me.

What is lignocaine - is it some sort of topical anaesthetic cream? Anyway that is a relief

GreenMonkies · 12/08/2008 13:54

lignocaine is local anaesthetic, can be cream but generally injected, like at the dentist, except not into your mouth obviously!

As for stirrups, don't start me on how bad stirrups are........

Monkies

GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 12/08/2008 14:24

my midwife team will bring local anaesthetic in case I need stitching up....

kiskidee · 12/08/2008 16:23

further on to what Greenmonkies said wrt classic excuse, no 1, I have had that.

I have put a rocket up my Trusts backside. I am currently awaiting an official response. I have an unofficial (email) one from the Supervisor of Midwives who has given me the mobile no for the SOM who will be on duty when I am in labour so none of that shite is wasted on me.

I am happy to post the letter here or CAT it to anyone who finds herself in the same position.

I had already written one to have my MW changed from one who was totally unsupportive of my HWB.

Boobz · 12/08/2008 17:24

Yes Kiskidee - I'd love you to post the letter here - that's what this thread is for - as much info and help as possible.

x

OP posts:
GreenMonkies · 12/08/2008 17:31

Here is the "birth plan" I sent to the SOM, it achieved enormous results and they couldn't do enough for me;

Dear Madam,

I am currently 36 weeks pregnant with my second child. My first was born in hospital and for a variety of reasons I am intending to stay at home for the birth of this baby, due the week beginning June 19th.

So far I have met a few of the Team at my ante-natal appointments, and most of them have been really nice and very supportive and understanding of my desire to stay at home, however, this has not been the case with all of them, and couple have been positively dismissive of my reasons.

I had a long, but straight forward labour with my first baby, which culminated in unnecessary (and potentially dangerous) use of a synthetic oxytocin drip, stirrups, episiotomy and ventouse delivery. The midwife who attended me told me later that this had been over zealous as I would have given birth naturally if I?d been left to rest for a while, as I requested at the time. My ?natural? labour was very positive, I had hard, but irregular, contractions but I stayed upright and mobile and they were not at all painful. I have a joint condition called Hyper-mobility. My ligaments are very lax, I am, even when not pregnant, very flexible and prone to dislocation, which is most problematic in my lumbar spine and sacral areas. As you can imagine when I am pregnant my ligaments become extremely soft and these problems become much worse. I wore a pelvic support belt for the final few weeks of my last pregnancy, and have been using one since the 26th week this time. For these reasons a supine delivery is contraindicated, and because this was ignored in my last labour (including the use of stirrups) I now have a prolapsed disk at L4/L5.

I took a lot of time educating myself about childbirth before I had my last baby, and as I grew up on a livestock farm I witnessed ?natural? births all my childhood, so I have a very down to earth attitude. I have no fear of labour, as I said above, my ?natural? labour last time was a positive experience, I felt no pain and was content although working very hard. I will happily transfer to hospital if this labour shows clinical signs of needing me too, however, I do not consider a long labour (like my last one) to be a good enough reason to leave home, nor do I expect to be told that there are not enough Midwives on duty to be able to send someone out to me. I am aware of my rights and the Trusts obligations, so I will expect a Midwife to attend me, even if it is an Independent one, paid for by the Trust.

My last labour was a calm and positive experience right up until the last 20 minutes, when intervention was forced upon me. At that point the birth of my baby became a stressful, painful and panicked event, which left me physically and emotionally damaged. This time I would like an air of calm around me, my daughter (who will be three in August) will be welcome in the room if she wants to be (and is awake!) and as she is still nursing I will be happy to have her near me if all is going well. I have plenty of family support near by, my sister lives in too, and my mum is an hour away, and will be coming up to be with me whilst I am in labour. (So I do have ?emergency? babysitters should I need to go to hospital)

I would like the umbilical cord to stay intact until it has stopped pulsating, I do not want to be given any injections to force my uterus to expel my placenta, or have traction applied to the cord. I intend to have a natural, physiological third stage, delivering the placenta after breastfeeding my baby, possibly even before the cord has been clamped and cut. I view labour and birth as a natural event, not a medical procedure, contractions are contractions, not ?pains? (as so many Midwives refer to them) and I know that my body is designed and capable of performing this task. Since having my last baby I have done further reading, including ?Birth Reborn? by Michel Odent and ?New Active Birth? by Janet Balaskas (I own copies of both should any of your staff wish to read them) and I am currently reading ?Childbirth Without Fear? by Grantly Dick-Read.

I hope that by putting this in writing and sending it in to the team in advance that those who do end up coming to my house to help deliver my baby will understand what I want, and why I want it. I had a ?Birth Plan? written and attached to my maternity notes last time, stating all of this, detailing my joint problems and desire for a physiological third stage etc, however, once I was in hospital no-one looked at my maternity notes so all my ?plans? were ignored. I am happy to have a student Midwife attend with the Midwife if there is one who wishes to see a homebirth.

Feel free to use it as a template if you like!

Monkies

kiskidee · 12/08/2008 19:27

My first letter to SOM when my midwife said unequivocally: No one on our team does (home) waterbirths so if that is what you want you will have to transfer to another team. Then she proceeded to put every possible obstacle in my way, but in a pseudo-concerned way, of why it may not be a good idea.

This template was borrowed from the Homebirth.org.uk website. It is not mine, but the owners of the site is pleased to have anyone use it.

Dear SOM

My baby is due on xxxx and I have booked a home water birth under the care of xxxx.

I am writing to inform you that I do not wish Midwife XXXX to be involved in my antenatal care, or to attend my labour and birth.

I am very sorry for any inconvenience this may cause you, and really do not wish to create additional work for you or your staff. However, I feel that Midwife XXXX does not support my aims in wishing to give birth at home.

I am worried that her attendance at the birth might have a negative effect on my labour, and I am not prepared to take the chance of this happening. I am also concerned that seeing her during antenatal appointments could make me anxious.
I do not intend to make any negative comments about Midwife XXXX's skills; I am sure that she is perfectly competent and that she has provided wonderful care to many women. It is simply unfortunate that she does not appear to support my intention of having a home birth.

I am sure you will understand that I do not wish to discuss this matter with Midwife XXXX. I would be grateful if you could arrange for another midwife to take over my care, who is supportive of my desire to give birth at home.

On a positive note, I met Midwife YYYY at a previous antenatal appointments and was pleased with the care I received from her. I am however currently unaware of her position towards home and water births so I do not know how she would feel towards a request to support a home or water birth. I would be delighted if you could arrange for either Midwife YYYY or another midwife outside her Team or in another Team or PCT who is likely to be supportive of my choice for a home or water birth to take over my care.

Sincerely,

IceCube · 12/08/2008 19:43

I noticed GreenMonkies put in her letter she didn't want the placenta injection but I think I've seen somewhere that this isn't encouraged at HBs incase you bleed too much.

Hoping it's just another HB myth to scare us though since I think I'd rather not have it.

GreenMonkies · 12/08/2008 20:23

The injection is included in the homebirth kit, you can go for a physiological third stage and if the MW felt you were bleeding too much you can have the injection at that point. However, if you wait for the cord to stop pulsating before clamping and cutting and breastfeed as soon as possible you reduce the bleeding risk. They were concerned about bleeding as my platelets were low, but at no time did the team say that I'd be better having the injection.

Anecdotally, I bled far more after the injection and "cord traction" at my first birth than I did after the physiological third stage at my homebirth. I have looked and looked for the data they base the assertion that the injection reduces bleeding, and I can't find any. I have a private theory that it became popular/neccessary when women stopped/discouraged from breastfeeding and the body wasn't being given it's natural hormone stimulation to expell the placenta. Also, when the cord is left to stop pulsating before it is clamped and cut there is less blood left in the placenta, and I wonder if this makes it detatch easier. I have nothing to base this on, but it's my theory and I'm sticking to it. A friend of mine had to goto theatre twice to have her placenta removed, after a "conventional" management (cord clamped and cut instantly and injection) but her third baby was born very quickly at home, before she could get to the hospital or a MW could get out to her, they didn't cut the clamp or cord, just wrapped the baby up, breastfed her and sat and waited for the ambulance to take her in, and after about 15 minutes the placenta came out cleanly and with no prompting or help. Again, it's only one case, but it makes me wonder!

Call me an old cynic, but I question everything, and quite often when you ask "why?" often enough you eventually get an answer of "we don't know, it's just the way it's done".

Nuff said!

Monkies

kiskidee · 12/08/2008 20:32

Second letter, cobbled together from a template on the Homebirth.org.uk website and with further information from AIMS website and some ad-libbing from yours truly, to my Trust when I was told "but if we are busy you will have to come in":

The Chief Executive
Director of Midwifery
Supervisor of Midwives

Dear Sirs/Madam:

I have booked a home confinement in water for the birth of my child, EDD xxxx. I have been informed at my last antenatal meeting, (date), with my midwife that should the Maternity Unit at - Trust be busy when I go into labour, that I will ?have to? come into the Unit for care as they will not be able to release any midwives to attend me at home.

I have great reservations in coming into a Unit for labour and birth when it will already be stretched. I cannot foresee how my care or the care of the other women in confinement at the time would be better served with my presence on an already busy ward. In addition, I cannot see how it will make the lives of extremely busy midwives less complicated or the care which they provide more effective with one more labouring woman to whom to attend. From my limited knowledge of how maternity care works, the outcomes of births are best when there is one midwife to one woman. It certainly does not sound like my additional presence on an already busy ward would provide the best outcome for me if I were to attend a Unit which cannot spare a midwife.

I understand that it is Government policy that the NHS should support women who intend to birth at home. In a House of Commons debate (20 Dec, 2000) Lord Hunt of King's Heath stated: 'The Government want (sic) to ensure that, where it is clinically appropriate, if a woman wishes to have a home birth she should receive the appropriate support from the health service. At the end of the day, it must be the woman's choice'.

Additionally, in 2006 the Nursing and Midwifery Council clarified the midwife's professional responsibility (NMC Circular 8-2006) as follows:
'Whilst an employed midwife has a contractual duty to her employer, she also has a professional duty to provide midwifery care for women. A midwife would be professionally accountable for any decision to leave a woman in labour at home unattended, thus placing her at risk at a time when competent midwifery care is essential.'

It goes on to state that 'should a conflict arise between service provision and a woman's choice for place of birth, a midwife has a duty of care to attend her. This is no different to a woman who has walked into a maternity unit to receive hospital care. Withdrawal of a home birth service is no less significant to women than withdrawal of services for a hospital birth.'

I therefore expect a midwife to attend me at home when I call the Unit stating that I am in labour. I wish to stress that should the Midwifery Unit of ---- NHS Trust deliberately fail to provide a midwife when I go into labour and anything untoward occurs to my baby or me, the Trust would have left itself wide open to legal action, and a considerable amount of negative publicity. I can assure you that my family, with the support of AIMS, would vigorously pursue such action as we shall hold you and the Director of Midwifery personally responsible for this failure.

Your midwives have been aware of my intention, in writing, to give birth at home since - 2008 and verbally since --. I have no intention of taking the additional risks of a transfer then a hospital birth in order to alleviate the Trust?s staff shortages. I am, however, prepared to transfer to hospital should a medical complication arise. I suggest that, if your hospital is short of midwives, you contact the Independent Midwives Association and arrange an extra-contractual referral.

I look forward to a written response to this letter in due course.

Sincerely,

Boobz · 13/08/2008 10:59

Thanks Kiskidee and Monkies for your letters. I'm really hoping my hospital will be more supportive and I won't need to write these letters.

I'm about to order some books from Amazon as I am seeing the midwife next Tuesday for my booking in appointment. If people who have already read books and had a home birth are reading here - what would be your top 5 (doesn't have to be specifically about home birthing of course - I am new to everything!)

A

OP posts:
BoobzsBF · 13/08/2008 11:18

Hi everyone, BoobzsBF here as the name would suggest!
Right firstly, as someone with absolutely no experience of childbirth whatsoever you have to let me off my earlier kneejerk reaction...People like me really haven't got a clue about any of this and I suppose we just have some preconceived and outdated notions.
Secondly you (Boobz) convinced me quite a while ago that this is the best thing for you to do, but it's been quite funny watching you get into such a tizz about it...Sorry, will stop winding you up now!
You know you've always got mine and DH's full support. Love you lots and good luck to everyone else! x

Boobz · 13/08/2008 11:38

Just to fill people in, that's my BF (best friend, rather than breast feeding - ahem), and she's wonderful. I know that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about my decision to have a HB (with the exception of my husband...) but actually I did feel it was important that my BF really understood why I thought this was the best possible way to have a child -- even for my first child!

So I directed her here to see all these wonderful stories and posts (after badgering her with my reasoning for 3 hours last night, jealously watching her guzzle a bottle of crisp white wine... grrr).

And I was not in a tizz, thank you very much, I am just hormonal.

OP posts:
IceCube · 13/08/2008 14:35

Ha ha, i thought BF was boy friend, then got confused when DH was mentioned, I'll put it down to pregnancy brain.

YumMum22 · 13/08/2008 17:08

Hi everyone!

I also is hopeing for a homebirth after my previous horrific hospital birth. I am 31+3 today.

I am having troubles getting it though as my hospital isnt offering homebirth at the moment as they are short of midwives. I have spoken to the SOM at my hospital but shes being no help at all. She says she is not saying no i cant have a homebirth but that i should know that if i call in labour and theres no one to be sent out to me then i will have to go in...

i am sick with worries and cried buckets as i really dont want to give birth at this hospital as i had my DS there march 2007 and promised myself never again.

I spoke to Beverley Beech of AIMS and she offerd to write some letters on my behave to Chief Executive etc and i will be doing the same.

I also spoke to someone today at Local Supervising Authority Midwifery office and he seemed very intrested and looks like he will do his best to help.

I am just soooooo worried i will not get to have my homebirth.

IceCube · 13/08/2008 18:40

Yum yum - stand firm, reading other peoples posts it sounds like a few trusts put up resistance at first almost as if they know that will put some people off and save them bothering to offer the proper service.

But you have the right to have a home birth and they probably know it. Might be worth using one of the template letters to send to the SOM stating that you know your rights and expect to be attended at home.

Why do so many hospitals make life so stressful for us?

kiskidee · 13/08/2008 19:03

YumYum, if funds allow, would you hire a doula? She can also help with these types of issues now.

YumMum22 · 13/08/2008 19:17

icecube will be sending a letter to the som sing the template i think that should work. its really anoying as i have 2 other hospitals around 3and4 miles from my house who are offering homebirth but im not in their borough so they cant come to me.

kiskidee i did look into about hiring a doula and an independant MW using our saving for a house but thought not..

kiskidee · 13/08/2008 20:02

would you be able to hire a trainee doula? they cost a lot less. I have a trainee doula myself and knowing that she will be there with knowledge and the know-how to advocate for my birth wishes, has taken a lot of the stress out of the obstacles I have faced. It is great to know that I can speak as much as I have to about my frustrations and I know that she actually is listening. A trainee may also accept payments over a few months as they are also getting valuable experience out of having you as a client.

foxythesnowfox · 13/08/2008 20:30

Sorry for butting in - can't resist a HB thread

Yummum - just really wanted to reiterate what Icecube said. I'm in SW London and had to switch care when my hospital wasn't doing HBs. It meant changing MW team, but was pretty straight forward and unchallenged. Definately get a second opinion on this one, because it doesn't sound right to me.

Sometimes much depends on who you speak to on the day. I've certainly found that one MW (in the same team) says one thing, another says something different.

Dig your heels in and get the birth you want. You won't regret it. Good luck to you, and the rest of the HBers on here. They are fab!

Anglepoise · 13/08/2008 21:48

That's fab news!

I'm still here, still reading, and still no idea whether I'm going to get the HB I want. I'm 35+2 today, moved house two weeks ago, registered with the GP a week and a half ago, but have yet to hear from the hospital so haven't been able to speak to anyone about HB at all. Also today we found out that the house we were due to move into (living with my parents at the moment) has fallen through, so I currently have no home to have a home birth in! On the plus side, if I do end up giving birth here (parents' home) then it's where my dad was born, where DH and I got together (at a party) and where DH and I got married, so it has sentimental ties

Swipe left for the next trending thread